Thanks Sal: me & spyderco vs 2 pit bulls

Pitbulls are what the media makes them out to be. Anyhow, glad you got out of it with as little injury as you did. Whodathunk it, you used a knife to defend youself and you haven't stated that you have any formal training???
 
crom said:
Pitbulls are what the media makes them out to be.
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No, they are what they are. Tell all the parents that have had their children killed or harmed that it was the media's fault.


This is not the thread to be taking up for pitbulls. Please show the OP some respect.
 
I respectfully disagree. I have a pitbull in my family and I trust him around my small children completely. And I commented on the OP's experience in a way that was not disrespectful.
 
Oh Ok, you are right, it's only the media and bad owners that makes them kill.
 
Murdamook said:
Your comment is an ignorant one. The issue with "pit type dogs" is the crowd they attract due to perpetuated myths about how "mean" they are. Many people who own pit bulls are responsible and keep track of them, and with that type of owner, they become kind, gentle animals.
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I have heard this arguement many times. I do sympathize somewhat, being the owner of an American Bulldog ("pitbull on steroids"), which even has stronger guarding tendencies than your average pitbull. I bought an AB partially because I wanted a breed that could survive a random attack from a stray pitbull. Pitbulls are not gentically predisposed to being viscous. What is bred in the pitbull is the genetic ability to be an efficient and deadly fighting machine. Unlike human bad guys these dogs are lightening fast, have a high pain threshold, and will frequently continue fighting/attacking even with significant or life threatening injuries. The fact that there are many irresponsible or ignorant owners does not make this breed any less menacing to innocents in our society. I guess we have to ask ourselves how many peoples lives have to be ruined or ended before we decide it is time to rethink pitbull ownership in the US. I am to willing sacrifice for the greater good and to look for a non-bull breed when my AB is gone.
 
mwhich50 said:
I have heard this arguement many times. I do sympathize somewhat, being the owner of an American Bulldog ("pitbull on steroids"), which even has stronger guarding tendencies than your average pitbull. I bought an AB partially because I wanted a breed that could survive a random attack from a stray pitbull. Pitbulls are not gentically predisposed to being viscous. What is bred in the pitbull is the genetic ability to be an efficient and deadly fighting machine. Unlike human bad guys these dogs are lightening fast, have a high pain threshold, and will frequently continue fighting/attacking even with significant or life threatening injuries. The fact that there are many irresponsible or ignorant owners does not make this breed any less menacing to innocents in our society. I guess we have to ask ourselves how many peoples lives have to be ruined or ended before we decide it is time to rethink pitbull ownership in the US. I am to willing sacrifice for the greater good and to look for a non-bull breed when my AB is gone.
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This is equally as absurd. There is no way-even with artificial selection and directional breeding-to create a menacing dog. Dogs are what their owners make them. There is a stigma that plagues the pit bull breed, and that is that they excel as fighting dogs. They may have traits that allow them to be effective as guard dogs or fighters, but the training and habits inherited through the owner's actions are entirely to blame when it comedy to pit bull ferocity. The sad issue is: due to the stigma surrounding pit bulls, they attract owners that seek out this type of dog, and they raise it improperly. I have encountered hundreds of pit bulls and none of them.have been vicious or aggressive.
 
Ken44 said:
No, they are what they are. Tell all the parents that have had their children killed or harmed that it was the media's fault.


This is not the thread to be taking up for pitbulls. Please show the OP some respect.
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Stating that not all pit bulls are like the two encountered by the OP is not disrespectful in any way, especially when there are several people who initiated the conversation by stating that all pit bulls were vicious killers.

I think everyone involved in the discussion has actually been very sympathetic to the OP's issue and most have wished him well.
 
SMH. You guys, the Nature vs Nurture debate on behavioral characteristics was settled, to large extent, a long time ago. The verdict? Behavior is a result of BOTH nature (biology) and nurture (environment/experience); it isn't an either/or proposition. If you're familiar with Venn diagrams, picture both Nature and Nurture intersecting, but not completely.

And yes, aggression CAN be bred. How do you think we ended up with so many different breeds of dogs with each breed displaying not just specific physical traits but also specific temperaments/tendencies? We BRED them that way! And, yes, sometimes we later TRAIN them to further hone those innate behaviors.
 
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Aggression is an inheritable trait, but pit bulls were not bred for human-aggression. They are aggressive toward other dogs, but rarely, naturally, toward humans. Trainers can help owners learn control a pit bull's animal aggression. Also, I never said aggression wasn't a genetic trait, I said mean was not, and that you couldn't naturally breed a menacing dog.

To the individual who was making so much noise about how the media isn't responsible for pit bull attacks: the media is responsible for incorrect reporting and overreporting.

http://www.aspca.org/fight-animal-c...ut-the-issues/pit-bull-bias-in-the-media.aspx
 
I'm glad you & your dog are okay.You did what you had to do. :encouragement:
 
I know some pits are nice as pie, and some are killers, but when I am around one, I feel uneasy......sorry thats just how I feel. And I wouldn't want my 2 yr old son around one, period. They just seem unpredictable to me. Once the dog has you or a loved one by the neck, its too late for some brain dead dog owner to say "Well, he never did that before!"

