Time for my exit; Adios shop talk

Discussion in 'Shop Talk - BladeSmith Questions and Answers' started by J. Doyle, Jan 7, 2019.

  1. Ken H>

    Ken H>

    Dec 31, 2011
    While I can see some truth in your post, I do not think it's that bad. For the most part, this is a GREAT forum and Stacy keeps it in line nicely (and usually tags any bad info that gets posted). I can see the problem of spending too much time on forum and not making knives (that's me:) but there is so much knowledge that has been shared it's just amazing. There are honest difference of opinion between the experts even, but that's to be expected.

    Just for the record, I do agree with you on Ayn Rand - she was a total hypocrite in many aspects, even to the point of signing up for SS in her later life.

    Ken H>
    Fred.Rowe and E.Carlson like this.
  2. Horsewright

    Horsewright KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Oct 4, 2011
    Sorry to see you go John. Your work speaks for itself and consequently so did your advice given here.
  3. AVigil

    AVigil Adam Vigil knifemaker working the grind Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Platinum Member

    Feb 17, 2009

    That top sword he did not make that was made by Chris Moss.

    The folder is from a kit he just replaced the blade and scale, bolster materials.

    The others are tiny miniature knives.

    Of course he can make knives it would be nice to see some picts of all the techniques he talks about
  4. Drew Riley

    Drew Riley AR Custom Knives Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Oct 17, 2007
    I can understand where you’re coming from John, but I hope you’ll reconsider.

    Yes, on one hand, there’s a bit of BS to wade through, misinformation, etc, but when the experienced makers start leaving, it only stands to get worse.

    Why can’t we just continue to call the bad information for what it is? Yes, it’s more work and drama to keep in check, but I think having this forum as a resource of good info and experience is worth the extra hassle.

    And yes, there are a lot of “I want the best grinder for the least money, please decide for me” threads. Maybe it’s time for a new Sticky?
  5. Larrin

    Larrin Gold Member Gold Member

    Jan 17, 2004
    I just bought a Harbor Freight grinder. Am I part of the problem?
  6. AVigil

    AVigil Adam Vigil knifemaker working the grind Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Platinum Member

    Feb 17, 2009
    Only if you claim it is as good as a TW90 :D
  7. Larrin

    Larrin Gold Member Gold Member

    Jan 17, 2004
    It's better, this is way smaller. :)
    Nick Dunham and milkbaby like this.
  8. Tablesaw


    Jan 8, 2018
    I am very sorry that you have decided to leave the forum. I respect your decision.
    As a relatively new maker I have found this forum to provide some wonderful advice. In fact, I spent many hours reading forums and using the search feature. I have taken a two excellent introductory classes, however there is nothing like getting a broad perspective from experts throughout the world. I particularly enjoy reading from advice from makers like you. The pictures of work and others inspire me and I greatly appreciate the nuggets of information that I devour. I hope you will come back, but in any case, thank your for what you have provided me. Perhaps as new makers we don't say thank you enough.
    Best wishes. Jim
    Natlek likes this.
  9. Kevin McGovern

    Kevin McGovern

    Jul 31, 2015
    If John left because of Stacy, I'm sure he's more than capable of telling him that, or pointing it out in this thread. No need to derail this thread with personal attacks. If you have a problem with the mod, wouldn't the best way to handle it be with the BF admin? As far as what WAS identified in the original post, Stacy does a LOT of educating the new makers who have questionable ideas on process, so others don't have to. He takes the time to send them free material and encourage the ones who show initiative. Are we going to disagree on things? ABSOLUTELY, it's one of the things that increases our knowledge. So while you may disagree with Stacy, or for whatever reason have it in for him, I haven't seen him post anything that is overtly incorrect. The BEST advice always? Who among us can say we do that? Sorry for the rant. Oh, and Edge packing is totally legit.
    Kentucky likes this.
  10. Kevin McGovern

    Kevin McGovern

    Jul 31, 2015
    does the TW-90 come with a 90 day warranty? I DON'T THINK SO!!!
    milkbaby likes this.
  11. bmilleker

    bmilleker Gold Member Gold Member

    Nov 26, 2012
    I don't read information on forums as gospel, unless I know the individual is trustworthy and knows what they are talking about. Anyone who doesn't have their bullshit meter finely tuned is going to learn the hard way. If you run across advice from people you don't know, do more digging and see if others are saying the same thing.

    I wouldn't be making knives without forums like this. Good and bad. It's all worth it.
    Natlek, ten-six, Tim Pollack and 2 others like this.
  12. milkbaby


    Aug 1, 2016
    This is still the first forum that I'll turn to for knifemaking advice, but I'm very sad when John or any of the other established makers leave for whatever reasons.

    I really appreciate the knowledge and experience here. Hopefully some of y'all will stick around because the older I get, the more I realize how much more there is to learn!
  13. Fred.Rowe

    Fred.Rowe Dealer / Materials Provider Dealer / Materials Provider

    May 2, 2004
    There is always an ebb and flow of rational information, no matter what forum you visit. It's not static. If those who have taken the time and requisite energy, to learn this craft, take that knowledge and go elsewhere, what is being given in return for all that has been learned? I am still in debt to those who came before me and even though I cannot pay those individuals back, for in many cases they have passed; I can pay forward, which is how I approach this.
    I've withdrawn a little because of a time worn body that does not function as it did only a few years back. But then yesterday a younger man called, who had just moved close to us, coming from California; he had questions about knife making and grinding. I had the information he sought inside my head with no need to take a book off the shelf. He turned out to be a wonderful young man about 40 years old. He stayed 3 hours and when he left my shop, he was focused and determined for what I had shared with him made it clear, he could reach his goal. By this time I'd lost my voice and my knees were screaming. It was worth it knowing my visitor was hopeful, determined that he would succeed.
    My post is not directed toward you John, I know you will find a way to share your knowledge, even if not here.

