The "Ask Nathan a question" thread

Hi Nathan. Are the scales on the edc1 thicker than the scales on the edc2? If so whats the difference in overall thickness, thanks

-Tony
 
TRog said:
Hi Nathan. Are the scales on the edc1 thicker than the scales on the edc2? If so whats the difference in overall thickness, thanks

-Tony
Click to expand...

The assembled EDC1 is a little thicker than the assembled EDC2, despite the blade on the EDC2 being a tad thicker. I don't remember the exact the dimensions but the EDC2 is around a millimeter thinner across the scales.
 
I lean towards Micarta almost always ... yes G10 can look nice but for me the grip and benefits of Micarta out weigh G10 every time ... lightweight ... tough ... for me far more comfortable to use especially in a larger knife ... easy to clean or dye ... just my personal thoughts
 
Nathan, I'm super excited to find this thread... I was reading one of your historic treads and I think you can answer a question of mine.

I'm looking for an ordered procedure to precision flatten a forged Damascus billet with a mini-mill. I'd like to give a Damascus billet I made to a friend for a stock removal project he has.

I'm guessing I should:
  1. Anneal
  2. Hit the bulk of the faces with the low grit on a belt grinder
  3. Clamp down in the mill
  4. Make a ton of passes with either a 1/2'' end mill or use an insert index-able face mill? (Any suggestions on configuration for a low HP mill?)
  5. Flip over and do the other side.

Thanks for any points into the right direction. I know very little about machining.
James
 
J. Keeton said:
Nathan, I'm super excited to find this thread... I was reading one of your historic treads and I think you can answer a question of mine.

I'm looking for an ordered procedure to precision flatten a forged Damascus billet with a mini-mill. I'd like to give a Damascus billet I made to a friend for a stock removal project he has.

I'm guessing I should:
  1. Anneal
  2. Hit the bulk of the faces with the low grit on a belt grinder
  3. Clamp down in the mill
  4. Make a ton of passes with either a 1/2'' end mill or use an insert index-able face mill? (Any suggestions on configuration for a low HP mill?)
  5. Flip over and do the other side.

Thanks for any points into the right direction. I know very little about machining.
James
Click to expand...

I'm not a subject matter expert on processing damascus or using a minimill but I can tell you how we'd do it here.

1. I would want it spheroidized annealed.

2. I'd get it straight enough to clamp it edge up in a milling machine vise and deck one edge, then the other so it's a straight consistent width then deburr

3. clamp it in a milling machine vise and deck one side then deburr
It should be set on parallels with any bow up in the center and pressed down by hand.

4. clamp it in a milling machine vise and deck the other side then deburr
It should be set on parallels, lightly clamped then tapped down then fully tightened and tapped down again.

This should result in an accurate bar

I like these face mills : https://www.maritool.com/Indexable-...Shell-Mill-45deg-X-3.15-dia/product_info.html

I like these inserts: https://www.maritool.com/Indexable-...10/p679/SEHW1204AFTN-ACK300/product_info.html



The wrong facemill can beat up a spindle. I like these because they're soft cutting, they don't hammer your spindle. That said I've never used a minimill.*

I like that insert because it's designed for stainless, it is free cutting and doesn't smush much stress into the skin of the blank so it results in less distortion and a straighter more stress free bar.

That facemill and insert can (and probably should) be run dry. I turn the 3" at 500 RPM and feed 12 inches per minute. Your depth of cut will depend on your machine but shouldn't be less than .005".






*Actually we use a minimill here in the shop all the time, though the nomenclature in a forum like this is different than other areas of industry. Our minimill is a just a little 12"X16", it weighs a little over three tons and may not be what people around here refer to as a minimill, but that's what it is.
 
Nathan the Machinist said:
I'm not a subject matter expert on processing damascus or using a minimill but I can tell you how we'd do it here.

1. I would want it spheroidized annealed.

2. I'd get it straight enough to clamp it edge up in a milling machine vise and deck one edge, then the other so it's a straight consistent width then deburr

3. clamp it in a milling machine vise and deck one side then deburr
It should be set on parallels with any bow up in the center and pressed down by hand.

4. clamp it in a milling machine vise and deck the other side then deburr
It should be set on parallels, lightly clamped then tapped down then fully tightened and tapped down again.

This should result in an accurate bar

I like these face mills : https://www.maritool.com/Indexable-...Shell-Mill-45deg-X-3.15-dia/product_info.html

I like these inserts: https://www.maritool.com/Indexable-...10/p679/SEHW1204AFTN-ACK300/product_info.html



The wrong facemill can beat up a spindle. I like these because they're soft cutting, they don't hammer your spindle. That said I've never used a minimill.*

I like that insert because it's designed for stainless, it is free cutting and doesn't smush much stress into the skin of the blank so it results in less distortion and a straighter more stress free bar.

That facemill and insert can (and probably should) be run dry. I turn the 3" at 500 RPM and feed 12 inches per minute. Your depth of cut will depend on your machine but shouldn't be less than .005".






