Sheepfoot experiment.

One thing I learned here about the British fondness of sheepfoot over clip or spear points is the lack of a hunting tradition among common folk there. Jack Black Jack Black mentioned this in a thread I forget the location of.

I think that thread is actually another one of Carl's :) I believe there is a link to it in the Lambsfoot thread :thumbsup:

Culture may indeed have a lot to do with it. I haven't hunted decades, but I love to fish. I'm sure if you went way back, the English and most European peasants didn't hunt. Inmost places hunting was the prerogative of the nobles, and if I'm not mistaken, a lowly peasant found with one of his Lordship's deer was a hanging offense.

Given the primitive frontier of the colonies in North America, hunting was needed to avoid starving. Guns became a must have item as was knives suited for skinning game, and fighting hostile Indians when needed. Thus a clipped or spear point that would penetrate hide and body of whatever was needed to penetrate. I think the culture of medieval England would have been such that the nobles would have 'discouraged' peasants from pointy weapons or even projectile weapons like longbows and crossbows.



A vastly different culture to be sure! England has about a thousand year head start on us. When the Magna Carta was being signed, the new world hadn't even been discovered yet. When Shakespeare was writing plays, the first colonists were hacking out a settlement at Jamestown. A heck a difference.

You are right Carl, even a rabbit would get you hanged in some circumstances :eek: The nobles didn't mind us carrying pointy weapons and projectile weapons when we were fighting wars for them though :rolleyes:

If you look back at the earliest knives, there are far more straight-edged blades than anything else. Here's a couple from the Iron Age :thumbsup:

xBqQ5cJ.jpg


JtpnsQz.jpg


Lots more similar discussion in the (indexed) Lambsfoot thread :thumbsup:
 
I'm quite fond of my Vic florists knife. Very light, wonderful action and easy as can be to sharpen.
For my day to day needs a Sheepsfoot/Lambsfoot/Wharncliffe is all I need. I don't cut food or skin animals, and outside that I've never found a need for a clip, drop or spearpoint. I love a good clip, but totally unnecessary.
 
Good analysis Carl. I believe the reason spear and clip points are more popular is aesthetics. They simply look better. I was of the same opinion and probably still am. My recent acquisition of the 2019 Ironwood Lambs Foot notwithstanding my only other straight edge blade was a GEC 25 with a sheeps foot blade. Like you found out, cardboard ran from that thing and the straight edge makes it very easy to sharpen. Yet, I still sold it. It was form over function. It was fugly. I should reacquire one.View attachment 1100445

One reason I can think of that spear and clip points are popular is; when the tip is on the opposite side from the spine as on a sheepsfoot or wharncliffe the thicknese of the bladestock is at its thinnest where the tip is.

Even though sheeps foot tip is a more obtuse point when viewing the flat of the knife, when looking down at the spine is very thin at the point because of tip location.
 
Thing is, I like all blades really except the Spey. I don't like to get tied down to just one pattern or blade so it is interesting and rewarding to change your usual carries and discover new areas for appreciation. So too with the blade, straight edges - Wharncliffe, Lambfoot, Sheepfoot have a lot of utility and they don't exactly look ugly either ;) I had a SAK Florist that was a present from a former member here, but unfortunately I dropped it somewhere and the Arctic winter and spring mire engulfed it:( Would like to get another though.. A small Sheepfoot as in the case of the GEC 25 is a robust but compact carry, some may not take to its rather short bloated look but it's a credible user, prefer knives without EO notches but not sure the Sheepfoot came without it?

v1JkmiM.jpg
 
I think that thread is actually another one of Carl's :) I believe there is a link to it in the Lambsfoot thread :thumbsup:



You are right Carl, even a rabbit would get you hanged in some circumstances :eek: The nobles didn't mind us carrying pointy weapons and projectile weapons when we were fighting wars for them though :rolleyes:

If you look back at the earliest knives, there are far more straight-edged blades than anything else. Here's a couple from the Iron Age :thumbsup:

xBqQ5cJ.jpg


JtpnsQz.jpg


Lots more similar discussion in the (indexed) Lambsfoot thread :thumbsup:
Interesting post, thanks.
Straight edges are probably easier to make than curvy. Wondering if that is why they are found on early blades.

