the fallacy of firesteels

Standard78 said:
963515f6a28d288ba2896ff271094441.jpg

Yeah it overkill, but it doesn't weigh much and there are no rules when it comes to making fires.
Ferro rods aren't the easiest, but they're fun.
I'm no "Frontiersman", but I'm damn sure that they never used batteries or Bic lighters. If a certain person wants to act like a true Frontiersman, shut the power off, put your phone down and get to work. There are no rules when it comes to surviving.
Click to expand...

Nice kit! :thumbup:
 
I keep a firesteel in my pack on day hikes and weekend trips all the time. However it's not my ONLY tool. Typically a mini-bic lighter and a pill bottle with storm matches are always accompanying it.

And If I feel like playing around and having a bit of a challenge, a fire piston. But I'm looking to that bic and those matches if I ever end up in a SOL situation in the back country. The only time I've ever had to light a fire in a hurry was after a fellow hiker fell in a swollen creek in October, and several of us wound up soaked just trying to un-wedge him from the rocks his pack frame was caught in. The only time I can say I ever made a new campsite on the trail and had very little concern for Leave No Trace principles.
 
sutured said:
Seems like pretty much everyone has a firesteel lashed to their knife sheath, keychain, "survival kit" etc.. I've even seen firesteel blanks made into line tensioners so the tie down on your rain fly can double as a fire source. It's become the go-to firelighter; what everyone on U-tube uses and so it must be what all the cool kids cary. A lot of people seem to believe that a firesteel is the ultimate fire starter when things are "real bad". It's got me thinking, and the more I think about it, the less sense it makes to me.

The following scenario is one I've actually been though, but it wouldn't be hard to recreate the basic situation in a dozen different ways.

Let's say you're out fishing on a river in the fall. The fishing is fantastic, and you don't even notice that the sun is rapidly leaving the deep canyon you've chosen for chasing rainbows. Cold legs and a long day and a swift current conspire and you loose your footing at just the wrong moment, and now you're swimming in the current, getting carried downstream. The safety belt on your waders keeps you from turning into a sea-anchor, but its a hundred meters and two good blows to your right knee before you can scramble to shore.

Now you're on the opposite bank on a small gravel bar that's cliffed out on the upstream and downstream side. The only way out is by going back into the water...something that's not very appealing right now. You're soaked, already shivering, and it's forty-five-degrees and dropping. Lucky for you the gravel bar you're on has a large dead pine that was deposited during a flood in the past, but there are no twigs...just barkless branches terminating to a thickness of your thumb. Deep in the river canyon the sun rarely shines and everything has been wet for weeks. When you go to break off a branch the wood is rubbery and slick. You were on the verge of being cold before you fell in the river and now you can't touch your pinky to your thumb. Your well-supplied day pack is hanging in a tree half a mile upstream where you left it when you started fishing in ernest. It might as well be on the moon for all the good it's doing you, but on the other hand you'd have likely drown if you were wearing it. You've got your edc knife and your edc fire starter and enough wood to last the night and then some, if you can get it lit. But the best you're going to come up with for tinder is whatever shavings of damp, rubbery wood you can make before your hands are too cold to function. You have roughly ten minutes to get a fire established or you're going to die.

Of all the edc fire starters a person could pull out of their pocket right now, a firesteel is probably one of the worst.

My typical fire starters:
P1030980.jpg


Now I have several firesteels...ones I play with, and ones that are tucked into this kit or that. I enjoy them, and I find them very efficient under the right circumstances. But as far as a way to light a fire when you really need a fire, they suck. Compared to a lot of other things a person could cary, firesteels are one of the worst fire lighting devices available today for someone who really needs a fire RIGHT NOW, rather than someone who enjoys playing with fire making.

The reason I say this is because firesteels are dependent on very fine, very dry, very flammable tinder. Without the purest of tinder a firesteel will never get a fire lit, as the spark has no ability to dry out or preheat inferior tinder. This fine tinder is available in the wild if you know how to find it, but finding it in adverse conditions requires a fair amount of mobility. If for some reason you're stuck making a fire where you sit, either due to geography or injury, that fine tinder may very well not be available. I can think of hundreds of locations I've made camp where such fine tinder was not within a reasonable distance, and creating that tinder from the materials at hand required both a knife and/or ax, two working hands, and a hell of a lot more dexterity and time than a really cold person could ever afford.

So people cary their own tinder...vasaline on cotton, dryer lint, hand sanitizer (one of the dumbest IMO), and every other conceivably portable gimmick that might catch fire from a spark. This is all well and fine and there are conditions where carrying your own tinder makes good sense regardless of your ignition source, but it pretty much defeats any of the proposed advantages of the firesteel. Proponents of the 'steel say it's simple, reliable, long lasting, waterproof, and compact, and all of that is true, but not if you have to cary your tinder with you.

