Thoughts about pre-orders

Nathan the Machinist

Nathan the Machinist

KnifeMaker / Machinist / Evil Genius
Moderator
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
Joined
Feb 13, 2007
Messages
15,672
I'm starting this thread because of some thread drift on an order thread. Thoughts about pre-orders can go here.

My thoughts, and I think we can all agree, is that pre-orders are probably a bad idea. 99% of makers shouldn't do them because knifemakers tend to be knuckleheads (no offend to other makers intended) and it's a risky practice. So I agree with the detractors.

So with that said I'm considering another one in a few weeks...
​
 
3e5c736c2c6bdd9e2a98ea9308f656e6.jpg



TommyGun56 said:
When's the Next Pre-order?
Click to expand...

I'm considering doing one in a few weeks for the Field Knife, which are in process now.

I'm thinking we'll do most of the entire run (500 knives) in some sort of a basic standard configuration and distribute it though a dealer or Amazon or similar and offer specialty variations as a pre-order to mix into the run. So standard might be tumbled with natural micarta scales. But the pre-order, which would be processed here on the forum, would have options like a 90 degree spine or swedge or satin or wood etc. So, people wanting something special could order (and pay in advance and wait for the custom work) and everybody else can simply order what they want in a standard configuration from a distribution service with no drama. I haven't decided yet but I'm leaning towards doing it this way in order to better serve everyone.

​
 
I like them in this instance. It definitely allows people who might not be able to type a reply in .006 seconds at 3pm on a Friday a good shot at getting one. Also, most people/companies I would not trust to do a preorder anymore, but I like your hair so I'm fine with it for CPK.

Also which one is the field knife?
 
unwisefool said:
I like them in this instance. It definitely allows people who might not be able to type a reply in .006 seconds at 3pm on a Friday a good shot at getting one. Also, most people/companies I would not trust to do a preorder anymore, but I like your hair so I'm fine with it for CPK.

Also which one is the field knife?
Click to expand...
FK2/UFK
 
Nathan the Machinist said:
View attachment 1185769





I'm considering doing one in a few weeks for the Field Knife, which are in process now.

I'm thinking we'll do most of the entire run (500 knives) in some sort of a basic standard configuration and distribute it though a dealer or Amazon or similar and offer specialty variations as a pre-order to mix into the run. So standard might be tumbled with natural micarta scales. But the pre-order, which would be processed here on the forum, would have options like a 90 degree spine or swedge or satin or wood etc. So, people wanting something special could order (and pay in advance and wait for the custom work) and everybody else can simply order what they want in a standard configuration from a distribution service with no drama. I haven't decided yet but I'm leaning towards doing it this way in order to better serve everyone.

​
Click to expand...
It doesn’t matter how you do it, I’ll be buying one.
 
I don't often opt for any custom options ... and preorders have allowed me to buy most of the CPK knives I own thankfully ...

but I can see the merits in your reasoning ... and the option of wood scales might be a custom option I could possibly be interested in.

but I like to think I will have a decent chance at buying the CPK models that I would get use out of ... and I have to admit I have failed miserably in most Friday sales dispite having a very fast PC and broadband that gets good pings to the BF site ...

but for whatever reason come a frantic Friday sale I have very little luck getting in the spots that are open for the knives available.
 
duramax said:
Question about the standard knives. Would there be any options or choices ? Like ghost g10 orange and others, also would Ti hardware be available ? Or are those going to be custom order through direct pre order ?

Just some thoughts :)
Click to expand...

yeah you bring up a good point. I expect we will need to continue to offer some low-volume Friday sales where people can customize a standard configuration with things like special scales or screws etc. I just want to get the bulk of the distribution on a more accessible venue and also offer specialty things like a sharp 90 degree spine that people have been asking for that can really only be done on a pre-order because that has to be worked into the piece during machining before heat treat.
 
^ I would imagine that any add-on will have to be processed through CPK if stock exists and it lasts.

Nathan has said that the standard knife will be something like a tumbled stonewashed blade with natural micarta. Therefore any fancier handle scales and hardware must be ordered separately for those who opt to buy the basic UFK from whoever the may end up as the distributor. Otherwise, you will have to order directly from CPK and their preorder.

Note to Nathan: do not do Amazon yourself! Find a dealer who you can work with and let them do Amazon if they want to. Just my 2 Cs.
 
Casinostocks said:
^

Note to Nathan: do not do Amazon yourself! Find a dealer who you can work with and let them do Amazon if they want to. Just my 2 Cs.
Click to expand...

Why?

