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Survive! Knives Forum Closed - What Changed?

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ncrockclimb

ncrockclimb

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For years Survive! Knives has sold knives based on absurdly inaccurate delivery estimates and promises of future "changes" that never seem to happened. Numerous people have reported having difficulty contacting S!K, and at times it took S!K months and multiple requests to process refunds for items that were years past their estimated delivery dates. Instead of using the money from the "Starter Program" in the way they said they would (invest in the business to grow manufacturing capacity, reduce lead times and increase availability) they moved the business multiple times, made no significant increase to manufacturing capacity and purchased an abandoned hotel in a the middle of nowhere... I could go on about the owner's background and S!K's blaming their problems on suppliers, materials, past partners, PayPal, banks, fires, vacations, excessive demand, family obligations, trolls, etc., but you probably get the idea. This has been going on for years...

Yesterday, Spark closed their forum. I think it is a great move. However, I am curious why he did it now. Did something happened with S!K that precipitated him closing their forum? I looked at their Instagram page (they have the comments disabled) and the Facebook fan page, and neither has any new or relevant info. So, I am posting here and asking the forum if they know anything.
 
I did not see that. I appreciate you posting the link.

@Spark, thank you. Although they might have started this business with sincere intentions, it seems pretty obvious that Ellie and Guy have been lying about a lot of things for a long time. I am very happy that you are no longer going to allow them to use this forum. Again, thank you @Spark
 
On one hand I feel bad for them, on the other hand they clearly had it coming. I mean...three year old orders? If it was a one man show and it was told that it can take like 18 months to deliver and it takes two years...okay...yeah MAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYBE. But a company claiming they can't get materials, what is this? The 1950's and we don't have internet, global shipping and suppliers and a shortage of steel and other materials? lol please. And 30% bad stock? lol please. Our company whines we we had more than 5% bad product.

/Edit: Anyway, first and last post from me on the topic.
 
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It was always interesting to read Ellie's replies. She can dodge, duck, dip, dive and dodge with the best of them, and has been using this forum to disseminate her BS for WAY TOO LONG.

I am surprised that there are people that STILL support and love the brand... the knives are OK, but nothing special at all. Add in the wait, Ellie's BS and the risk of not getting your order, and I have no idea why people would want to own one of these knives let alone actively shill for the company.
 
ncrockclimb said:
It was always interesting to read Ellie's replies. She can dodge, duck, dip, dive and dodge with the best of them, and has been using this forum to disseminate her BS for WAY TOO LONG.

I am surprised that there are people that STILL support and love the brand... the knives are OK, but nothing special at all. Add in the wait, Ellie's BS and the risk of not getting your order, and I have no idea why people would want to own one of these knives let alone actively shill for the company.
Click to expand...

I think not just in their case but in general it's a case of willful ignorance, most likely because you own the product and want to rationalize why you have or you have it on order and don't want to risk rubbing the company the wrong way and risking intentional screw ups on their part to get back at you for bad mouthing them. Neither is the right thing to do, but that's how I'd explain it.
 
Good riddance, long past time for them to be gone. I don't think I have ever seen so much bs and absurd excuses coming from one company. Anyone with an ounce of sense can see they have been robbing the new orders to build some the old for years.

What I find truly pathetic about Survive! is Guy always letting his other half take the heat for everything while he hides in Millit's shop pretending to be too busy to actually run his own company because he is such a perfectionist. You know putting handles and edges on cnc blades is like really demanding n stuff.

Using your girl as a shield is utterly despicable.
 
No one to blame but themselves.

What was surprising to me was thier level of encouragement for the Starter Programs. Offering increased discounts for $1000 + advance orders.

Interesting economics also- The longer it takes them to make the knives the less they made off of each knife. Did they really stop selling knives? If so how long can they go without any cash flow and a deminishing profit on the pre-paid knives?
 
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ncrockclimb said:
I am surprised that there are people that STILL support and love the brand... the knives are OK, but nothing special at all. I have no idea why people would want to own one of these knives let alone actively shill for the company.
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^ Agreed! :thumbsup:

Skystorm said:
Good riddance, long past time for them to be gone. I don't think I have ever seen so much bs and absurd excuses coming from one company. Anyone with an ounce of sense can see they have been robbing the new orders to build some the old for years.

What I find truly pathetic about Survive! is Guy always letting his other half take the heat for everything while he hides in Millit's shop pretending to be too busy to actually run his own company because he is such a perfectionist. You know putting handles and edges on cnc blades is like really demanding n stuff.
Click to expand...

Spark, gave S!K more than ample time to get their company back on the right track. Unfortunately, some people just have no concept, of how to successfully run a business.


braillediver said:
No one to blame but themselves.

What was surprising to me was thier level of encouragement for the Starter Programs. Offering increased discounts for $1000 + advance orders.

Interesting economics also- The longer it takes them to make the knives the less they made off of each knife. Did they really stop selling knives? If so how long can they go without any cash flow and a deminishing profit on the pre-paid knives?
Click to expand...

Anyone with any common sense, who's been following S!K history here, knew this day would come....eventually.

I can remember another negative thread that was posted here in the GBU a few years ago. A couple of BF member's came out & publically began questioning S!K poor business ethics, and insanely long wait times....

A group of S!K fanboy's showed up in the GBU, & began attacking anyone who was being openly critical of S!K.

A couple of these self righteous S!K fanboy's became so indignant, Super Mod RevDevil had to make a cameo appearance, & put the hammer down. RD closing sentence was priceless!

