Spyderco Paysan - lock slip?

[Alberta Hunter]

Huh? They sent the guy an entirely new knife $800 MSRP knife in exchange for the one he didn't like/complained about. That seems pretty "concerned" and responsive to me.

They sent him a replacement that's even worse than the one he sent in due to defect!

The issues with the Paysan are not limited to this Customer. There have been many who have locks that
are sub par and quite possibly dangerous. It's easy to criticize someone when it's not your money or frustration at stake.

 

[sgt1372]

They sent him a replacement that's even worse than the one he sent in due to defect!

According to the complainant, who sounds like someone who just cannot be satisfied. Have you seen/held the knife in question? No one here has. So, there's no way to verify the complaint. If the 2nd one was "worse" than the 1st one, he should have just returned it to Spyderco and asked for an account credit instead of saying that he's going to trash the knife and then expect Spyderco to give him another one for free after he's ruined it.

That's ridiculous!

The issues with the Paysan are not limited to this Customer. There have been many who have locks that are sub par and quite possibly dangerous. It's easy to criticize someone when it's not your money or frustration at stake.

I bought one and it wasn't THAT bad.

As I said in my post/review of the Paysan, there is NO lock-stick in the "classic" sense and I saw no possibility of any lock slip. I traded mine for a Kershaw Tilt, which I liked better, but there was nothing WRONG w/the Paysan that I purchased. I also own a Tropen and an Ikuchi that people like to complain about as well and I don't think there's anything WRONG w/those knives either.

But, if you don't like these knives, just don't buy them (or sell them to someone else who will appreciate them). Problem solved.

 

[Alberta Hunter]

According to the complainant, who sounds like someone who just cannot be satisfied. Have you seen/held the knife in question? No one here has. So, there's no way to verify the complaint. If the 2nd one was "worse" than the 1st one, he should have just returned it to Spyderco and asked for an account credit instead of saying that he's going to trash the knife and then expect Spyderco to give him another one for free.

That's ridiculous!



I bought one and it wasn't THAT bad.

As I said in my post/review of the Paysan, there is NO lock-stick in the "classic" sense and I saw no possibility of any lock slip. I traded mine for a Kershaw Tilt, which I liked better, but there was nothing WRONG w/the Paysan that I purchased. I also own a Tropen and an Ikuchi that people like to complain about as well and I don't think there's anything WRONG w/those knives either.

But, if you don't like these knives, then just don't buy them.

Obviously I did not handle the knife in question- and neither did you. I'm not going to call someone
a liar and I'm going to take them at their word until proven otherwise.

So, since you received one that "wasn't THAT bad" then to you that means that anyone claiming they
received one that performs worse or is defective is a liar? Maybe go to youtube and search:"Spyderco Paysan Lock Rock" and you will see that not everyone is lying about this. Or maybe you think that anyone who complains about a lock that doesn't lock is just a Whiner who should shut up and just be thankful that Spyderco makes knives at all...

 

[sgt1372]

Obviously I did not handle the knife in question- and neither did you. I'm not going to call someone
a liar and I'm going to take them at their word until proven otherwise.

So, since you received one that "wasn't THAT bad" then to you that means that anyone claiming they
received one that performs worse or is defective is a liar? Maybe go to youtube and search:"Spyderco Paysan Lock Rock" and you will see that not everyone is lying about this. Or maybe you think that anyone who complains about a lock that doesn't lock is just a Whiner who should shut up and just be thankful that Spyderco makes knives at all...

Don't be ridiculous.

Spyderco addressed the customer's complaint by issuing him a new knife. What more do you expect them to do? If he didn't like the replacement, he should have just returned that too.

He's entitled to complain about a "bad" product experience but he did just end up whining about it and he gets no sympathy from me.

End of conversation on my part. Go ahead, rant on.

 

[Alberta Hunter]

Don't be ridiculous.

Spyderco addressed the customer's complaint by issuing him a new knife. What more do you expect them to do? If he didn't like the replacement, he should have just returned that too.

He's entitled to complain about a "bad" product experience but he did just end up whining about it and he gets no sympathy from me.

End of conversation on my part. Go ahead, rant on.

Rant on? You are the one calling people all sorts of disrespectful names and making claims
about individuals and their knives that you know nothing about. Btw, I don't really think he
was looking for your sympathy- I think he just wanted a knife that functions as it is supposed
to. But glad to see that you hold yourself in such high acclaim.

 

[ReignChaser]

I don't really think he was looking for your sympathy- I think he just wanted a knife that functions as it is supposed
to.

