Oh man, I don’t dislike anything more than that dumb notch at the start of the edge. Please don’t put one on. On a small blade like this one it will catch on everything you are cutting no matter how well done it is, and I have no problem sharpening blades without the dumb notch. It is my opinion putting the notch on this knife would be a flaw.
Steel Junky's - need opinions
- Thread starter Sal Glesser
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That notch can be nice for starting some sorts of cuts (pumpkin carving comes to mind), but tends to hang up in cuts most of the time. I like it because it lets me sharpen at an angle without smacking the stones into the handle area.
yablanowitz
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If I had a dollar for every time a choil hung up when cutting thin material, I wouldn't need to save up for these mules. It is a lot easier for those who desire one to add it than for those of us who don't want it to remove it.
The Mastiff
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Sal, thanks for the reply. Another question. How big a problem is the extra poundage in the 52100 order going to be? Can you resell the extra, or is that too much trouble? I know you stated you could use it for extra projects but my concern is if this happens often it could jeapordize the whole project as being more trouble than it's worth.
Some of the steels wanted by the steel junkys will likely end up being the same type situation. Steels like the F's ( 2 and 8), vascowear/cruwear, O1/7's ,etc will probably all be that way. You can't buy whole melts for each knife project in practical terms unless you have a way to sell the unused. Is that at all practical for, say, 4 or 5 batches of the steels?
If not we'd likely have to stick to in stock/popular types such as D2/S90V/3V/L6 etc. Not a problem as such but that leaves out some of the best steels. Not having access to Japanese steels also takes away some of the best and most in demand steels.
Descisions, descisions! Sal, Give yourself a raise. You deserve it. Joe
Note* http://users.ameritech.net/knives/edge.htm ( Wayne goddards edge holding tests)
Some of the steels wanted by the steel junkys will likely end up being the same type situation. Steels like the F's ( 2 and 8), vascowear/cruwear, O1/7's ,etc will probably all be that way. You can't buy whole melts for each knife project in practical terms unless you have a way to sell the unused. Is that at all practical for, say, 4 or 5 batches of the steels?
If not we'd likely have to stick to in stock/popular types such as D2/S90V/3V/L6 etc. Not a problem as such but that leaves out some of the best steels. Not having access to Japanese steels also takes away some of the best and most in demand steels.
Descisions, descisions! Sal, Give yourself a raise. You deserve it. Joe
Note* http://users.ameritech.net/knives/edge.htm ( Wayne goddards edge holding tests)
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Re: shapening choil
I say leave it as-is, without one. It is easy enough to add one but not so easy to take it away.
I say leave it as-is, without one. It is easy enough to add one but not so easy to take it away.
Hello Sal
I went to the Spyderco forums and read TazKristi's post (http://spyderco.com/forums/showpost.php?p=343145&postcount=1) about the Spyderco Mule Team details. One of the things that is required for the sign up is "Commitment (Series sign-up or Individual)". Given that there is neither a photo of the knife nor any price known how can that be? The way I see it if someone pledges a commitment then they have to follow through but how can this happen given these very important parameters are still missing? Even in case the knife is a beauty (and for the sake of the records I will say that I am a big fun of Spyderco) it may be too costly for some of us to obtain it, let alone the entire series.
Am I missing something here?
Actually, there are photos here, and all they're doing at the moment is gauging how many people would go for individual or the whole series, you aren't actually committing to buying anything. As for price, my guess is that they won't know until they've finished making the first run.
Hope this helps.
yablanowitz
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Yes. Scroll down to the thread here labeled "Spyderco Mule Team Details", you will find the e-mail address and required information there.
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Post # 245 of this thread has some thoughts on cost. This wont tell you exactly how mutch you will have to pay per blade but it gives you an idea of Sal's thoughts on pricing.
Even though I don't have a price quote in hand for this project, I trust that Sal will do the right thing. I suspect that whatever the price of the blades turns out to be, it will be a good value.
I don't think I will have a better opportunity to try out these steels at a price I could ever afford. Espesialy since the alternative is to buy a bunch of custom knives at the going rate. I would much rather pay a bit over cost of the blade only.
Sal said he is going to add a small margin. I hope he will not lose money on this, but I don't expect he will make much on it either. Hopefully, he will get good input from this project to use in his day job.
JMHO
Sean
Even though I don't have a price quote in hand for this project, I trust that Sal will do the right thing. I suspect that whatever the price of the blades turns out to be, it will be a good value.
I don't think I will have a better opportunity to try out these steels at a price I could ever afford. Espesialy since the alternative is to buy a bunch of custom knives at the going rate. I would much rather pay a bit over cost of the blade only.
Sal said he is going to add a small margin. I hope he will not lose money on this, but I don't expect he will make much on it either. Hopefully, he will get good input from this project to use in his day job.
JMHO
Sean
The Mastiff
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M4, Then 52100, lastly 13C26 ( really F2/F8/Vascowear/9V)
Sal Glesser
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Steel is in. 52100.
We'll pilot a few pieces to check processes.
sal
We'll pilot a few pieces to check processes.
sal
yablanowitz
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Cool! I'll start saving now!
I'll start saving now!
