Tidings and the return of Schatt and Morgan?

Camillus said:
I sincerely hope that we can stop talking about quality control as if it is the only aspect of a knife that matters, and give this guy a chance
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Maybe some of us mean something different than you do when we say 'quality control'? Otherwise I'm not sure what you mean by this.
 
Matt_WY said:
I Looked and didn’t see it before I posted. Unfortunately no way to delete a thread.
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You can lock it, like said, or you can click on the Blue Report at the bottom of any post and ask a moderator for help to either close or merge...in this case close would probably be the better option.
 
I am not a knifemaker, and don't know much about the machining aspect of it, but having bought a several (what turned out to be) shoddily made Queen (specifically S&M) knives in the past with poor fitment, uneven grinds, etc. should I be concerned that they're going to try to make knives using this old machinery? I mean...didn't seem like it was doing great for the guys working at Queen near the end, and when I read "old machines", my mind immediately started bringing up images of poor scale fitment, EXTREMELY poor shield fitment, and those aforementioned woefully uneven blade grinds. Terms "GEC-level quality" and "old machines" don't really go together, in my mind.
 
Quiet said:
I am not a knifemaker, and don't know much about the machining aspect of it, but having bought a several (what turned out to be) shoddily made Queen (specifically S&M) knives in the past with poor fitment, uneven grinds, etc. should I be concerned that they're going to try to make knives using this old machinery? I mean...didn't seem like it was doing great for the guys working at Queen near the end, and when I read "old machines", my mind immediately started bringing up images of poor scale fitment, EXTREMELY poor shield fitment, and those aforementioned woefully uneven blade grinds. Terms "GEC-level quality" and "old machines" don't really go together, in my mind.
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Probably not the "machines" fault, dies get worn, grinds could be operator error for a number of reasons. The tooling that those machines ran could have been rode hard and worn out, new tooling would rectify that. I've read that Queen lost a lot of talent when the current owner of GEC left to form GEC... hopefully the new owners has a pool of talented machinists and cutlers to build these S&M's, that would be a good thing for everyone, competition can be a good driving force.
 
These are turbulent times to be starting such an endeavor, with the economy taking the big hit from covid. I most sincerely hope them the best and that they do the name justice. It sure seems that Mr. Cooper has his heart in the right place and wishes to carry on the with S&M knives in a good way. Maybe just maybe we are on the cusp of a new era in American made traditional knives, Case is still chugging away ,GEC is as well. Now if Bear&Sons would just get on point with their QC and Utica would produce more traditionals at good quality things could get interesting. This is a step in a good direction imho.
 
Seems that this news of the Schatt & Morgan comeback is intertwined with the Queen Pilot Test Run Trapper from a few months ago. Here's a write up from the thread on those knives.

"Whether future products will be reminiscent of the older Queen knives is an unknown at this time.
Some folks on forums wrote that Gilbert Cooper, who had bought much of the Queen equipment, tooling and trademarks at auction, sold the Queen trademarks to an officer of SMKW. It was further stated that Bear & Son made these knives. We have it on good authority that this is true. A SMKW representative told one of our team the pilot run consisted of 150 knives. We think Mr. Cooper will announce his own plans at a time which suits him.
The knife itself measures 3 1/2” in closed length. It has both a clip and long spey blade, said to be made of 440 stainless steel. Both blades have a satin (brushed) finish and the clip blade is marked Queen on the tang and Pilot Test Run on the blade itself. It appears the markings were laser engraved. In fact, to this reviewers eye, the blades seem to be laser cut. The cutting edges are clean and very sharp. SMKW states the liners are also stainless steel while the bolsters and pins are of nickel silver. As mentioned, the handles are black composite with a simple matte appearance.
This little knife is well made and good looking. Is it worth $39.99? Roll up all the features outlined here and throw in made in the USA and we have to say it certainly is. Especially so since it’s considered a pilot run, which appears to have already sold out. It does not have the signature bone, stag or pearl handles we know from the Queen of old. Nor does it have brass liners, hand hammered brass pins or a hard stamped tang mark. It’s a modern version of a traditional knife pattern and seems to have been made with some advanced processes which Queen Cutlery Company did not have. It will be interesting to see what comes next."

The Queen Pilot Test Run Trapper.

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abcdef said:
Time will tell. Will the queen rise up and take a run at king GEC?
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Since Queen and Queen City are owned by SMKW, the four Queen City brand offerings being made offshore, with the single Queen offering (a red bone trapper) made by someone somewhere in USA, at or slightly below the Case price point, my guess is: "doubtful".

Let GEC have the limited "collector" market. Make product for the "common worker". Forget limited runs that don't make enough to meet demand.

