The Bears' Den--Shirogorov Showcase

[ChazzyP]

So, if Thursday is Turtle Day in the Shirogorov faith, then Friday must be FR Day. That's Framelock Friday or Flipper Friday in other religions, though those also apply in this case, many Shiro devotees such as myself being non-Sectarian. While an F3R is on my want list--my Python being a "mere" F3--my only R Series is my F95R with its 3.5 mm Skinny blade in Vanax 37. It's just an excellent knife for EDC--great in pocket, great in hand, a superb cutter, fun to fondle and flip, and a damn fine-looking blade to boot.

 

[TRfromMT]

These two compete for nearly all my pocket time. I recently picked up the white CF, M390, F3R, and I have had the F95T for maybe a year. The turtle has been, without a doubt, my favorite knife of all time. Until the F3R came along. Now It may be a tie.

Here's what I like about the F3R that is different from the Turtle.

The handles have a 3D surface. The contouring fills the hand just a bit more than the flat sided Ti scales. These almost feel like a well made fixed blade handle (man, this knife in a Fixer! Just imagine... ). This handle is just astounding, and I think the Turtle handle is pretty near perfect already.

I like that there is just a hint more resistance to closing. The blade does not drop shut like the guillotine-like action of my Turtle. I have to actually close it with my thumb or finger riding it closed, or purposely shake it closed. I prefer this.

I like the liner lock. I like the frame lock. But the liner lock does not get pressed further locked in a firm grip. It so far has the perfect engagement, right out of the box.

Since getting the Shiro F95T there have been a few more high-dollar folders come my way. All of them have been sold again. The Turtle spoiled me, in that any other knife in this category (high end production) get's really carefully scrutinized. I critique a $400+ knife much more closely than I would a $200- ZT or a Spydie, and nitpicks just don't sit well with me when I get to this end of the price spectrum. I am not sure why, but finding a minor inconvenience when I get to this kind of knife means it goes right into the catch and release category.

The F3R therefore had the deck stacked against it from the start. I saved and sold some other prize pieces to get this, all the while hoping I wasn't going to kick myself later (one fixed blade in particular would not at all be easily replaced). This knife basically had one shot in 100 to make the cut.

To this, add the criteria that it had to just be "different enough" from the Turtle that I would not feel like it was merely a duplicate knife. I don't have duplicates. Just not me.

So the verdict after all this - it is now among my favorite, all time. Where the F3R has a difference from the Turtle, it is somehow more excellent in my mind. This is simply an exceptional knife.

 

[Tigerden]

Man really loving that white carbon fiber handle scales on the F3R TRfromMT . My 95T Bronze is my go to EDC knife but I am really thinking long and hard now about a Shiro with CF scales.

 

[TRfromMT]

Man really loving that white carbon fiber handle scales on the F3R TRfromMT . My 95T Bronze is my go to EDC knife but I am really thinking long and hard now about a Shiro with CF scales.

Can't tell you how I have longed for a Pero, but that's just not in the cards. But, dang it if this isn't everything I've ever hoped for. You won't regret it.

 

[mpjustin]

Today’s carry

 

[teddyashe]

If y'all had the choice between Shiro s90v and M390 - which would you take?

This has been discussed before but I'm looking for anyone with a decent amount of experience with both steels.

 

[TRfromMT]

If y'all had the choice between Shiro s90v and M390 - which would you take?

This has been discussed before but I'm looking for anyone with a decent amount of experience with both steels.

I had one in s90v for only a short time and never sharpened it. No qualified experience really. I did just get one in m390 with only a mediocre edge, straight from the factory. Sharpened very nicely, only ordinary effort. I would have no qualms recommending m390 for this reason - it sharpens very well.

 

[ChazzyP]

If y'all had the choice between Shiro s90v and M390 - which would you take?

This has been discussed before but I'm looking for anyone with a decent amount of experience with both steels.

I have a lot of M390 in Shiros and other maker's knives and it's one of my very favorite steels--reasonably easy to sharpen, takes a very keen edge, and holds it well.

I've had, and still have, a few knives is S90V, though no Shiros. I know that S90V is perhaps Sergey's favorite steel and it's why it's used on many of his higher end knives--CDs, collabs, and full customs. I'm not a big fan of S90V, finding it laborious to sharpen with some knives I've had in it demonstrating chippy brittleness at the edge. That said, Shiro does such a great job with their heat-treats, that I have little doubt that their version of that steel likely is very good.

Still, I'm an M390 kinda guy....