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Are we any closer to a price on these? Hopefully I can round-up the funds to participate.
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I just had a thought I knew this is in a super steel thing...... but I would like to see something like Cpm 15v I believe it is something not necessarily stainless probably not stainless and maybe even brittle, that has the highest possible amount of abrasion resistance just as a sort of reference point for comparison, and something I would really like to have
what in if possible signal in simple English is a Mar quenched steel I understand it has something to do with rapid quenching of low carbon steel, and possibly something to do with a high copper content. but there were a lot of diagrams that I had no idea about. However from what I understand 52100 is almost exclusively. used in customer sub custom knife production the only production knife I can think of in the steel is the al mar Shiva that was made in the steel for a little while. this model had a exhibition great would handle and was very expensive. Anyway I was thinking that it would be nice to compare a custom heat treat relatively low alloy steel. to a standard production super steel and it looks like this is what we are going to get. I think I'm signed on to this one pretty firmly , but I still want to know what a Mar quench is. all I need is a price cannot be, able to make a final decision
what in if possible signal in simple English is a Mar quenched steel I understand it has something to do with rapid quenching of low carbon steel, and possibly something to do with a high copper content. but there were a lot of diagrams that I had no idea about. However from what I understand 52100 is almost exclusively. used in customer sub custom knife production the only production knife I can think of in the steel is the al mar Shiva that was made in the steel for a little while. this model had a exhibition great would handle and was very expensive. Anyway I was thinking that it would be nice to compare a custom heat treat relatively low alloy steel. to a standard production super steel and it looks like this is what we are going to get. I think I'm signed on to this one pretty firmly , but I still want to know what a Mar quench is. all I need is a price cannot be, able to make a final decision
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Hi A druid!
Swamp Rat Knifeworks and occasionally Northwinds and Bark River use 52100, too. It's a very nice steel.
Marquenching is the process of rapidly cooling heated steel from its austenitic crystal shape (the microscopic crystals change shape, size, and number depending on times they're held or moved to certain temperatures) to the very starting point of the temperature range wherein it would change to martensite. Austenite is a soft and fluffy crystal shape and martensite is harder, more needly, and full of built-in stresses (many of those stresses are relieved by tempering the steel so the closely-packed shape of the martensite can relax and spread out).
By dropping the steel's temperature to the hottest starting point at which martensite occurs and holding it there for a pre-determined amount of time, the steel (in our case, a Spyderco Muleteam Knife! :thumbup: ) can transform into hard and tough martensite with less internal stressors threatening to make it brittle. You can also use marquenching just a hair above the martensite starting point and form a similar crystal shape called bainite. There are two types of bainite and knife-users are interested in the tougher type called "lower bainite." Marquenching can allow for either an almost entirely martensitic blade, entirely bainitic blade, or mixture of both crystals (often called a duplex structure blade - though these days, condex seems more relevant...).
Changing steel crystals from austenite into bainite can make the steel more impact-resistant and more flexible at a given thickness, but at the expense of hardness and wear-resistance. To combat those negatives, folks such as Randal Graham, Bob Kramer, and BFC's own Galloglas use marquenching to produce a mixture of martensite and bainite in their blades. Howard Clark, and maybe some others, go as far as making the spine portions of their knives bainitic while making the edges out of pure, delicious martensite. For more info on bainite, look for free, online stuff written by Dr. Harry Bhadesia of Cambridge University. Also look for critiques of said steel crystal by Jerry Bennett and Kevin Cashen.
Swamp Rat Knifeworks and occasionally Northwinds and Bark River use 52100, too. It's a very nice steel.
Marquenching is the process of rapidly cooling heated steel from its austenitic crystal shape (the microscopic crystals change shape, size, and number depending on times they're held or moved to certain temperatures) to the very starting point of the temperature range wherein it would change to martensite. Austenite is a soft and fluffy crystal shape and martensite is harder, more needly, and full of built-in stresses (many of those stresses are relieved by tempering the steel so the closely-packed shape of the martensite can relax and spread out).
By dropping the steel's temperature to the hottest starting point at which martensite occurs and holding it there for a pre-determined amount of time, the steel (in our case, a Spyderco Muleteam Knife! :thumbup: ) can transform into hard and tough martensite with less internal stressors threatening to make it brittle. You can also use marquenching just a hair above the martensite starting point and form a similar crystal shape called bainite. There are two types of bainite and knife-users are interested in the tougher type called "lower bainite." Marquenching can allow for either an almost entirely martensitic blade, entirely bainitic blade, or mixture of both crystals (often called a duplex structure blade - though these days, condex seems more relevant...).
Changing steel crystals from austenite into bainite can make the steel more impact-resistant and more flexible at a given thickness, but at the expense of hardness and wear-resistance. To combat those negatives, folks such as Randal Graham, Bob Kramer, and BFC's own Galloglas use marquenching to produce a mixture of martensite and bainite in their blades. Howard Clark, and maybe some others, go as far as making the spine portions of their knives bainitic while making the edges out of pure, delicious martensite. For more info on bainite, look for free, online stuff written by Dr. Harry Bhadesia of Cambridge University. Also look for critiques of said steel crystal by Jerry Bennett and Kevin Cashen.