RevDevil
"If you are posting only to argue and get a rise out of people, I suggest you rethink your motivation. If deadlines come and go, and no communications are replied to, no updates are given, etc people have every right to be concerned. I don't care if it is a 3 person operation or a 300 employee corporation. I hope you come to your senses and see what is unfolding here. You are acting as if you have some vested interest in this somehow. Much more than someone with a profound respect for small business owners."
RevDevil:
"You can be as opinionated as you like, but where that occurs is a different matter. There are rules here new guy, and you will abide by them. This is a privately owned forum, and you actually have no 1st amendment rights here. Deal with that...
This specific forum is not for pissing matches, if that is what you all want to do, take it over to Whine and Cheese and go knock yourselves out. As far as I can see there is only trolling, insults, and dumbassery going on here."






 
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I suspect they had big cash flow problems and materials orders were troublesome. Probably the right call on forum representation. My suggestion to them is to not take any new orders until they catch up. My sense is that they will never catch up due to one problem/issue or another. Many people here have recommended Survive knives over the last few years.
 
braillediver said:
No one to blame but themselves.

What was surprising to me was thier level of encouragement for the Starter Programs. Offering increased discounts for $1000 + advance orders.

Interesting economics also- The longer it takes them to make the knives the less they made off of each knife. Did they really stop selling knives? If so how long can they go without any cash flow and a deminishing profit on the pre-paid knives?
Click to expand...

Exactly. The economics behind S!K have not made sense for a LONG TIME. We know that they got a "loan" (which they did not pay-off in the agreed upon time and that the lender extended the terms), but I still wonder how they keep the lights on and continue to ship a few knives a week. I also really wonder why they stopped selling knives. Based on their past actions, I seriously doubt that it was a decision they made on their own / without outside pressure. I would love to know exactly what happened... but would not trust Guy or Ellie to provide an honest and transparent answer.

So now the question becomes how much longer will they last?
 
22-rimfire said:
I suspect they had big cash flow problems and materials orders were troublesome. Probably the right call on forum representation. My suggestion to them is to not take any new orders until they catch up. My sense is that they will never catch up due to one problem/issue or another. Many people here have recommended Survive knives over the last few years.
Click to expand...

They haven't taken new orders in 9 months or so and still haven't caught up. I fear forum members have one less outlet to figure out when their knives will be completed. If I had an outstanding deposit, I'd ask for a refund now before the money is all gone.
 
What a sad downfall. I was buying SKs back from their early PA days. We all wanted them to succeed.
But I was one of the first (politely) raising the alarm bell YEARS ago about Survive! running a possible ponzi scheme and got jumped on by scores of SK. Fanboys and some very questionable shills. In retrospect, those like me that raised alarm years ago would need an entire dedicated BF forum named "I told you so!!!" just to unpack this absurd run-on of a blatantly obvious prolonged pyramid scheme. Well, better late then never, BF did the right thing.
The reality is, anyone that works in or near the machining industry as I do, would know it's utterly inconceivable absurd beyond belief to be so incompetent as to take three yeas to make a batch of very basic simple design machine made knives.

The only possible explanation I see is..
SK is either
A "Front" for something else, (no way it takes 3 years to machine a batch of knives). It's utterly impossible to be that incompetent.
Or they are independently wealthy and making knives is a casual side hobby.
Or they are stretching loans or inherited money out way beyond sustainability and people are going to loose their knives and their money!

But even if you are still a hardcore fan that believes in world peace and you will eventually get your knife.. You can't deny the fact their lead-times have been growing and CONTINUE to INCREASE- now at over three years approaching four years.. and from there even greater. I remember a time when Ellie told me two years lead-time would mean something horribly went wrong. But two things that really creep me out about SK! is , how Guy never defends his own company. Not a good sign. And second, how Ellie is STILL saying "they are looking for ways to improve production. They have been saying that for many years now beyond Ad nauseam and saying it now sounds more like a middle finger coming from a ponzi/pyramid scheme then an excuse.
 
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I never had a dog in the fight as I discovered SK only after the writing was starting to appear that there was something terribly wrong. I have never openly "voiced" my disdain or incredulity that it was still rolling along. Until Nov last year, people were still being solicited (and were !!) sending money. SK only put a stop to more orders when the noise from the room about broken promises and missed deadlines and almost unbelievable "events" got so loud it could no longer be ignored. I stayed out of the fray in their forum out of respect, no need to "dog pile" as I am not directly effected.

That orders placed and paid for in 2015 are only just now being filled has to tell even the most ardent believer that all is not well. Unfortunately the forum remaining open on BF was a blight and, in some regards, gave SK credibility they most certainly did not deserve. It seems only a matter of time before they solicited new orders (using the completion of three almost four year old orders as a "sign" things were on-track again) and frankly this forum has no place being associated with such a move or the company.

I MOST CERTAINLY do not want them to fail, I would be much much happier to read in a year or two that they are going wonderfully, that all their commitments have been met, long suffering customers are whole (either the knives they wanted or their dollars in the bank) and that they have a production line of knives which people genuinely like and can be ordered and delivered in an acceptable time frame. That's what I want to see, the realist in me does not at all believe, with past history and an apparent lack of a cogent plan, that this will be realised. I just hope that the majority of people are not out their dollars when the model implodes. Simply put, the company have had no income for at least nine months, what is keeping them afloat ? With no cash flow, the bills I can only assume are being paid out of the pre-payments or other forms of lending. You don't need an MBA to see how that will end.

If you can't afford to loose the $s you have "invested" in SK orders, I think the time is now to get out.
 
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