 

[ChazzyP]

Can't tell you how I have longed for a Pero, but that's just not in the cards. But, dang it if this isn't everything I've ever hoped for. You won't regret it.

Couldn't quite pull the trigger on that Pero you liked on the Exchange, eh? Pretty reasonable there and the one in July for the same price as a new F95 at R1. I was tempted a bit, but find that being broke is a great way to avoid over-spending on knives.

There are knives I'd like to have, but figure any purchases now will come from the proceeds of sales (like most of the few I've bought in the last year). I'm slowly selling down, but still am keeping most of my numerous Spydies, BMs, as I carry and use most of them, along with my CRKs, Hinderers, and Chebs. I'm down to 4 ZT's and some higher-end singles. I could really let a lot more go, but am in no rush.

Shiros are still center stage, though....

 

[TRfromMT]

Couldn't quite pull the trigger on that Pero you liked on the Exchange, eh? Pretty reasonable there and the one in July for the same price as a new F95 at R1. I was tempted a bit, but find that being broke is a great way to avoid over-spending on knives.

There are knives I'd like to have, but figure any purchases now will come from the proceeds of sales (like most of the few I've bought in the last year). I'm slowly selling down, but still am keeping most of my numerous Spydies, BMs, as I carry and use most of them, along with my CRKs, Hinderers, and Chebs. I'm down to 4 ZT's and some higher-end singles. I could really let a lot more go, but am in no rush.

Shiros are still center stage, though....

Yeah, I keep the knife budget on a pretty tight leash, too. The Pero will remain one I long for, a grail(?), but that will have to do. Maybe if the prices continue to trend down, but they'd have to trend a long way before I'd be comfortable using one.

 

[Comprehensivist]

View attachment 1189064

These two compete for nearly all my pocket time. I recently picked up the white CF, M390, F3R, and I have had the F95T for maybe a year. The turtle has been, without a doubt, my favorite knife of all time. Until the F3R came along. Now It may be a tie.

Here's what I like about the F3R that is different from the Turtle.

The handles have a 3D surface. The contouring fills the hand just a bit more than the flat sided Ti scales. These almost feel like a well made fixed blade handle (man, this knife in a Fixer! Just imagine... ). This handle is just astounding, and I think the Turtle handle is pretty near perfect already.

I like that there is just a hint more resistance to closing. The blade does not drop shut like the guillotine-like action of my Turtle. I have to actually close it with my thumb or finger riding it closed, or purposely shake it closed. I prefer this.

I like the liner lock. I like the frame lock. But the liner lock does not get pressed further locked in a firm grip. It so far has the perfect engagement, right out of the box.

Since getting the Shiro F95T there have been a few more high-dollar folders come my way. All of them have been sold again. The Turtle spoiled me, in that any other knife in this category (high end production) get's really carefully scrutinized. I critique a $400+ knife much more closely than I would a $200- ZT or a Spydie, and nitpicks just don't sit well with me when I get to this end of the price spectrum. I am not sure why, but finding a minor inconvenience when I get to this kind of knife means it goes right into the catch and release category.

The F3R therefore had the deck stacked against it from the start. I saved and sold some other prize pieces to get this, all the while hoping I wasn't going to kick myself later (one fixed blade in particular would not at all be easily replaced). This knife basically had one shot in 100 to make the cut.

To this, add the criteria that it had to just be "different enough" from the Turtle that I would not feel like it was merely a duplicate knife. I don't have duplicates. Just not me.

So the verdict after all this - it is now among my favorite, all time. Where the F3R has a difference from the Turtle, it is somehow more excellent in my mind. This is simply an exceptional knife.

Congratulations on pulling the trigger on your F3R and finding that it exceeds your expectations. You sacrificed an amazing CPK UF with custom scales and sheath to help fund it. That was a tough decision I’m sure. I am glad that it worked out so well for you.

We share some similar tastes in knives. About six months ago, I paid a visit to Recon1 to see what all the positive hype for Shirogorovs was about. I got to handle just about every model from entry level F3 to collaboration to full custom while I was there. My favorite of all of them was the F3R. I took some pictures of the knife before I left the shop to mull over the idea of buying what would be the most expensive folder I ever purchased. It just so happens that the one I liked had the white infused carbon fiber like yours.





Later I wondered if I was missing something because it seemed that none of the serious Shiro folks spoke much about this model. My 2nd favorite model was the F95T that everyone loves. The turtle milling pattern in the scales is both visually attractive and utilitarian for the improved tactile grip it provides over plain flat scales.