So what's a better solution for simplicity, reliability, portability, and the actual ability to get a fire lit in less than ideal conditions? Well I've given the subject a lot of thought and a lot of research, and I believe that the ultimate system that fulfills all of those requirements is.... a match safe with storm matches, and, er, a firesteel.

K&M long matchsafe
P1030986.jpg


Kitchen match and storm match.
P1030978.jpg


Let me explain: I have a K&M long matchsafe that holds 14 REI storm matches, two strikers, and a 3/16 firesteel. This is, to me, the ultimate solution for what a person could cary anywhere without it being a burden and still get a fire going under almost any conditions.

The matchsafe is double-O-ring protected against moisture, and the cap is held in place with a remarkably simple and effective cord system. I've used it for years, and I trust the O-ring system on this matchsafe as much as I trust the O-rings in my SCUBA equipment when I'm 260 feet under the sea breathing Nitrox. Simply put, so long as the O-rings are intact this matchsafe will not leak. Ever. K&M even includes a set of replacement O-rings with the safe, as well as a second cord and an instruction pamphlet. The matches in this safe are going to be dry when I need them; of that I have no doubt.

Double O-rings and a precision fit ensure waterproofness.
P1030975.jpg


A storm match creates a twelve-second windproof flame that is many, many orders of magnitude more efficient at igniting tinder than any firesteel. They burn hot, long, and reliably regardless of wind or moisture. They will ignite course or poor tinder...kindling even, that a firesteel won't even make a char mark on. They light after sitting in water...they even burn under water.

This goes on for twelve seconds before you even reach the wooden matchstick:
P1030984.jpg


On top of that, a storm match is much easier to bring to your tinder pile than a firesteel. Tinder piles tend to be fragile things where the construction is as important as the material, and when it's sleeting sideways and it's all you can do to protect your fuel from wind and sleet, trying to get a firesteel into the tinder and strike it without scattering your collection can be a challenge. And finally, a match doesn't require two hands to use. There are one-handed firesteels, but they still require that your tinder pile sits securely on a hard surface so you can depress the striker.

The matchsafe is larger than a firesteel, but it weighs very little. It actually weighs less than the 3/8 firesteel I use to play around with. I'm hyper-sensitive to weight, especially weight in my pockets, and the matchsafe rides in my pocket day-in and day-out unnoticed. The cord can be securely affixed to a button or girth hitched to a belt loop. There's even a compass in the cap which is surprisingly accurate. Attaching the matchsafe to a knife sheath would be simple, if that's how you like to cary your fire starter.

So long as you have your pants, you'll have your matchsafe.
P1030987.jpg


I don't use the matches as my regular fire starter. On any given cold-weather trip to the bush I might be lighting a fire four times a day, plus lighting a gas stove, burning paracord ends, etc.. My regular fire source is a peanut lighter or a butane lighter, or a firesteel if I'm in the mood to screw around. The matchsafe is my back-up, and it's what I use if conditions are such that it's impractical to use a lighter.

Twice a year I replace the matches with fresh ones. I'm not sure why...the old ones I take out work just fine, but I feel better doing it that way, and the matches are cheap. The 3/16 firesteel takes the place of one match, but it gives me a way of starting fires under better conditions if for some reason my match safe is my only fire kit, and it gives me a second way of igniting the matches if the strikers are somehow compromised.

Now obviously I'm not anti-firesteel, I just think they are a poor solution to making a fire when a person needs a fire the most. I think the real value of a firesteel is that if a person regularly uses one to light fires WITH LOCAL MATERIALS, they will learn more about finding tinder and fire lighting than the match and lighter group ever will. On the other hand, someone using a firesteel to light vasaline covered cotton or WetFire really isn't learning anything. They'd learn more by using a kitchen match.

I see some firesteels that have a tinder compartment attached to them. I don't entirely understand them. They are large, heavy, expensive, and near as I can tell don't hold enough tinder for 14 fire starts. But I guess they make more sense than having the tinder separate.

Keep the firesteels for fun and utility, but don't rely on them when its critical.
Click to expand...

Bic lighter. I can blow a wet Bic out and have it flaming in less than a minute-no matter how wet it got. Stainless steel and plastic don't absorb water.

Hell, anyone can. I do admit though, I rip the childproof band off with my Leatherman, as soon as I get them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Last edited:
Standard78 said:
963515f6a28d288ba2896ff271094441.jpg

Yeah it overkill, but it doesn't weigh much and there are no rules when it comes to making fires.
Ferro rods aren't the easiest, but they're fun.
I'm no "Frontiersman", but I'm damn sure that they never used batteries or Bic lighters. If a certain person wants to act like a true Frontiersman, shut the power off, put your phone down and get to work. There are no rules when it comes to surviving.
Click to expand...