Much more potential at the Case price point, especially if they don't put popular common patterns like the Barlow "in the vault" or whatever, and only make a small run every 5 or 10 years, while their competitors keep the pattern in production.
(Hey, Zippo/Case! That forces those who would buy yours to buy from someone else! Why you want to hand your customers over to the competition like that?)
A core group of patterns, such as the Peanut, Barlow (both single blade and two blade), medium (3 5/8 inch) and large (3 7/8 ~ 4 inch) single and double blade jack knife, medium and large stockman, and a full size 1 and 2 blade trapper, for example) readily available.
Innovate with "modern" steels if you want, but keep a line with basic steels for those who don't know (or care) what the differences are, and/or are unwilling to pay the premium for the "modern" steel ... and no ugly garish covers ... please ... no ugly garish covers ...
 
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Rusty1 said:
How come there are some S&M's being made by SMKW.
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I know SMKW is making Queen knives...
But I thought the "Queen" brand and the "Schatt and Morgan" brand went different directions (different owners/producers).
I further thought that some old Queen cutlers were working on the new Schatt and Morgan brand knives.
While the Queen brand knives were being made by Bear and Sons and some overseas shops.
 
Mr. Cooper was the main buyer at the bankruptcy auction. he bought most of the machinery and tooling. He also bought the 3 trademarks in a separate auction (Queen, Queen City, and Schatt & Morgan). He was somehow affiliated with Bluegrass Cutlery, which also owns the Winchester name. In talking with Mr. Cooper and his son, their goal was to get the S&M brand back up and running, after they moved everything to their new factory in southern Ohio. In doing so, they ended up needed additional funds, and so they sold the Queen and Queen City names to SMKW so that they could get everything set up and running. Their goal is to make S&M and Winchester knives, 100% made in the USA, using all the original old Queen machinery and tooling.
 
JohnDF said:
I know SMKW is making Queen knives...
But I thought the "Queen" brand and the "Schatt and Morgan" brand went different directions (different owners/producers).
I further thought that some old Queen cutlers were working on the new Schatt and Morgan brand knives.
While the Queen brand knives were being made by Bear and Sons and some overseas shops.
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Very strange having S&M knives being made by one person in Ohio and yet S&M knives by SMKW in china. The only Queen cutler I believe still making knives is for Tuna Valley Cutlery.
 
afishhunter said:
Let GEC have the limited "collector" market. Make product for the "common worker". Forget limited runs that don't make enough to meet demand.

Much more potential at the Case price point, especially if they don't put popular common patterns like the Barlow "in the vault" or whatever, and only make a small run every 5 or 10 years, while your competitors keep the pattern in production.
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I think Case has that market pretty wrapped up already. Or Victorinox.

I don't think there are hordes of consumers howling for lower quality slipjoints out there. And if they are, they'll either go with Case or any of the brands having their knives made overseas.

If a new company wants to be profitable selling old time knives like slipjoints and make them here in America, they need to appeal to those of us that just love well made knives and are willing to buy more even though we have too many already.
 
SMKW only had a very short amount of time to make a product using the Queen name, in order to renew the trademark. That's why the first Pilot Run was sent to Bear & Son, and has the laser etch tang. So far, all the additional orders have been made over seas. Not sure if there is ever a chance that Queen will be US made again. But S&M is entirely separate at this point, no longer affiliated with Queen.
 
"My name is Gilbert Cooper, most of you don't know me. I was the Guy at the Queen Knife Auction That bought those ' OLD' Machines... "

Holy random capitalization, Batman! Are we really going to buy knives from a guy who uses 'LOL' in his introduction to us? We should have a law against traditional knife makers writing like an eleven year old girl.
 
I'm certainly interested in the patterns that they may put out and the steels they can offer. So let's calmly wait & see what transpires.

As Chuck Berry said " If it's a slow song I'll omit it, but if it's a Rocker that'll get it, and if it's good she'll admit it. Come on Queenie let's get with it!"
 
Norcaldude said:
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If a new company wants to be profitable selling old time knives like slipjoints and make them here in America, they need to appeal to those of us that just love well made knives and are willing to buy more even though we have too many already.
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Like Queen and Canal Street Cutlery/Canal Street Co-Op?
My apologies, but it appears to me, that every small company producing a well made knife that goes toe to toe with GEC don't last too long. :(

Case competes with Böker, Bear and Sons, possibly the domestic Queen under SMKW, (I realize there are some who won't buy the offshore made Queen City line, no matter how good they are, at a Case price), Sarge USA made, Buck (30x made in Idaho, not the offshore 300 series), Grohmann, and a few other North American manufactured brands, (and possibly still some Sheffield, England, and outside Solgien, Germany, German brands, like Otter(?) along with a few Spanish and Italian brands?)
In short, Case is far from having the $50 to $80 (give or take) price point "locked up".
 
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