Pits aren't the only breed I don't trust...my cousins boxer attacked someone too.
 
Murdamook said:
Aggression is an inheritable trait, but pit bulls were not bred for human-aggression. They are aggressive toward other dogs, but rarely, naturally, toward humans. Trainers can help owners learn control a pit bull's animal aggression. Also, I never said aggression wasn't a genetic trait, I said mean was not, and that you couldn't naturally breed a menacing dog.

To the individual who was making so much noise about how the media isn't responsible for pit bull attacks: the media is responsible for incorrect reporting and overreporting.

http://www.aspca.org/fight-animal-c...ut-the-issues/pit-bull-bias-in-the-media.aspx
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Re. the bolded phrase: personally, I don't really like dogs that have ANY kind of aggressivity built-in. In my opinion, that's already a huge problem that will lead only to trouble of all sorts. I like my dogs nice and happy towards all living things. Not aggressive. That's why all my dogs have been Boston Terriers: they will LICK you to death...:)
Furthermore, it's irrelevant whether a pitbull has or hasn't any "natural" aggression towards humans because in real life if a pitbull attacks another dog, there is a very high chance that the owner of the dog attacked by the pitbull will be present and will intervene to try and save his/her dog. And my bet is that the pitbull will not just back down with a bow...
If you have any doubt about this, just read the first post of this very thread. The OP was bitten by pitbulls because he was defending his dogs. Natural aggression or not, his flesh was mauled by pitbulls...
 
I'm glad that you and your dogs are OK. Yet another reason to stand up for knife rights. I have not met many pitbulls so have no personal opinion but they are in so many attacks on kids it cant just be bad owners. Anyway this is not a dog thread but a knife thread and I'm glad that you had your spyderco on you.
 
I wondered how long it would take before this turned into a PitBull debate... glad to hear of your story and that all went well!
 
traumadoc said:
Cops were cool, owners have no clue who I am (as per officers). The owners were cited for 2 or 3 violations. Nice thing about Arizona, you have full justification for using deadly force when you are threatened, dog or person: shoot, stab, etc. whatever it takes to take care of the situation.
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Sue the owners. Only way they will ever change any behaivor. If they are "judgement proof" sue them anyway. Hopefully you can get a judgement that will allow you to garnish any future earnings.


I CANNOT ABIDE DANGEROUS DOG OWNERS ALLOWING THEIR DOGS TO TERRORIZE PEOPLE.

I had to pick up a battle axe in my garage because a nasty pit mix mutt chased my wife on our property, inside the garage and tried to come in the door after her.

If the owner had not already run over and gotten a hand on the collar that dog would have gotten a face full of poll axe. The owner never apologized. Luckily it was not my 6 year old or 2 year old outside.

My friend (and neighbor) grew up with a pretty scarred face, because his own family "pet" pit bull attacked him and savaged him. Not one accidental bite. Knocked him down, tore up his leggs, and began savaging him, tore his face head and neck all up. His dad saved him from being killed. The crazy thing, was they were so white trash, the dad kept the dog. We were so glad when they moved out and took that demon with them.

My cousin had to undergo 12 surgeries to repair her face. Lower lip torn off. (not a pit bull, nor a "dangerous breed")

I have been attacked by a German Shepard (my fault, and I did not get hurt, just had torn clothes, I was about take the dog for a walk, and was playing with it). Around that same time my friend had the back of his hand torn open by another German Shepard that was tied to a park bench when we were walking through the park in a group of 4 guys.

My older brother was attacked by a German Shepard and hat to go get medical treatment.

Another cousin (she worked at the vets office for quite a while) had her face bitten by her own Doberman (trying to break up a fight between her two Dobermans and German Shepard).

Most any breed can give you a good bite.

Some breeds will try and finish the job.
 
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I agree, it's not so much the breed as the training/breeding but when any dog becomes the aggressor and attacks your dogs and you, you have to go on the offensive because their instinct is to continue until something in their 'nature or training' is satisfied and they walk away. Unfortunately for any of us who are 'innocent, behaved and not instigating' an attack, we end up injured usually. Aggressive animals need a tighter reign on them and to not be aware they're loose is no excuse when they are known aggressive dogs as these were. The other two dogs (of the 4 total) were removed from the property as well by animal control since there was evidence of fight training. I have no regrets and would do it again except next time as they charge, they will be met by gunfire......never again will I leave the sidearm at home like I did that one time.
If someone wants to have an 'aggressive' dog to protect them or their property, great, just don't let them off leash or loose or we have the right to go on the offensive in order to defend ourselves.

As a trauma surgeon, I put people back together all of the time from dog bites and maulings....I see the horror and the injuries up close and personal. I wouldn't hesitate to do this again.

traumadoc
 
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