spyderco manix 2. why is the lock so hard? and why is it made out of plastic?

Personally, I admire the design and all the engineering that went into it, but it's just not as smooth or easy to release as I'd like. The range of motion required to disengage the BBL is far less than the Collins Bolt Lock or Axis, so I can understand why the spring resistance is as high as it is, but I guess that means I just prefer those locks.

For my money, the Compression lock is the best option.
 
Sal, my feeling is the ridges on the covers need to be sharper to afford a better grip due to the stiffness of the spring tension. Its fine when your hands are dry but a little bit of sweat, grease, water etc can radically affect one's ability to close the knife easily. In comparison to the liner and compression lock which are easy to operate even under those circumstances. That's my two cents on it...

Small gripping surface + slick gripping surface + strong spring tension + lubricant of whatever kind = tricky

Just thinking out loud here, is it not possible to make the cage out of G-10? That has excellent traction and is very tough, durable as we all know.

Hi Sogflash, Four_shore, and others that dislike the cage.

Like Yab, it would be more constructive to know more specifically what features turn you off.

As far as the materials go, I think we've been using new advanced materials for a long time. No one had ever used many of the polymers and steels before we brought them to the market. We created the cage because there were complaints about unlocking the naked ball. As Yab said, a great deal of time and funds were spent to develop the caged ball. It's not an Axis (rod / scales) or an Arc (rotating rod), etc. It is a different mechanism and different engineering. We've had very few problems with the lock, which has been out for a few years with thousands of knives in the field.

Need more input. If you "just don't like plastic", or you want "less spring tension", I can understand. But we feel the caged ball is a safe, reliable, self adjusting lock. It's different from other locks. It doesn't infringe on anyones patents, in fact it has it's own patents.

Are you questioning whether or not it's a good lock or are you just expressing personal preferences?

sal
 
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The lock on mine works great, i love this knife!
Here's some pics of my cheap transparent plastic M2.

IMAG0587.jpg


IMAG0582.jpg


IMAG0590-1.jpg


IMAG0596.jpg
 
the manix 2 is my favorite folding knife right now, I need to make that clear.

like others have pointed out, being able to get a better grip on the lock would be nice. maybe by removing more of the handle material around the lock and making sharper edges on the lock. I prefer to unlock knives with just my thumb.

being able to see through the lock is interesting, but I have to say that it gives it a cheaper look. it also looks like it has some slight discoloration after being used for a while, and that's not attractive.
 
I would agree with the post below, and add that a bevel in the G10 around the cage would also be a plus.

Sal, my feeling is the ridges on the covers need to be sharper to afford a better grip due to the stiffness of the spring tension. Its fine when your hands are dry but a little bit of sweat, grease, water etc can radically affect one's ability to close the knife easily. In comparison to the liner and compression lock which are easy to operate even under those circumstances. That's my two cents on it...

Small gripping surface + slick gripping surface + strong spring tension + lubricant of whatever kind = tricky

Just thinking out loud here, is it not possible to make the cage out of G-10? That has excellent traction and is very tough, durable as well know.
 
When you use a new material or do something that has never been done before, history will be needed to be absolutely sure of results. Lab testing only goes so far. Durability has not been a problem to date. We have more metal parts fail than plastic parts. Modern plastics are tough. "feeling cheap" may be a false perception and one might need more education.

sal


again, i have plenty of education on the griptilian but absolutely can't stand the feel of the handles. they feel cheap and brittle. they may not actually be but the initially impressions is that they are.

through my experiences polymer hasn't failed but i've heard others say that it easily can.
since they protrude from the g-10 it seems fair to assume they could easily crack or break if the knife is dropped.
you're the expert though and if you say they're up to the challenge than i have to take your word for it.
perhaps i'll purchase another manix and put it to the test.

thanks
 
We only have about 3 or 4 years in the real world for the "plastic" cages. Problems have been relatively nil. We keep watching as longevity of the product is high on our values.