But frontiersmen didn't have survive! knives! :D
Just kidding! Nice kit! :) :thumbup:
 
I was on the north shore of lake Athabasca in the winter at Minus freakin cold. It was so cold that my lighter and hands were not cooperating. I will take whatever I need and much more to feel safe and prepared
 
Fire steels are excellent backups, I carry one. However, I would never go into the woods with just a fire steel. Fire is too important to not have redundancy. A big lighter is a much better first choice.

If it's not urgent I practice making fires with my fire steels, it's a good skill to have. But If I really need a fire in a hurry I always have a bic lighter and some waterproof matches that are getting used before the fire steel.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
But if things do not go according to plan, and the God Murphy appears, will you be able to use the "backup." If not, why have it?
 
to hell with the fatwood. give me the same bulk/weight of waxed cotton rope, with a bit of tubing as a "flame adjustor". . I favor a ferrorod and a magnesium block, but also a freznel lense, a chunk of insulated wire for shorting a battery, a lighter, charred punkwood in a skoal can, a little beeswax candle (3 wicks) in a skoal can, a few stormproof matches. Fire is way too vital to not have lots of ways to get it going, in the worst of conditions.

here's the rope

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6d_jbm6iCTE

here's the old master

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ja4gnTAoNzU

most enjoyable guy on youtube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7PSC4l0djk
 
Last edited:
Standard78 said:
963515f6a28d288ba2896ff271094441.jpg

Yeah it overkill, but it doesn't weigh much and there are no rules when it comes to making fires.
Ferro rods aren't the easiest, but they're fun.
I'm no "Frontiersman", but I'm damn sure that they never used batteries or Bic lighters. If a certain person wants to act like a true Frontiersman, shut the power off, put your phone down and get to work. There are no rules when it comes to surviving.
Click to expand...

Definitely like your fire kit and I'm the same way. I want multiple ways to be able to make a fire in any condition. I don't usually use my firesteel, unless I'm playing around because the mini-Bic I'd so much easier. Is that the GSO 5? I have a several Survive! Knives and love them.
 
tranee said:
to hell with the fatwood. give me the same bulk/weight of waxed cotton rope, with a bit of tubing as a "flame adjustor". . I favor a ferrorod and a magnesium block, but also a freznel lense, a chunk of insulated wire for shorting a battery, a lighter, charred punkwood in a skoal can, a little beeswax candle (3 wicks) in a skoal can, a few stormproof matches. Fire is way too vital to not have lots of ways to get it going, in the worst of conditions.

here's the rope

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6d_jbm6iCTE

here's the old master

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ja4gnTAoNzU

most enjoyable guy on youtube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7PSC4l0djk
Click to expand...

Would twin work the same as cotton rope? I was thinking about just getting a length of twine and twisting it into a rope and dipping it in wax.
 
As many have alluded to, the fallacy is not the fire steel. The fallacy is having only a fire steel.
 
"I remember hundreds of camps without tinder being within reasonable distance".....and you STILL don't carry tinder? That's slow learnin'....
 
I'd just ignore anything Tranee said. If you want to build yourself that kind of match, then you have to experiment with the material itself. I found that out when I made some tinder tabs. They lit great the day I made them, two weeks later, love nor money could get them to go. back to the drawing board, turns out too much wax made them harder to light, not enough allowed them to absorb moisture from the air and not light for that reason.

At the end of the day, I'd like to have as many skills as possible, and ferro-rod fire is one that requires practice. I'd rather light 99 fires that way, and have something else as a backup, knowing I still stood a fighting chance with the ferro rod if it came to it, rather than ignore it and risk relying on something else that might let me down. a ferro rod is the longest lasting, most tries, most durable firelighter I can think of. But treating it like the easiest way to light fires mis-represents it. If I could do reliable friction fires in under 5 minutes, I'd do it that way at every opportunity. I liken it to training with weights. You gotta know the rules to break them, and the only way to get better is to light fires in harder and harder conditions.
 
Thomas Linton said:
But if things do not go according to plan, and the God Murphy appears, will you be able to use the "backup." If not, why have it?
Click to expand...

Is this a serious question? This is a forum dedicated to knives. I really thought the whole "have it and not need it" thing would have sunk in by now. Look, if stuff goes down and your backup doesn't work, then you're out less than an ounce of weight. By your logic, what is the point in even trying. If your primary goes out, based on your statement, then why even have a secondary because some crazy crap could happen and neutralize that too. So, what's your solution since a back up is just useless because of Murphy's Law?
 
I get this thread has been necro'd, but since we are there already...

I have never ever bore witness to any outdoorsman who claimed a firesteel to be the ideal method of making fire. The entire initial post was just an exercise in telling everyone what they should already know: bring a decently reliable source of fire then a firesteel as a potential backup. Good lord, would anyone really forego matches or a lighter for just a firesteel? I seriously doubt it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top