the fallacy of firesteels

[Thomas Linton]

Is this a serious question? This is a forum dedicated to knives. I really thought the whole "have it and not need it" thing would have sunk in by now. Look, if stuff goes down and your backup doesn't work, then you're out less than an ounce of weight. By your logic, what is the point in even trying. If your primary goes out, based on your statement, then why even have a secondary because some crazy crap could happen and neutralize that too. So, what's your solution since a back up is just useless because of Murphy's Law?

It was related by a member that if he needed a fire in a hurry, he never used a ferro rod.

It seemed to me that not practicing for the real world with all the fire-starting methods you carry is less than optimal. You may desperately need to use the back-up method - the back-up tool. Without practice, it indeed may be useless as a practical matter.

If I misread collim1's post, I apologize. You certainly misread mine.

Did that sink in?

 

[Gaston444]

I get this thread has been necro'd, but since we are there already...

I have never ever bore witness to any outdoorsman who claimed a firesteel to be the ideal method of making fire. The entire initial post was just an exercise in telling everyone what they should already know: bring a decently reliable source of fire then a firesteel as a potential backup. Good lord, would anyone really forego matches or a lighter for just a firesteel? I seriously doubt it.

Then why so many "Survival Knives" -of the Bushcraft-type so fashionable these days- have only a prominent leather loop for the firesteel as an accessory, and no pouch or hollow handle to carry anything else?

Often these knives don't even have a sharpener, but they do have the firesteel... And it is usually a fairly big one: It seems to me that it is meant as more than a mere back-up...

Gaston

 

[Brhowser87]

All this talk got me motivated today to do something ive been meaning to do for awhile. A little experiment if you will.
Im not sure if this is common knowledge and im just lat to the party or what but i figured id share anyway.

Travel sized Advil containers are waterproof. Ive been eyeing these for awhile. So this evening i took the 2 i had put paper towles inside and submerged them in a cup of water for 2 hours. When i pulled the spoon off that i was using to hold them under they popped right to the top, so they also float. Hopefully someone can get some use out of this.

Fire Steel and striker (All BG removed) and the two mentioned containers

6 waterproof matches and striker box

 

[Thomas Linton]

Then why so many "Survival Knives" -of the Bushcraft-type so fashionable these days- have only a prominent leather loop for the firesteel as an accessory, and no pouch or hollow handle to carry anything else?

Often these knives don't even have a sharpener, but they do have the firesteel... And it is usually a fairly big one: It seems to me that it is meant as more than a mere back-up...

Gaston

The ferro rod belongs in a waterproof container or cover of some kind. They corrode easily once the (usual) protective coating is breached.

Unless you're selling ferro rods.

 

[Murdamook]

Then why so many "Survival Knives" -of the Bushcraft-type so fashionable these days- have only a prominent leather loop for the firesteel as an accessory, and no pouch or hollow handle to carry anything else?

Often these knives don't even have a sharpener, but they do have the firesteel... And it is usually a fairly big one: It seems to me that it is meant as more than a mere back-up...

Gaston

For one, most companies aren't crafting one-piece knives like CRK. The ferro-rod loop gives the option, at least. But again, I have never heard an outdoorsman suggest carrying only a ferro-rod.

 

[Murdamook]

It was related by a member that if he needed a fire in a hurry, he never used a ferro rod.

It seemed to me that not practicing for the real world with all the fire-starting methods you carry is less than optimal. You may desperately need to use the back-up method - the back-up tool. Without practice, it indeed may be useless as a practical matter.

If I misread collim1's post, I apologize. You certainly misread mine.

Did that sink in?

Perhaps you should learn to use that little "reply with quote" button a bit more effectively; it can really add context. As for deciphering your post: instead of being an irrelevant stream about the uselessness of an item, it's an irrelevant stream about training that may or may not be an agreement post to collim1's? That makes it better.

 

[Murdamook]

Then why so many "Survival Knives" -of the Bushcraft-type so fashionable these days- have only a prominent leather loop for the firesteel as an accessory, and no pouch or hollow handle to carry anything else?

Often these knives don't even have a sharpener, but they do have the firesteel... And it is usually a fairly big one: It seems to me that it is meant as more than a mere back-up...

Gaston

Let me amend my statement. I think that a lot of people are currently using firesteels as primary ignition devices. They're far more capable when it comes to repeated use than are matches or a lighter. I think that's why they're so popular at the moment. What I meant by my post is that having redundancies-and trustworthy ones, at that-is important. I'd imagine any outdoorsman or bushcrafter worth his salt would be carrying at least some stormproof matches in addition to the firesteel.

