Tidings and the return of Schatt and Morgan?

I'm looking very forward to these new Schatt & Morgans, and hope that someday in the not too distant future, we'll see some new Railsplitters (with a sheepfoot blade:)).
 
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In my opinion, there is plenty of room in the GEC market space for an equal sized cutler to exist even thrive without hurting GEC one bit.
If the quality and patterns are up to the standards that GEC has set, there would be no problem selling knives. The present demand for GEC level knives is much greater than the current supply.
I would use the same formula as Bill Howard is using as well. Only 1095 steel on the old equipment. Small runs. Basic patterns to start.
There is actually a large hole in the SFO market as we speak.
 
Jiki said:
In my opinion, there is plenty of room in the GEC market space for an equal sized cutler to exist even thrive without hurting GEC one bit.
If the quality and patterns are up to the standards that GEC has set, there would be no problem selling knives. The present demand for GEC level knives is much greater than the current supply.
I would use the same formula as Bill Howard is using as well. Only 1095 steel on the old equipment. Small runs. Basic patterns to start.
There is actually a large hole in the SFO market as we speak.
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I agree wholeheartedly. Right now, GEC is in a somewhat unique position where, as you said, they make these small batches of knives that get snapped up instantly in seconds/minutes, and then we're stuck waiting until the next drop (unless you want to get taken advantage of on secondary). There's plenty of room for another company to be standing there with GEC-quality level product to sell for all of the folks who don't get a GEC knife from their run. And candidly speaking, competition usually makes things better, so there'd be that aspect as well.
 
Rookie82 said:
I'm a fan of the authentic 60+ year old Winterbottom Bone. I know we'll never see that again on a Queen knife out of China, but maybe it could be used every once in a while on the new S&M knives. It is one of my favorite handle materials.
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I'm also a fan of winterbottom bone. I have a couple of Queens with it that are very attractive IMHO.

I doubt we'll see any winterbottom, although Case occasionally does some with winterbottom jigging (and quite nicely too), so you never know.
 
I think the cornerstone of starting up a knife manufacturing facility with equipment purchased for scrap value, is people who understand the goal and have the creativity to make the equipment and tooling work....... Let's face it, you won't be calling a manufacturer to see how the machine is supposed to operate... And when a punch die becomes dull, will you rework it in-house or farm it out to a die shop?

The manufacturing company I retired from in 2011 was founded in 1915...... When I retired we still used some equipment that was purchased in 1915..... Some operators could make the machines perform wonderfully and produce spot on product.... Other operators would struggle remembering how to to turn the the machine on.....

The other aspect is benchwork where the knife is assembled, aligned, polished, etc..... This area is where the output is 99% operator skill using rudimentary tools and a buffing wheel..... This area can make or break all the prior operations......

I think the success of the S&M venture will lie on Mr. Cooper's ability to recruit machining, tooling and mechanical savvy people who will work for wages he will be able to offer.....
 
Jiki said:
In my opinion, there is plenty of room in the GEC market space for an equal sized cutler to exist even thrive without hurting GEC one bit.
If the quality and patterns are up to the standards that GEC has set, there would be no problem selling knives. The present demand for GEC level knives is much greater than the current supply.
I would use the same formula as Bill Howard is using as well. Only 1095 steel on the old equipment. Small runs. Basic patterns to start.
There is actually a large hole in the SFO market as we speak.
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I wouldn't mind seeing some good quality stainless like 154cm (or cpm) or ATS34. Something along those lines.
 
mbkr said:
I wouldn't mind seeing some good quality stainless like 154cm (or cpm) or ATS34. Something along those lines.
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I understand what you may like, however that is not following the formula that has proven successful.
 
One of the reasons given for GEC's rather limited stainless offerings is the expense and effort involved with tooling for it. Stainless is harder to work with and therefore causes a lot more wear on the machines as a result.

Now S&M/Queen was able to offer up different stainless steels so I do wonder if any of that tooling was bought with the equipment and if there might be plans to incorporate it in this sort of rebirth.

Personally, I am of the mind that the new S&M should keep things simple - offer up a tried and true steel in a small selection of desirable patterns. Hopefully, this will allow them to get their feet under them proper and will give the market something to chew on a little before they opt for more extravagant offerings and configurations.
 
Jiki said:
I understand what you may like, however that is not following the formula that has proven successful.
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I seriously doubt that offering something other than 1095 is what caused the failure of Queen or Canal Street.

JohnDF said:
Also, apparently hard on old machinery.
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Pàdruig said:
One of the reasons given for GEC's rather limited stainless offerings is the expense and effort involved with tooling for it. Stainless is harder to work with and therefore causes a lot more wear on the machines as a result.

Now S&M/Queen was able to offer up different stainless steels so I do wonder if any of that tooling was bought with the equipment and if there might be plans to incorporate it in this sort of rebirth.

Personally, I am of the mind that the new S&M should keep things simple - offer up a tried and true steel in a small selection of desirable patterns. Hopefully, this will allow them to get their feet under them proper and will give the market something to chew on a little before they opt for more extravagant offerings and configurations.
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Good point about wear on the tooling.

I think 154cm and ATS34 have been around long enough to be considered tried and true. I know the Red Trout with 154 I've been carrying is a gem, and its the knife I was thinking of when I made my earlier post.

Hopefully we'll find out more in a few months. In any event it will be good to have another US manufacturer of pocket knives to go along with GEC, Case, Buck, and Bear.
 
mbkr said:
Good point about wear on the tooling.

I think 154cm and ATS34 have been around long enough to be considered tried and true. I know the Red Trout with 154 I've been carrying is a gem, and its the knife I was thinking of when I made my earlier post.

Hopefully we'll find out more in a few months. In any event it will be good to have another US manufacturer of pocket knives to go along with GEC, Case, Buck, and Bear.
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Honestly, if the new S&M can produce knives in these steels that hold up to the scrutiny of discriminating collectors, this would fill a niche that GEC has not as of yet, nor do they plan to as far as I know.

I am really hoping for the greatest of success.
 
mbkr said:
I seriously doubt that offering something other than 1095 is what caused the failure of Queen or Canal Street.
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I did not say that it did. I simply said there is a successful formula out there and I would attempt to follow it for success.

Are there other ways and opportunities out there to be successful? Yes, have they proven to be successful yet? No, I don’t know if it was due to other factors or not, it probably was other factors.
 
This thread has been an interesting read.

Best of luck to Mr. Cooper and Co.

And from a purely personal standpoint - bring on the spear and clip Barlows. :)
 
Jiki said:
Let's not forget that S&M went out of business, that's why we are having this conversation.

I bet half y'all were mad the first time they did that because it wasn't "traditional ".
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now Im not a huge steel snob, but sometimes its nice to have a knife in a steel other than 1095 especially for long term storage reasons.
 
mrknife said:
now Im not a huge steel snob, but sometimes its nice to have a knife in a steel other than 1095 especially for long term storage reasons.
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I'm not against any of those steels, I'm just saying how I would restart a cutlery company with WW2 equipment.
 
HEMI 49 said:
I think the success of the S&M venture will lie on Mr. Cooper's ability to recruit machining, tooling and mechanical savvy people who will work for wages he will be able to offer.....
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From what i have read and seen posted on different forums, that was the problem with the demise of the Cutlery industry in the once great Sheffield. There was/ is a distinct lack of young people wanting to enter into the industry, and therefore the decline of the industry. I really hope that this is a very successful venture, i will be on board for a good well made, USA knife, so wishing all concerned the best of luck.
 
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