I don't know what kind of plastic Benchmade is using, but I would guess it's up there in quality. We rarely get a FRN knife back with handle problems and we have millions of them out in daily use.

sal
 
i actually like the feel of frn. benchmade uses something called noryl gtx which honestly feels like cheap brittle garbage. thus the reason people are willing to spend a hundred bucks on custom g-10 scales for them.

the gtx can probably withstand more than people give it credit for but for what they charge for a griptilian...most agree g-10 should've been used.

you're the man sal and that being said i'm willing to give the manix an honest shot. simply assuming that something isn't durable by feeling it is wrong (as you mentioned).

as far as benchmade...those scales make the knife feel like a cheap toy and i won't be purchasing another until they actually give us what we pay for.

ps i just bought my second m390 para 2 from bento, excellent product!
 
I agree, I sold all my plastic knives, even though they are good knives the feel of plastic makes me just not enjoy carrying it

i actually like the feel of frn. benchmade uses something called noryl gtx which honestly feels like cheap brittle garbage. thus the reason people are willing to spend a hundred bucks on custom g-10 scales for them.

the gtx can probably withstand more than people give it credit for but for what they charge for a griptilian...most agree g-10 should've been used.

you're the man sal and that being said i'm willing to give the manix an honest shot. simply assuming that something isn't durable by feeling it is wrong (as you mentioned).

as far as benchmade...those scales make the knife feel like a cheap toy and i won't be purchasing another until they actually give us what we pay for.

ps i just bought my second m390 para 2 from bento, excellent product!
 
I can say that the button for the manix does not feel cheap. It functions very well. As far as the rest of the desing; it seems like it works and will hold up. Theere is a fellow member on spyderco forums that had an issue with his manix xl though. I am not sure of the details on that. I think the cage broke and the ball fell out. I personally do not see any issue with the manix and the plastic button.

as far as menchmade; I hate the plastic like material they use. I think there are 3 different materials used. Feels super cheap. As far as Spyderco. FRN seems to do well. I only find it acceptable if the knives have liners. I do not or will not buy either. I have 3 FRN knives from spyderco and they all went to my son after blade swaps. It just feels cheap to me. FRN would be my first choice If I had no g-10/cf options
 
When I hold and look at the Manix 2, one of the furthest things from my mind is "cheap."
 
Tangent...my hunch is that the reason the Noryl GTX on that other company's knives feels "cheap" has more to do with the fact that it's a hollow molded part rather than a flat piece of material, like the FRN used in the Delica/Endura line. The hollow handles change how it sounds and feels a lot...at least that's my theory. :)
 
When I hold and look at the Manix 2, one of the furthest things from my mind is "cheap."

no one said the manix itself feels cheap. the polymer tabs/cage feels like it could be easily broken if the knife was dropped (which does happen from time to time)...read before you post.
 
FYI,

We'll be having a meeting on the comments from this thread. So I'd like to thank you for the input. We probably won't go to a metal cage, metal is not elastic enough to install the ball bearing. But there were many useful comments that we'll look at.

"feeling" cheap is in the feeling of the person having the feeling and not necessarliy true that it is cheap. I used to think that the modern plastics felt cheap. But after buying them (not cheap) and testing them, my opinion has changed. While there are still "cheap" plastics, there are also "expensive" plastics that work well.

Just like steels, it's become hard to easily tell the good from the cheap.

sal
 
FYI,

We'll be having a meeting on the comments from this thread. So I'd like to thank you for the input. We probably won't go to a metal cage, metal is not elastic enough to install the ball bearing. But there were many useful comments that we'll look at.

"feeling" cheap is in the feeling of the person having the feeling and not necessarliy true that it is cheap. I used to think that the modern plastics felt cheap. But after buying them (not cheap) and testing them, my opinion has changed. While there are still "cheap" plastics, there are also "expensive" plastics that work well.

Just like steels, it's become hard to easily tell the good from the cheap.

sal

This is why I love Spyderco. Thanks for listening Sal.
I personally like the Manix2 and own a few, though they are currently eclipsed by the Para2...
 