Last week I finally pulled the trigger on the white carbon fiber F3R because CF on both sides with 3-D contouring feels and looks the best to me. The liner lock on this model locks up very smoothly and securely with no worry about accidental lockbar pressure preventing a clean flip opening.

You have my two favorite Shiro models. I will likely be content with the F3R as my one and only Shiro. If I get tempted by another someday, it will be the F95T. I appreciate your comparison observations of both knives. That helped push me over the edge on making my purchase decision.

Thanks!

Phil

P.S. - I like your idea for a fixed blade version of this knife. It remains to be seen if the upcoming CPK DEK1 will fill that slot ergonomically and size-wise.

 

[Stumpy72]

Congratulations on pulling the trigger on your F3R and finding that it exceeds your expectations..... My 2nd favorite model was the F95T that everyone loves. The turtle milling pattern in the scales is both visually attractive and utilitarian for the improved tactile grip it provides over plain flat scales..... Last week I finally pulled the trigger on the white carbon fiber F3R because CF on both sides with 3-D contouring feels and looks the best to me..... I will likely be content with the F3R as my one and only Shiro. If I get tempted by another someday, it will be the F95T.

I envy your being able to visit R1 and handle all the different models. I don’t have that option, so I have to go with what looks and sounds best based on internet input. I ended up starting with a 95T (had to get that iconic, “THE” Shiro model) first. I’m now reading about and eyeballing the F3R, and I’ll probably end up pulling the trigger on one before too long.

 

["Havoc"]

I had an F3R last year and sold it since I have the 95T....regretted it a day after I sold it. But since I broke even and it allowed me to purchase something else I was eyeballing it was just fine.

And since I just picked up an F3R from Recon1 a couple of weeks ago, all is good again

I also picked up the White CF F3R

Just the best feeling Shiro in hand in my opinion!

 

["Havoc"]

Picked me up some SRRBS to see what all the fuss is about.

****
(Edit): This F3R did in fact come with MRBS. I replaced the MRBS with SRRBS.
You should be able to tell looking at the pics. Reason for the Vernier was to show the Rollers are the same thickness as the bearing.

First picture is the completed swap. Just placed it first to grab attention.
****

It’s definitely a completely different feeling compared to the MRBS. The MRBS is a much more Drop shut Guillotine your thumb, where as the SRRBS is not, which I myself like.

But one thing that was surprising is that the blade Flies open much faster on the SRRBS.
Also, it feels more solid, kind of hard to explain, but it’s a noticeable difference.

Like I said, I myself very much like it’s not so free-fall anymore. It just takes a little downward nudge and it shuts perfectly.

FYI....One the F3R this year they use a Shiro style screw to hold the Titanium subframe together. This can be easily removed, just use some folded up tinfoil with a smaller flathead to make a tight fit. Pic attached at very bottom.

 

[TRfromMT]

Picked me up some SRRBS to see what all the fuss is about.

It’s definitely a completely different feeling compared to the MRBS. The MRBS is a much more Drop shut Guillotine your thumb, where as the SRRBS is not, which I myself like.

But one thing that was surprising is that the blade Flies open much faster on the SRRBS.
Also, it feels more solid, kind of hard to explain, but it’s a noticeable difference.

Like I said, I myself very much like it’s not so free-fall anymore. It just takes a little downward nudge and it shuts perfectly.

FYI....One the F3R this year they use a Shiro style screw to hold the Titanium subframe together. This can be easily removed, just use some folded up tinfoil with a smaller flathead to make a tight fit. Pic attached at very bottom.

My brain is not quite grasping the significance of this post, but encoded in my genetic, primal instinct tells me this is very important. My brain is saying, "Oh, this is cool..." but my gut and the hairs on the back of my neck are saying, "wait.... pay very close attention.... this. is. different."

Want.

.

 

["Havoc"]

My brain is not quite grasping the significance of this post, but encoded in my genetic, primal instinct tells me this is very important. My brain is saying, "Oh, this is cool..." but my gut and the hairs on the back of my neck are saying, "wait.... pay very close attention.... this. is. different."

Want.

.

TRfromMT

Swapped out the original MRBS for the SRRBS system. Put the micrometer on both to show they are both the same size and Specs. Very easy swap. Hardest part was removing the liner screw. The screw in the last pic. Shiro uses the small Shiro style screw instead of the torx on the older F3. This can be a pain as it’s in tight. But using the tinfoil fill the gap on a thin small flathead and works perfect.