There is so much to learn.
 
The Victorinox Gardner is a great affordable knife which they still offer today.
I used mine quite a bit as a teenager as a utility knife for various craft type projects.

I know on my 34OT the sheep's foot was the most used, in part because it was just a handy blade but also because it sat very high making the knife uncomfortable to hold unless it was the blade I was using.
 
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IMG_6006.jpg
Thing is, I like all blades really except the Spey. I don't like to get tied down to just one pattern or blade so it is interesting and rewarding to change your usual carries and discover new areas for appreciation. So too with the blade, straight edges - Wharncliffe, Lambfoot, Sheepfoot have a lot of utility and they don't exactly look ugly either ;) I had a SAK Florist that was a present from a former member here, but unfortunately I dropped it somewhere and the Arctic winter and spring mire engulfed it:( Would like to get another though.. A small Sheepfoot as in the case of the GEC 25 is a robust but compact carry, some may not take to its rather short bloated look but it's a credible user, prefer knives without EO notches but not sure the Sheepfoot came without it?

v1JkmiM.jpg
 
What always gets me, looking at the "Arabia" collection, is the large percentage of Congress patterns. I get a serious case of the "wants"...
 
I spent a lot of time staring at the photos of the old pocket knives of the steamship Arabia. Sunk in the middle of the 19th century, it was a time capsule of the mid 1800's as far as pocket knives go. Being buried in the mud for over a century did a very good job of preserving the knives, some looking like they could be put back into service today with a little oiling and a touch on a stone.

The one thing that stood out me was, the large numbers of sheep foot/wharncliff blades. The medium size single blade sheep foot seemed to be the most common with the spear point being right up there with it. I'm curious by nature, and being a hopeless romantic of the past, I decided on an experiment of my own.

I bought a Victoriox florist knife at a gun show for my own use. I dropped it in my pocket a few months ago and had been using as my main pocket knife. I was curious as to how the sheep foot would work out on an everyday basis. I do know that with my old Buck 301 stockman I carried for 25 years, the sheep foot was my most used blade for general cutting. The strait edge was very easy to sharpen, the blade has a strong yet fine point, and it humps up there so it's easy to pinch open.

It's been an eye opener. If I say sort of, it's only because it didn't surprise me how nice it was for an everyday carry pocket knife. I was using a Case mini copperhead for a while, so I wasn't too surprised. But the Victorinox was even nicer. The wider full flat blade came down to a very very fine edge that was a thin chisel grind. The final blade edge is so thin that it's like an Opinel, only without the fiddley do-it-yourself finishing that sort of works. The Victoriox florist knife is a slicer and dicer on par with a freshly sharpened Opinel, weather proof, built with real metal liners and nylon scales for a very rugged yet light weight unit. A unit that cuts like the dickens.

I've found the Victorinox sheep foot to be great for opening packages, cutting anything a regular pocket knife would be used for, and able to be scrubbed down in the kitchen sink with no problem. The thing to get used to is how fast the blade goes through stuff. Be careful to keep fingers out of the way. I whittled on some good hard dry Texas cedar with it and the edge held up good. Jute twine and cardboard were childs play for the knife. Breaking down a large cardboard box to fit in the recycle bin was like the proverbial knife through warm butter. A fresh bagel was easy.

One nice thing job the slip joint with a sheep foot; if you have to press down with the point to make a starter hole for a wood screw, or pierce a plastic package or seal of some sort, the fact of the knife being held at a 45 degree angle to bring the fine tip to play, puts pressure on the blade in the direction of the opening the blade so the dynamic forces keep the blade from closing as good as if it were a lock blade. Using the point on a sheepfoot/wharncliffe is easier and safer than a clip or spearpoint because of the Ange you us the point at. Maybe thats why they were so popular in the old day. The sheep foot blade on a pocket knife is actually way more versatile than you would think from it's shape. But maybe that's why our English cousins are so fond of the lambs foot knife that is almost a trademark of the British cutlery industry of the past. All those old British military clasp knives had the sheepsfoot blade they saw some very hard service for The Empire in some far flung harsh places.