But then continued to tell us he'll turn his current one into garbage and then return it for another. I think that crosses a line.

 

[Alberta Hunter]

But then continued to tell us he'll turn his current one into garbage and then return it for another. I think that crosses a line.

I do as well. I never defended him for that but I do think that the man is entitled to some frustration
when he sent a knife in for a specific issue and they sent him one that's even worse than the one he
sent back in the first place.

Where I work, if we send something out wrong I make 100% certain that what we send back out
is double checked (sometimes I triple check myself) because it takes a long time to build a reputation
and a short time to destroy it. Spyderco must know that there is an issue with these knives so they
should have had someone go through their inventory and send out a pristine example that completely
lacks the problems the first one was sent in for. Instead, I would bet that they just grabbed a new one
off the pile and shipped it out without ever putting eyes on it. On a knife as expensive as the Paysan, I
think that's terrible.

I was among a lot of other people who were going to buy the Paysan but decided it just wasn't worth
the risk after watching the reviews on it. I'm sure that there are some people who have these knives
and they are perfect. I'm also willing to bet that there are a lot of people who have these knives and don't
even realize there's any problem with them because they are only ever going to be fondled and looked
at. But for the people who actually use these knives, they will want to know if they have this issue before
a blade closes across the tops of their fingers when they work the knife through some tough material.

That's just my opinion though.

 

[Perhaps_OCD?]

I got mine yesterday. It had hair in the handle, an uncentered blade, and tiny chips in the edge. The vendor swears it came straight from Spyderco and offered to provide proof; I have no reason to doubt them. I just ordered some cut proof gloves to test the lock out of curiosity. Either way it's going back to Spyderco, and I'm willing to bet I won't be paying for the shipping.

 

[Perhaps_OCD?]

Just confirmed, mine also has lock slip. My educated guess is that they all do to some extent, and that it’s either due to the insanely thin lock bar, and location of the relief, or exacerbated by it. I only have a few other frame locks (just got into knife collecting this year), but look at the Paysan compared to these ZT’s... even the tiny 0450 has a beefier lock. Yes, engineers, I know this isn't the only factor. I'm just saying, Spyderco has a track record of not knowing what the hell they're doing with frame locks and the Paysan is further evidence.

 

[Qbert_72]

Just confirmed, mine also has lock slip. My educated guess is that they all do to some extent, and that it’s due to the insanely thin lock bar. I only have a few other frame locks (just got into knife collecting this year), but look at the Paysan compared to these ZT’s... even the tiny 0450 has a beefier lock.

Crying shame. Really wanted to love this one
Swing and a big time miss.

 

[Stang Bladeworks]

Just confirmed, mine also has lock slip. My educated guess is that they all do to some extent, and that it’s due to the insanely thin lock bar. I only have a few other frame locks (just got into knife collecting this year), but look at the Paysan compared to these ZT’s... even the tiny 0450 has a beefier lock.

I cant say if they all have slip, mine did and it was quite bad. I can say that I dont think its the fault of the thin lock. My military has a very thin liner, much smaller than the paysan frame and the lockup is very solid. The integral construction does limit the amount of lock bar tension that can be applied. The steel insert may not be helping either. If the geometry is slightly off I feel it is less forgiving than a ti lockup. I agree this is a real shame. Hopefully they recall the existing ones and come out with a whole new revision that corrects the issues and maybe even adds a hollow grind. I love spyderco but alot of people myself included were let down by this.

 

[Perhaps_OCD?]

I cant say if they all have slip, mine did and it was quite bad. I can say that I dont think its the fault of the thin lock. My military has a very thin liner, much smaller than the paysan frame and the lockup is very solid. The integral construction does limit the amount of lock bar tension that can be applied. The steel insert may not be helping either. If the geometry is slightly off I feel it is less forgiving than a ti lockup. I agree this is a real shame. Hopefully they recall the existing ones and come out with a whole new revision that corrects the issues and maybe even adds a hollow grind. I love spyderco but alot of people myself included were let down by this.

I hope they revise the design as well. I may have misspoke by saying "thin". I was more referring to the lock bar width rather than the thickness. However, you are likely much more experienced in this area than I am.

Spyderco responded to my email about an hour ago and told me I should return it to the vendor for an exchange. I asked them to let me know if I can send it in, wait for them to fix the design, and have the knife replaced... or to let me know if they have no plans to fix the design. I'm interested to see how they respond.

 

[Alberta Hunter]

I hope they revise the design as well. I may have misspoke by saying "thin". I was more referring to the lock bar width rather than the thickness. However, you are likely much more experienced in this area than I am.