I have never sold through Amazon before but a friend of mine was telling me about it and it sounds like a pretty simple way to get some help distributing standard shelf stock items. We have never been able to maintain shelf stock before, but it looks like 2020 might be the year.
 
Nathan the Machinist said:
View attachment 1185769





I'm considering doing one in a few weeks for the Field Knife, which are in process now.

I'm thinking we'll do most of the entire run (500 knives) in some sort of a basic standard configuration and distribute it though a dealer or Amazon or similar and offer specialty variations as a pre-order to mix into the run. So standard might be tumbled with natural micarta scales. But the pre-order, which would be processed here on the forum, would have options like a 90 degree spine or swedge or satin or wood etc. So, people wanting something special could order (and pay in advance and wait for the custom work) and everybody else can simply order what they want in a standard configuration from a distribution service with no drama. I haven't decided yet but I'm leaning towards doing it this way in order to better serve everyone.

​
Click to expand...

well, since you asked...

historically, custom knife makers went through dealers because of their exposure. I don't think CPK needs the exposure, as much as CPK needs to control all aspects of the business. Exposure is easy to come by these days with equitable access through the internet. I also don't see the value in giving over 20-30% of the profit to a dealer, or to create competitors in selling a proprietary product.

I think preorders are a horrible idea. Period. They've worked out so far, but are a lot of extra work with a high risk potential.

CPK needs to develop its own webstore. Whatever it costs to do right will likely still be less than it would cost to give a dealer- who sells competitor's brands and who may offload product cheap due to certain circumstances- their cut, especially once the number of units increases. CPK has 100% control over every aspect of the business and therefore every possible opportunity to head off issues that could result from final sales.

keep everything in house. Webstores are easy to build and maintain. Everything is centralized, and provides the best opportunity to guarantee consistency of brand messaging and all those other things that keep customers engaged and educated on what CPK is all about, without exposing customers to other options and losing sales to them.

sell through Bladeforums and through your webstore and that's it. Maintaining mailing lists and taking special orders is cool but don't give away more than you have to.

did I mention that preorders are terrible? Because they are. CPK should not do them ever again.
:)$.02
 
as much as pre orders are horrible, 90 degrees spines are even worse. They're just awful. But there are some people who legitimately have a use for them and would like to be able to order their knife with a 90-degree spine. I'm happy to oblige on a specialty basis but it is not going to be a standard offering. Hence the need for pre-order.
 
mb> said:
Amazon is a nightmare with lack of control on counterfeits being swapped and returned. (Spyderco has dealt with lots of that.)

That might be looking down the road a bit, but...ugh.
Click to expand...

Our product and manufacturing process is so different from others that I think a counterfeiter would have a hard time trying to create a believable facsimile. Things like our 3D sculpted scales, machined engraved maker's mark, chamfers on the skeletonized holes under the scales. These are things that a counterfeiter would struggle with. Other real makers struggle with these details.
 
I think the best solution you have hit so far is the few "open all weekend" sales you have done. Maybe I'm missing something but those seem to strike the balance between a smaller number of knives on a Friday sale, and a long extended pre-order. It makes them available for guys who just cannot seem to strike on a smaller Friday sale. I presume it also takes care of the pre-order risks that are inherent.

If some of the customizations that would be offered on a pre-order can be also offered on a larger, "open all weekend" sale, then it seems a reasonable compromise for all.

When all is said and done I do hope you arrive at a solution that maintains your and Jo's sanity for the longest period of time (that is the priority!). After all your sanity ultimately serves your customers in the long run.

Fun Fact - the original language for the word "Priority" does not have a plural.
 
Nathan the Machinist said:
Why?

I have never sold through Amazon before but a friend of mine was telling me about it and it sounds like a pretty simple way to get some help distributing standard shelf stock items. We have never been able to maintain shelf stock before, but it looks like 2020 might be the year.
Click to expand...

Generally PITA and if you decide to offer through their Prime, then you most likely will have to send merchandise to them so that they can handle the Prime orders (fulfilled by Amazon).

If you do decide to go as third party seller, then you will have more control maybe at the expense of less sales. That said, you run a very clean business and have good vibes outside of the BFC. Skip the Prime BS, ship out from CPK and you ought to be fine.
 
From a buyers perspectice, pre-orders have worked smoothly so far without any fuss. Though I don't really know how it has been for you and Jo.

Without them, a lot of folk just cant compete with the extremely fast paced friday sales.
I have only scored once on a sale and I have tried many many times.
Other than that, it's been pre-orders, secondary market or relying on others to land me one.
Without pre-orders it's ambigious whether I can get a certain model. I think this is true for a lot of other people too.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top