I'm no engineer, but I'd guess the cage needs to be both strong and flexible, so the ball can be "popped" into it. I'd also suspect that a natural lubricity would be something of a plus. The type of polymer Spyderco usess seem better suited to that than metal, or the hard polymer resin used in G-10. Not to mention that the glass fiber component of G-10 might cause wear on the ball bearing. That said, I sure don't think it would hurt sales any to make it an opaque black rather than clear. Might even ease the fears of those who think their friends will laugh at them for carrying a knife with plastic parts.
 
This is why I love Spyderco. Thanks for listening Sal.
I personally like the Manix2 and own a few, though they are currently eclipsed by the Para2...


i agree, the fact that they listen and don't act childish like some companies when there's potential constructive criticism.
sal, you said it best "feeling cheap" is very much only a matter of opinion. i'm not suggesting a metal cage but perhaps something that will protect it from damage caused by dropping. the cage could probably be flush with the handle (depending on how much that affects open/closing).

that, imo would be the solution.
these are merely suggestions though, i'm positive that most people are more than happy with their manix 2's

thanks again for caring about your customers..

dan
 
FYI,

We'll be having a meeting on the comments from this thread. So I'd like to thank you for the input. We probably won't go to a metal cage, metal is not elastic enough to install the ball bearing. But there were many useful comments that we'll look at.

"feeling" cheap is in the feeling of the person having the feeling and not necessarliy true that it is cheap. I used to think that the modern plastics felt cheap. But after buying them (not cheap) and testing them, my opinion has changed. While there are still "cheap" plastics, there are also "expensive" plastics that work well.

Just like steels, it's become hard to easily tell the good from the cheap.

sal

Mr. Glesser,

I read this forum far more than I post here but I did post in this thread due to an actual qualm with an otherwise very intriguing couple of knives (Manix2 & [especially] M2XL). Whatever decision you come to regarding the material or coloration of the ball cage, it is very heartening to read that you have taken the concerns of a few knife enthusiasts under consideration to the extent that a formal discussion will occur. My Spyderco holdings are modest (with an additional 3 sprints pre-ordered). However, I do appreciate what I already possess. The PM2 gives me a big, dumb grin every time I put it in my pocket or have the opportunity to pull it out for use and the Stretch spent a solid 8 months in my pocket after purchase before getting bumped. With far more options for pocket carry than time on this earth will allow, your well thought out designs will no doubt get an inordinate share.

So my small criticism stands but if nothing changes, I have many more options in your line. Thanks for taking light criticisms in a constructive way. :thumbup::thumbup:
 
"feeling cheap" makes as much sense (to me) as something "sounding grape".

That being said, I've been reading this thread and thinking about the various bits of criticism and taking out my M2 and checking to see if I have the same issues.

I did discover that the grippy-ness of the cage/button is almost nil when wet (I did not know that). But then I checked a couple of other Spydies with different locks and found that both the compression lock and liner lock models lose a significant amount of grip as well. Maybe not as bad as the M2 (Ti frame locks seem to get as slick as the M2) but there is definitely a big difference in grip before/after being wet.

It seems like (to my non-engineering brain) if the button were flared out just slightly more (at the rear) and given some slightly more aggressive jimping or checkering, this would not be a problem.

As for the discoloration of the clear button... I don't see this as an issue. most of the discoloration (yellowing) in clear plastics occurs in heavy UV exposuren- like headlights.

I do wonder however if it will take RIT dye... I'm going to give it a try and report back. I don't see the translucence of the cage as being that beneficial to be honest. I think it's more for cool-factor.
 
Not trying to start anything here, but I'd love to see/hear anything more about broken cages from knives being dropped. The only example I can find is over on Spyderco's forums where VanHash was torture testing his (over-strikes) and the cage had already been boiled (to RIT dye it - that actually answers my question) and he questioned whether or not the boiling had caused damage.

http://www.spyderco.com/forums/showthread.php?p=665133

I can't find another example of a broken cage anywhere with google, and I'd be very interested in reading the background on one. Just looking at it, the cage barely protrudes from the scales (one of the reasons for the lack of grip), so for a fall to break the cage, it would have to have been a heck of a distance with some serious shock.
 
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