Spyderco responded to my email about an hour ago and told me I should return it to the vendor for an exchange. I asked them to let me know if I can send it in, wait for them to fix the design, and have the knife replaced... or to let me know if they have no plans to fix the design. I'm interested to see how they respond.

So, Spyderco doesn't want it back? It sounds like they just want you to exchange it at the vendor so the Vendor must sell it to someone else. This is just passing the problem from one person to another in the hopes that it ends up with someone who won't notice the defect.

If this is indeed the case, then it sounds like Spyderco doesn't want to deal with the problem.

 

[Perhaps_OCD?]

So, Spyderco doesn't want it back? It sounds like they just want you to exchange it at the vendor so the Vendor must sell it to someone else. This is just passing the problem from one person to another in the hopes that it ends up with someone who won't notice the defect.

If this is indeed the case, then it sounds like Spyderco doesn't want to deal with the problem.

Yes, but to be fair, I can see why they’d think the knife having blade chips and some hair in the handle is a vendor issue. I believe the vendor, they’re a large online only operation and they shipped me the knife the same day they got it from Spyderco.

The shitty lock design and blade centering makes it irrelevant. Spyderco needs to step up and hopefully will.

 

[Alberta Hunter]

Yes, but to be fair, I can see why they’d think the knife having blade chips and some hair in the handle is a vendor issue. I believe the vendor, they’re a large online only operation and they shipped me the knife the same day they got it from Spyderco.

The shitty lock design and blade centering makes it irrelevant. Spyderco needs to step up and hopefully will.

Chips in the blade? Wow..... I would be pissed; even if it were a $50 dollar knife! At over $500, it's
inexcusable. I would love to know what the Vendor is supposed to do with it now.

I couldn't agree more that this is a major issue and needs to be remedied.

 

[Perhaps_OCD?]

Chips in the blade? Wow..... I would be pissed; even if it were a $50 dollar knife! At over $500, it's
inexcusable. I would love to know what the Vendor is supposed to do with it now.

I couldn't agree more that this is a major issue and needs to be remedied.

I probably would normally be pissed. But the thought of some guy in Taiwan being like “wow this blade is all chipped, is it still sharp?” then shaving their arm and getting hair in the handle makes me laugh. It’s so shitty it’s funny....

But hey at least Spyderco was smart using s90v instead of m390, 20cv, or CTS-204p right? JK, what idiots.

I don’t want to bash them too much tho... my new DLT m390 PM2 and BBS m390 PM2 are pretty good.

 

[Alsharif]

S90V is a brilliant blade steel, very much in-line with the trio you mentioned.

 

[Hurrul]

But hey at least Spyderco was smart using s90v instead of m390, 20cv, or CTS-204p right? JK, what idiots.

If Spyderco made a blade in s90v, which it appears you don't care for and makes them "idiots", why did you still buy it?

 

[jstn]

I can't believe people still act surprised that frame locks are susceptible to this. It's 2019 people! The list is loooong and well documented across production manufacturers, mid-techs, and customs.

As a lefty I've never been into frame locks anyway, but I never got their wild popularity or reputation as a "hard use" lock. For the most part, it seems like locks that fail even weak spine whack tests aren't much of an issue for people in everyday use though. Maybe that's why their dominance persists? I.e., the massive ZT threads where people were shocked, SHOCKED, and then ultimately didn't care lol.

Not trying to defend the Paysan in particular or say it shouldn't have better QC/tolerances/whatever, but at this point I'm not sure why people expect what they do from frame locks anymore.

Even perfect out-of-the-box specimins will wear over time. Lock stick... unacceptable. Steel inserts may actually make them even more prone to shifting/whack-failure. Late lockup is unacceptable. It developed up and down play. Etc...

GLTA

I mostly avoid framelocks for these very reasons. I do own a couple because I love the design and in spite of them being framelocks, but I definitely use them with more caution than my other knives.

 

[Perhaps_OCD?]

If Spyderco made a blade in s90v, which it appears you don't care for and makes them "idiots", why did you still buy it?

Valid point. I almost didn’t buy it because of the blade steel, but I liked everything else about the knife. S90v is a decent steel. However, in my experience it’s harder to sharpen, chips easier (my Paysan has chips and I was being a smart ass), and doesn’t hold an edge any better than m390 or its cousins.



I didn’t meant to derail the thread. Back to the topic at hand. I’ll be going to a local knife shop this afternoon to look at some stuff, and it appears they have Paysans in stock. I’ll check a couple more out.