*Actually we use a minimill here in the shop all the time, though the nomenclature in a forum like this is different than other areas of industry. Our minimill is a just a little 12"X16", it weighs a little over three tons and may not be what people around here refer to as a minimill, but that's what it is.
Click to expand...

You're the man. Thanks for your reply. This will help me greatly. Yall's classification of a mini-mill made me giggle. Mine is the Siegx2 from Harbor Freight... Thing weights only 140 lbs.... Don't judge me! I don't have the space or funds for a larger one at the moment.


 
That's awesome!

I think in order to make this procedure work with my setup, I'll have to go with a much smaller diameter insert end mill to face the flats. I'm thinking of trying out this 1'' carbide insert end mill.

I'll try a 1/2'' square nose 4 flute end mill for the edges.

Maybe something like this for the flats:
 
J. Keeton said:
That's awesome!

I think in order to make this procedure work with my setup, I'll have to go with a much smaller diameter insert end mill to face the flats. I'm thinking of trying out this 1'' carbide insert end mill.

I'll try a 1/2'' square nose 4 flute end mill for the edges.

Maybe something like this for the flats:
Click to expand...


Yeah. Now that I have a better understanding of the machine tool you'll be using I think it's possible that a 3" facemill might not give you the best results in steel on that mill. Honestly I don't know what your best approach would be, but I can tell you that an indexable endmill like you show there hammers pretty bad if you're trying to remove much material and a simple solid carbide endmill often works best.
 
TommyGun56 said:
Nathan, can i get your thoughts on AEB-L?
Click to expand...

Why do we like particle metallurgy steels? They don't have the large primary carbides that tend to propagate cracking and chipping. They tend to be processed in a way where they're clean, fine grain and don't have pesky structures like excessive grain boundary carbide, nonmetallic inclusions, and alloy banding. <--- PM steels are so associated with these positive attributes that people tend to think the correlation is causation. The reality is the PM process allows certain alloys to be made such as high vanadium alloys that wouldn't be practical due to difference in melting temperatures of various ingredients, and if the properties of that certain alloy aren't needed sometimes a very clean, cross rolled electroslag remelt can out perform PM steel in some ways. Infi is a good example of an old technology that performs very well.

People often think the best steels have to be PM steel, but, like Infi, AEB-L is a moderate alloy, moderate carbon relatively simple steel that would not be enhanced by the PM process. And, what it lacks in abrasion resistance it makes up for in edge stability. This is true in any application where the loss of the edge is due more to chipping and yielding than one of the abrasion processes. Despite artificial results like you see in cut testing like CATRA testing that give a strong preference to abrasion resistance, for most people in most real world applications edge stability is king and this is where AEB-L shines. You have a stain resistant steel that works great at hardness in the low 60's and in thin geometry. It's clean, it can be fine grain, it loves narrow edge angles and rewards good geometry and a good heat treat with world class edge stability. What's not to love?
 
Nathan the Machinist said:
Yeah. Now that I have a better understanding of the machine tool you'll be using I think it's possible that a 3" facemill might not give you the best results in steel on that mill. Honestly I don't know what your best approach would be, but I can tell you that an indexable endmill like you show there hammers pretty bad if you're trying to remove much material and a simple solid carbide endmill often works best.
Click to expand...

Thanks Nathan. A square nose 4 flute 1/2'' end mill will probably be my best bet... coupled with patience!
 
Nathan the Machinist said:
Why do we like particle metallurgy steels? They don't have the large primary carbides that tend to propagate cracking and chipping. They tend to be processed in a way where they're clean, fine grain and don't have pesky structures like excessive grain boundary carbide, nonmetallic inclusions, and alloy banding. <--- PM steels are so associated with these positive attributes that people tend to think the correlation is causation. The reality is the PM process allows certain alloys to be made such as high vanadium alloys that wouldn't be practical due to difference in melting temperatures of various ingredients, and if the properties of that certain alloy aren't needed sometimes a very clean, cross rolled electroslag remelt can out perform PM steel in some ways. Infi is a good example of an old technology that performs very well.

People often think the best steels have to be PM steel, but, like Infi, AEB-L is a moderate alloy, moderate carbon relatively simple steel that would not be enhanced by the PM process. And, what it lacks in abrasion resistance it makes up for in edge stability. This is true in any application where the loss of the edge is due more to chipping and yielding than one of the abrasion processes. Despite artificial results like you see in cut testing like CATRA testing that give a strong preference to abrasion resistance, for most people in most real world applications edge stability is king and this is where AEB-L shines. You have a stain resistant steel that works great at hardness in the low 60's and in thin geometry. It's clean, it can be fine grain, it loves narrow edge angles and rewards good geometry and a good heat treat with world class edge stability. What's not to love?
Click to expand...

I am really hoping that you would consider offering 2 versions of the upcoming FK 2.0, one in your vaunted D3V with more or less the same attributes and characteristics of its predecessor and the other with a a narrower edge angle in AEB-L that's more stainless which can be used in the kitchen. Unless you may also considering the AEB-L steel for the DEK1?
 
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