Thoughts on a Suga variant

Scara said:
Well, I've come to my decision. Of all the different designs KP513 has so generously drawn up I have come to a decision.



The top of these two is my choice. It's replicates beautifully my original idea, while incorporating the—in my opinion—excellent suggestions from cul4u01 of adding jimping and some form of a guard.

So now the next thing to do is figure out how to get it made. I don't suppose anyone knows how to go about doing that? I know I'll have to talk to Auntie, but other than that I have little to no idea.
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If you are indeed set on the final design, I can make a detailed drawing at 1:1 scale. I did increase the handle length when I increased it's curve while keeping straight line distance along the knife's spine the same. The blade is 5 inches in a straight line parallel to the spine. I can send a scan of the final cleaned up drawing (not a camera pic, don't want dimensions off) to you, Auntie, or Bawanna as the case may be. The only details I don't believe I have are: 1) handle thickness along the spine (that is to say, into the page) 2) Sharpened swedge length, though I assume it just to be the entire drop of the swedge which can be obtained.
 
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Bawanna don't got no dog in this race. I'll of course help anyone I can but I'm just Aunties friend and I like to think protector as if she really needs one. I got no say in placing orders or design or nothing, maybe Karda does but I think even he refers everything through Auntie.
 
Bawanna said:
Bawanna don't got no dog in this race. I'll of course help anyone I can but I'm just Aunties friend and I like to think protector as if she really needs one. I got no say in placing orders or design or nothing, maybe Karda does but I think even he refers everything through Auntie.
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Nothing like that, we were thinking of you as the woods master around these here parts, and maybe you can help make/produce a wood model of the proposed suga varient for the kamis to work off of as a reference.
 
Well I'm game to give it a shot. Be a new thing for me but count me in when /if the time comes.
 
KP513 said:
If you are indeed set on the final design, I can make a detailed drawing at 1:1 scale. I did increase the handle length when I increased it's curve while keeping straight line distance along the knife's spine the same. The blade is 5 inches in a straight line parallel to the spine. I can send a scan of the final cleaned up drawing (not a camera pic, don't want dimensions off) to you, Auntie, or Bawanna as the case may be. The only details I don't believe I have are: 1) handle thickness along the spine (that is to say, into the page) 2) Sharpened swedge length, though I assume it just to be the entire drop of the swedge which can be obtained.
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All of that sounds perfect, including the handle length. That was actually what I was hoping for.

So I would like the 1:1 scale drawing, at the very least for my records. I'm not sure about handle thickness, I don't know what would be most comfortable yet not print. I do want the whole drop of the swedge sharpened.
 
Let's try, have the drawing scale done, send to Bawanna and let him try and make a wood model for the kamis, and then ask auntie to have kamis make a prototype. If the consensus approve on a final model, then a limited run of the blades should be made, with the forumites who had a hand in its creation (those in this thread, prior to this post) receiving a discounted first run marked original of the blade.
 
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That seems like a reasonable route, though I wouldn't have any problem if this became a regular model. Heck, I'd actually think it's pretty cool if I created a new model with the help of some others.
 
It doesn't need to be a regular offering, but a BF periodic offering, like the IBBB, Trisul, Suga, and the other models not on the website. That will make them all the more special and collectible.
 
Scara said:
All of that sounds perfect, including the handle length. That was actually what I was hoping for.

So I would like the 1:1 scale drawing, at the very least for my records. I'm not sure about handle thickness, I don't know what would be most comfortable yet not print. I do want the whole drop of the swedge sharpened.
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Alright, I'll see if I can take care of that this weekend.
 
Scara:

One point that no has addressed is the spacing of the finger grooves. Hands and fingers vary in size and thickness, and finger grooves that fit one person well might be uncomfortable for the next person.

If you have a wood model made for your special order, make sure to try it on your own hand first. Also, be aware that if the kamis make several of them, the finger grooves ought to fit an "average hand" (whatever that might be).

I have two Padam Sugas, one with the finger grooves, and one with just one groove for the forward finger:

View attachment 474678

View attachment 474679

I like both of them, but the finger grooves on the first knife do not line up quite right for my fingers (I have an average sized hand). Therefore the antler version with one finger groove is more comfortable in my hand.

Others might not have this issue, but it is something to consider whenever a design includes finger grooves.