 

[Comprehensivist]

Picked me up some SRRBS to see what all the fuss is about.

****
(Edit): This F3R did in fact come with MRBS. I replaced the MRBS with SRRBS.
You should be able to tell looking at the pics. Reason for the Micrometer was to show the Rollers are the same thickness as the bearing.

First picture is the completed swap. Just placed it first to grab attention.
****

It’s definitely a completely different feeling compared to the MRBS. The MRBS is a much more Drop shut Guillotine your thumb, where as the SRRBS is not, which I myself like.

But one thing that was surprising is that the blade Flies open much faster on the SRRBS.
Also, it feels more solid, kind of hard to explain, but it’s a noticeable difference.

Like I said, I myself very much like it’s not so free-fall anymore. It just takes a little downward nudge and it shuts perfectly.

FYI....One the F3R this year they use a Shiro style screw to hold the Titanium subframe together. This can be easily removed, just use some folded up tinfoil with a smaller flathead to make a tight fit. Pic attached at very bottom.

My brain is not quite grasping the significance of this post, but encoded in my genetic, primal instinct tells me this is very important. My brain is saying, "Oh, this is cool..." but my gut and the hairs on the back of my neck are saying, "wait.... pay very close attention.... this. is. different."

Want.

.

Thanks for an interesting post, both in comments and photos.

As a very new first time Shiro owner, I am curious what condition in the standard F3R led you to try this swap? From an increased surface area contact perspective, I understand why the roller SRRBS set-up would feel more "solid" than multiple round ball bearings with less total contact area. Are the new bearings a Shiro OEM item or an aftermarket product? Are these the same style bearing as on the standard F3?

I don't foresee doing any modifications to my F3R. It is spectacular as-is. That doesn't mean I am not curious to learn the how and why others modify their knive(s).

Thanks!

Phil

 

["Havoc"]

Thanks for an interesting post, both in comments and photos.

As a very new first time Shiro owner, I am curious what condition in the standard F3R led you to try this swap? From an increased surface area contact perspective, I understand why the roller SRRBS set-up would feel more "solid" than multiple round ball bearings with less total contact area. Are the new bearings a Shiro OEM item or an aftermarket product? Are these the same style bearing as on the standard F3?

I don't foresee doing any modifications to my F3R. It is spectacular as-is. That doesn't mean I am not curious to learn the how and why others modify their knive(s).

Thanks!

Phil

Hello Phil,

The F3R is the newer version of the F3.
The older F3 has Single Row Bearing System - SRBS.
The updated and newer F3R has the Multi Row Bearing System - MRBS.
The ones I installed are called the Single Row Roller Bearing System - SRRBS.
Hope that clarifies a little.

My new (3 week old) F3R out the box was great, nothing wrong with it. But I always wanted to see what the CD versions felt like with the SRRBS in them. I live in Honolulu, Hawaii and cannot put my hands on any CD versions. I found these SRRBS from a super reputable builder in Russia and figured what the heck.

They didn’t cost much at all and even scored me an inexpensive Shiro take-down tool to disassemble the F3R (forgot about the liner screw until I opened it, lol). So all-in-all it was just me wanting to find out what the CD versions felt like by using my own F3R. I actually like it, and yes, since the rollers offer more surface area it does give it a more substantial feel. Well, that’s just my take.

So no crazy reason to Mod my F3R other than that. Also figured I would put up some pics in case others were interested, that’s why we’re all here
So hope the people interested enjoyed the post.
Feel free to ask any questions, always happy to help if I can

Thanks,
Rich

 

[Officer's Match]

I've always been fascinated yet conflicted regarding the roller bearings, particularly in a single row arrangement. Not sure if I'll be able to articulate this, but it seems to my mind that the round ball bearings can simply rotate whereas the rollers, arrayed radially, will have to "glide" across the blade tang surface, at least some portion of the roller. In a ball setup, the outer (furthest from the pivot) can rotate independent of the inner - their arc's are different lengths traveled simultaneously. The roller however must rotate as one piece, meaning there has to be slip involved. Hope that makes sense, although likely it simply explains my own lack of understanding how bearings actually work.

 

[Sharp & Fiery]

Im not sure either Officer's Match
If the rollers are flat...i would think that there is some “gliding” going on. But if they are tapered properly, they should roll?
Anyone here that is informed to answer this quiry? Im interested too, as i would also like to try the MRRBS in my 95T.