I've been very impressed with this Victorinox florist, but then Victorinox makes a good product. It's even available is some choices of colors that can't get lost very easy in the woods or crowded work bench. I've got the standard red, but you can get yellow, pink, green, blue, and even purple. I'm going to California again in April, and I think the granddaughter is going to want one, and purple is a favorite color of hers. She's already got a Victorinox classic in purple, a Fenix E01 in purple. I think there may be a purple Victorinox florist in her future.

Oh, I found out that it opens up fish bellies very good on the San Gabriel river as well. Did I mention that it cuts like the dickens?

I just may have to get an old British clasp knife!
Carl, thanks for publishing the results of your experiment. I found your experiences to be very relevant, since I've had my eye on the Vic florist model (and the Vic Daypackers, that I think are usually clip blades) for quite a while now. The online photos I see seem to show that the sheepsfoot blade is actually quite a bit shorter than the handle itself (I think vendors always state that the knife is 4" closed). Is that correct?

- GT
 
Victorinox florist is awesome little pocket knife,inexpensive and excellent quality,razor sharp and easy to sharpen it,im getting Otter Messer sheepsfoot in stainless or carbon
....
 
Carl, thanks for publishing the results of your experiment. I found your experiences to be very relevant, since I've had my eye on the Vic florist model (and the Vic Daypackers, that I think are usually clip blades) for quite a while now. The online photos I see seem to show that the sheepsfoot blade is actually quite a bit shorter than the handle itself (I think vendors always state that the knife is 4" closed). Is that correct?

- GT

Yes, from a purely aesthetic standpoint, it's a little off balanced looking. But the overall package performs soooo well, that it's a very easy knife to fall in love with. The handle is slim, and carries very well in a pocket, but the cigar shape fits the hand so well in a variety of grips. And if you need to really glomp down on it to cut through a branch out in the yard, it's just enough length to really grip hard.

I avoided them for so long as I really didn't care for the looks, but at the gun show it was on a table with some other well used pocket knives and priced so low, it was a must-buy. Now if it got lost, I'd buy another one in a heart beat. It's worked so well at everything from slicing an apple to cutting bait, to breaking down a box for recycle. Only now after using it, I understand why the shepfoot was so popular in the 1800's for working folks. And it's so light weight you can forget it's there.

Go get one. You'll love it. :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
 
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A thoughtful treatise, based on real-world usage Carl - thanks!
I am glad you also mentioned the Lamb Foot. There is a lot about them that matches the Sheepfoot's versatility. I am always amazed that the Lamb Foot is hardly ever mentioned in the American lexicon.

Charlie we need a run of lambfoot blades. So few produced outside of England. Hint, Hint.

When I go to place a blade in my pocket most of the time it’s a wharncliffe, sheep or lamb foot just find as a single blade suits most of my uses. If I hunted perhaps a clip would be more useful.
 
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As Jack Black already basically mentioned, a seax is kind of a big ol' sheepsfoot. I think ease of manufacture and sharpening had a lot to do with that.

european-seax.jpg
Yes...
I should clarify what I meant.
A few have commented that there are big "Bowie-type" sheepfoot blades out there.
I recognize this. What I was thinking when I posted that was context. In the early American frontier, no one had large sheepfoot blades on their belts.
Typically Bowies or other large clip points.
 
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Yes...
I should clarity what I meant.
A few have commented that there are big "Bowie-type" sheepfoot blades out there.
I recognize this. What I was thinking when I posted that was context. In the early American frontier, no one had large sheepfoot blades on their belts.
Typically Bowies or other large clip points.
I was just BS'ing. It was a good excuse for a picture of a seax.
 
Another popular sheep's foot is the Klein wire stripper knife.Extremely popular with cable man,telephone techs etc.I picked a cheap version on a impulse great carver/utility blade
 
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