-- Dave
 
Good point Dave. If Bawanna is able to produce the wood model, he can fit it to his hand (which I believe ought to be sufficient), with a little leeway for bigger or smaller hands. We can then send it to each other, and see if it's comfortable for most individuals. Because the finger grooves will be on the inside curve of the handle, I am sure it will probably be less comfortable for those with bigger hands. Another option will be to have two models made, one with finger grooves, and one with a single index finger groove right behind the guard.
 
davidf99 said:
Scara:

One point that no has addressed is the spacing of the finger grooves. Hands and fingers vary in size and thickness, and finger grooves that fit one person well might be uncomfortable for the next person.

If you have a wood model made for your special order, make sure to try it on your own hand first. Also, be aware that if the kamis make several of them, the finger grooves ought to fit an "average hand" (whatever that might be).

I have two Padam Sugas, one with the finger grooves, and one with just one groove for the forward finger:

View attachment 474678

View attachment 474679

I like both of them, but the finger grooves on the first knife do not line up quite right for my fingers (I have an average sized hand). Therefore the antler version with one finger groove is more comfortable in my hand.

Others might not have this issue, but it is something to consider whenever a design includes finger grooves.

-- Dave
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That is an excellent point. As I'm drafting this up, I'm realizing that the handle will be quite small, smaller than on my Rat-1, so it's even more likely that finger grooves could cause an issue. I could hold off on finishing the 1:1 until we decide on a solution to this (Only and index groove, longer handle, shallow grooves, some combination thereof, etc). At any rate, I think the maximum number of reasonable finger grooves on this is 3.
 
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KP513 said:
That is an excellent point. As I'm drafting this up, I'm realizing that the handle will be quite small, smaller than on my Rat-1, so it's even more likely that finger grooves could cause an issue. I could hold off on finishing the 1:1 until we decide on a solution to this (Only and index groove, longer handle, shallow grooves, some combination thereof, etc). At any rate, I think the maximum number of reasonable finger grooves on this is 3.
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Davidf99 brings up an excellent point. As such, one more change is in order. Let's go with a single groove model. This will let it fit the maximum number of people without issue. I believe I would prefer one like Davidf99 has, where it's not a swell followed by a depression, but where it grooves in.

Sigh, and I thought I'd actually arrived at the final design. Well, better to fix it now that the issue has been raised than to continue with something less desirable out of stubborn pride.

edit: cul4u01, what do you mean by "BF special"? Best Friend special?

second edit: Never mind. BladeForum special.
 
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Scara said:
Davidf99 brings up an excellent point. As such, one more change is in order. Let's go with a single groove model. This will let it fit the maximum number of people without issue. I believe I would prefer one like Davidf99 has, where it's not a swell followed by a depression, but where it grooves in.

Sigh, and I thought I'd actually arrived at the final design. Well, better to fix it now that the issue has been raised than to continue with something less desirable out of stubborn pride.

edit: cul4u01, what do you mean by "BF special"? Best Friend special?

second edit: Never mind. BladeForum special.
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Here's the draft with that handle, I'll edit on this draft if any handle changes need to be made. I increased the straight line distance of the handle to 3.5 " which makes the length along the curve 3.75"; however, in terms of hand space (so not including the finger guard), it's more like 3 5/8". I'm thinking that increasing the straight line to 4" would produce an adequately comfortable grip for most hands, but let me know what you think.

 
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Well, my Kershaw-Emerson has about a four inch handle and it's about perfect but anything less wouldn't be so good. So let's go with the increased length. Nine inches straight line is not all that long for a knife meant for IWB carry.
 
Scara said:
Well, my Kershaw-Emerson has about a four inch handle and it's about perfect but anything less wouldn't be so good. So let's go with the increased length. Nine inches straight line is not all that long for a knife meant for IWB carry.
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Here we are. Along the curve, purchase for hand is about 4 1/8", 4 3/8" including guard.

 
That looks good. I'll admit I've gotten used to a certain proportion, so it looks a little odd at the moment, but that'll change. I hope this doesn't seem like a nitpick, but could you get the blade shape closer to the original Suga's, just in the smaller size?
 
Scara said:
That looks good. I'll admit I've gotten used to a certain proportion, so it looks a little odd at the moment, but that'll change. I hope this doesn't seem like a nitpick, but could you get the blade shape closer to the original Suga's, just in the smaller size?
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Before I do, would you mean to increase the proportions of the swell relative to the rest of the blade? (Decrease the length of straight spine, bring curve of blade closer to the cho). And with that, do you want the swell to be larger as well?
 
Uh, well the swedge on the Suga pictures I've seen curves in instead of out for one. Other than that I'm not sure. Sorry I'm not more helpful on this one.
 
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