    I recall my early days here back in 2004, when edge packing and anvil orientation where real topics of discussion. We have passed those days by and now you are more likely to see people discussing soak times and isothermal transformation diagrams.

    Happy grinding and have a safe new year, Fred
    Natlek, milkbaby, Upended and 3 others like this.
  14. Tim Pollack

    Tim Pollack KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Aug 24, 2012
    I hate to see mr. Doyle leave or any experienced maker. Everyone starts somewhere and I learned a lot from the guys in this forum. I'm usually a lurker but in my excitement sometimes give advice. Hopefully not bad advice. I have the mindset if i can do it, you can too and just try and help. I hope anyone thinking of leaving will reconsider. Thank you to all the guys that didn’t even know you were helping
    Here's a pic of my latest work bird & trout
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2019
  15. E.Carlson

    E.Carlson KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Mar 28, 2016
    Thank you sir, for all that you have shared with us.
    Natlek likes this.
  16. Natlek


    Jun 9, 2015
    Let facing some facts , before somebody starts crying :) J. Doyle has started about 550 threads .I don t make precisely count for all that threads but seems that about 70% are threads where he show his work and rest is in sale forum , where he sell knives , wood ...etc .Now, any answer he wrote to answer some question from beginner or from other knife maker I read very carefully because I KNOW that it is good advice . Pictures of his work talks only about his personal skills ....skills are important .You can write book about free hand grinding and it will not help me ...I can t do that !! To give good advice to question is something else....... And I don t think that all this is only from experience ... the knowledge of other things are very helpful in this knife related things . My point is , no one is paying membership here to answer MY stupid question ! All of you a here to advertising yourself to knife community.Even when you answer MY stupid question you are advertising your self . When you answering questions from beginners you show what you know to everyone who read your post . ....and you gain +credibility . It is not carved in stone that anybody must answer any question .But IF you are 100% sure that some post is incorrect and can lead to bad result , why to hesitate to correct it ??? I have no idea what can or can not make @stacy ,but most advice he gave to other member are right on the money . There was thing that maybe I never done , but that does not mean that I can t give good advice about that ...You get the point , right ?
    PS . Go back and read his post when he join this community...you will find some basic question ..which means that he learned something from OTHER members ....
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2019
  17. Kevin McGovern

    Kevin McGovern

    Jul 31, 2015
    I'm a paying member and I don't sell knives on here. I sold some blocks one time. I am a paying member because I want to support the site that I got so much out of. BTW the irony is palpable...
  18. Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith

    Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith ilmarinen - MODERATOR Moderator Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Aug 20, 2004
    Just some clarifications, and then I am done with this:

    The first photo is the sword that was a gift to me from Chris Moss for the help I gave him in learning to make knives and for helping him make Gracie's engagement ring.

    The folder uses only the liners from a kit knife I got in a batch of knife making stuff I bought from the estate of fellow who passed away. ... I handmade the rest. It has a forged damascus blade (forged from a short piece of Elfin twist by Chris Marks) , mosaic bolsers (billet from Chris, too), MOP scales, gold cap screws ... all made by me. The only thing I didn't make was the liners (which I modified a bit). It won an award.

    The mini katana is 3" long and has every separate part a full size 36" katana has. Blade is forged W2. The sheath has gold fittings. It is owned by a major collector who was president of The SVKC. He owns dozens of my knives. It won an award.

    The last knife is not a mini ... it is 18" long. It was bought by Col. Carl Molton, a well known auctioneer who could buy any knife he wanted (and did). He had me add another silver inlay of a gavel engraved with his name. I was told he occasionally wore it when doing an auction. Don't know who bought it after he died.

    You can also see many of my knives in the older Knives Annual books. I had two or three in every year's issue for a while, but stopped sending in photos.

    You can also ask folks who have been to my shop/house, and people who have been to shows where I display. I have won best custom collection or best custom display several times. All the knives on my table are mine, with the exception of a few Frazier display blades.

    I win one to three of the awards every year at the SVKC show. I have boxes of them. I don't stick them out at shows because I don't care about showing off. When I sell a knife/sword that wins an award, I give the award to the new owner.

    Now, let's stop trying to make this thread about me not making knives. If you are saying John left because of me, I am very sorry, but don't know why he would say that.
    Thom Moss, Drew Riley and Natlek like this.
  19. Kevin McGovern

    Kevin McGovern

    Jul 31, 2015
    A. He didn't say that. He in fact said why he left. Any inference anyone else has made is not germane.
    B. I have been to Stacy's house and shop. There are tons of swords, knives and other items hand made by him. His smithy is impressive and the only dust on his equipment is grinding dust.
    C. He showed me some of his finished work and many forged blades. As well as the Katana in the first pick. In fact he spent a ton of time explaining what the maker had done. How much that maker had advanced in a short amount of time and how impressive the piece was.

    He wasn't bragging on his work, and he didn't need too, as it spoke for itself. However, if you want to know what kind of guy he is, he's the kind that takes more time showing me his student's work, because instead of pride in himself, he takes pride in the advancement of others. Like me, he gets a ton of enjoyment helping out others new to the craft. He likes to help people. I don't see a problem here other than what I, John Doyle and JT pointed out. And those are issues that are kind of inherent to the format.
  20. Larrin

    Larrin Gold Member Gold Member

    Jan 17, 2004
    This section of the forum is certainly better moderated than the General section.
    Fred.Rowe, Natlek, Drew Riley and 3 others like this.

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