 

[upnorth]

When I started to use fero rods I thought that I would be able to light pretty much anything, quickly. I found initially to my surprise that it wasn't always quite so simple. Then once I was proficient with a rod and my prepared carry along material fire starting, I moved on to experimenting with natural indigenous materials. Some materials turned out to be very reliable to set alight, with practice, but some materials like leaves were surprisingly terrible. Another observation was that dry fuzzy whatever was almost a universal ignition enhancer. I learned to seek out items like wasp nests in bushes, dried fuzzy plant heads, whatever. The final faze of my experimenting involved weather. I challenged myself to start fires in the winter cold, sometimes I couldn't do it with a rod and natural materials, so I used my back up materials. I practiced on dreary miserable landscape soaked days after prolonged rain etc. I came to know my limits, and what works well in certain places, in certain weather. Right now I know that I can quickly light up a big wad of dried wild grass in the winter cold. But I have also learned that there is a grey line were the cold is so extreme that other ignition means are preferred for time efficiency. It is all a lark on the edge of town with the vehicle a 10 minute walk away. But I have been frightened a couple of times through casual disregard?, arrogance?, and found myself in less than ideal situations with semi cooperating hands. So the more remote a site, the more extreme the weather, the more I prepare and bring along as options. And my typical carry along includes a rod (on a key chain) and I have lighters everywhere. My main points are that there was a learning curve for the rods, and that I pack lighters all the time, in multiples. I went through the waxed or Vaseline cotton balls etc. many years ago. Hell I have a bunch of match safes full off mixed shaved fatwood and magnesium shavings etc. in bags, in the vehicle. I always have a handful of fatwood sticks in the vehicle, that I keep replenished, as the wife and I use them up for lake side fire starting...............practice makes better...... I couldn't give a flying frig if someone brings a couple of road flares. Just make sure that you get back home to your family.

 

[gadgetgeek]

Or in my case, strike anywhere matches cannot be bought and storm-proofs are rather challenging although possible (and expensive) to aquire, so its a bic or sparks (gets hot enough here to dry out a zippo too quick for it to be practical). For my current "classes" of 7-13 year olds, I have a surplus decontamination kit box stuffed with vasoline cotton-balls, rather batch them up in bulk. gets the job done, and shows them something cool.

 

[upnorth]

Or in my case, strike anywhere matches cannot be bought and storm-proofs are rather challenging although possible (and expensive) to aquire, so its a bic or sparks (gets hot enough here to dry out a zippo too quick for it to be practical). For my current "classes" of 7-13 year olds, I have a surplus decontamination kit box stuffed with vasoline cotton-balls, rather batch them up in bulk. gets the job done, and shows them something cool.

Understood buddy, many approaches.:thumbup:

 

[Mannlicher]

we can put this old thread back in the time capsule, and flog it to death in another 5 years.

 

[leghog]

we can put this old thread back in the time capsule, and flog it to death in another 5 years.

calendar marked

 

[Trango 226]

I believe I understand what the OP meant when he posted this thread years ago. I happen to bump into this thread and over the past days I slowly read through it.

Firesteels and survival as a whole are often romanticized. Likely the most by people who know the least. I can attest to that just watching my immediate circle of friends and acquaintances. Add to that that nowadays anyone can become an expert by posting something on YouTube and you end up with a false sense of security.

I've been enjoying the outdoors in all its aspects for all my life. Be it hiking, backpacking, climbing, mountaineering, canoeing, expeditions or simply having fun in the forest. With that I fallen a couple of times in a river, had (too) many close calls (objective hazards in the mountains take on a large share). Actually I fell into a raging river during wintertime, snowcovered banks et al. When we finally got out, I didn't even consider building a fire. I stripped out of my clothes, wrung em out, put them back on and started walking. Granted I was lucky enough to wear a pile shirt. No drama there. I was well fed and able to walk all day. Don't stop and you'll stay warm enough.

Got back from the Scandinavian arctic. Building fire was essential every single moment of the day. In a small group it still takes a couple of hours just to get through your daily tasks of melting snow, finding deadwood, sawing it to pieces, processing it further. Then repeat the same process in the evening. Add to that the short daylight and you spend the bulk of your time caring for the fire.

One day everyone was wet. Temperatures not cold enough as they should have been, hence dangerous. We build shelter and the evening fire. Dragged in a bunch of trees, chopped them up. Then came the intense effort of bringing a fire to life in suboptimal conditions. It involved permanent attention by multiple people, not the least one guy waving vigorously his sit mat non stop. Nobody cared for food, all we cared about was drying out the clothes we had on us, since we were out there for a few more days. We had sleeping bags, but we wanted to have functional clothes the next morning. It took over three miserable hours to get the clothing in a more or less ok state. With vapor coming of the clothing from the get go... and hours later still vapor coming off... you couldn't help but wondering dang how much more water is in there?!

So back to the OP. The example he provided. Building that fire, if you get that far, is not going to solve your problems immediately. When hypothermia strikes, or is about to strike, walk it off. Or dive into your sleeping bag... or two.

We carried a bunch of individual bics and firesteels and solid fuel tablets of all sorts. Then a fancy turbo jet lighter for the group. More importantly we had an omnifuel stove with us for those moments a wood fire won't work. We used it once, although out of convenience. No gas canisters since too cold but we do use those outside of the winter seasons.

I suppose if I was living of the land for a long time I would prefer a firesteel, because of its lifespan. But in a here and now survival situation I rather not use a firesteel. Then again, I would rather have a sleeping bag or big bulky clothing when you get cold.