Too "Snooty" for an economy sodbuster?

knifeswapper

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At Blade2017 I was talking to a factory about a sure 'nuff economy sodbuster pattern. Something like a barely sub-4" beater, but with a steel that would be useful - say D2. I couldn't really get them interested, because they said the market had become too "particular" for a $30 sodbuster. Their concern was that if they tooled up to make an economy knife, the market would assume their build quality had become lackluster across their line.

So that got me thinking. Have we gotten so critical on social media that the factories don't even want to make a "beater" anymore? I somewhat see their point, but hope this market segment is not lost to only the chinese just because the knives may not be worthy of a pocket dump photo....

Could the market still tolerate a true work knife at a value price point?
 
Short answer: Yes - Companies and consumers have become to snooty.

Long Answer:

Mike, the market is already flooded with good beaters that no one wants, or usually, takes a pocket dump shot of.

In my opinion the idea of creating a $30 beater is to backwards thinking for most companies. Here's why:
  • What profit is in it?
  • How will it carry the Brand Name forward?
  • It is not in fashion or the cutting trend?
  • Is it marketable
  • If they turn the consumer to a true beater knife will they turn the perspective of that person and thus lose a loyalty of future purchases; meaning the costumer may lose a desire to purchase more for no reason since a beater is all anyone needs.
  • The idea of a $30 beater also does sound cheap. It would take word of mouth for others to figure out its performance qualities. And, when people are carrying Rocksteads and $1,000+ customs a $30 knife lacks the identity status some crave.

All this is only opinion though
 
Nice idea, but I think that the beater market is too cramped - you have folding and fixed blade options like Opinel, Hultafors, Svord, SOG, Mora, then you have the secondary market vintage Camillus and Schrade, then cheaper modern folding knives like a RAT1 or a Buck Vantage all competing in that space.
 
I'm afraid so. Oh sure there's a few folks out there that use their gear but generally most knives are destined for posting on social media first and working second.
Then there's this crowd and I swear there's more of them every day... If they don't get exactly what they want right now (and what they want changes daily), they start spouting off all sorts of ignorant nonsense. So rest assured, whatever you make it will be: too big, too small, not cheap enough, too cheaply made, not exactly like the prototype, why didn't they take my suggestions, stainless, carbon, too similar, too different... all at the same time. Then these folks will jump up and down screaming "what were you thinking!". I dunno why, I think it makes them feel good.
 
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Social media only reflects the experience of users with existing product. It does not generate the market, as it does not create product. It may influence some decisions, and may have fed the current split in the market between the high end (think GEC etc.) and the low end (think Rough Rider etc.). I do long for a user which is good combination of quality material and reasonable cost, which seems to be elusive in the current market.

Looking at the problem historically, not politically, the same problem that is there with an upgraded sodbuster exists with the Barlow pattern, which although originally a low cost good quality "beater" by design, is now (since the 1990's) treated as a premium pattern. Putting a higher end steel in a lower end knife at a low cost was the basis of marketing Russell's Barlow design, the first to use machine made parts rather than making all the parts by hand. Russell stopped making those in the 1930's because the material cost was too high (they could not compete when other factories turned to less expensive products using more modern methods).

At this time (since the beginning of the century), the market for value for money knives has already been given over to outsourced knives, which people are happy to buy. In response, the American knife companies are following the same path taken by the Sheffield makers a century ago, in dealing with the rise of less expensive imports from Germany and the USA, focusing on the high end and letting the lower price entry market go. They are following the money, like good business people. Worked out well for Sheffield, they still have Arthur Wright and Son making very fine traditional knives by traditional methods, as well as some great custom makers.

At the other end of the market, most production has been successfully outsourced to several companies that import large quantities of good value for money products. Would these make a low cost D2 knife? Perhaps if there was enough of a demand.

In the middle are Case, Queen, Bear and Son, Colonial, and perhaps Utica Kutmaster. It would be interesting to see a working person's D2 sodbuster or Barlow from any of these companies especially if they could tool up and produce locally. Would they be competitive with the lower cost Rough Rider end of the market, or with the higher end bespoke/boutique type knives? Sometimes the middle ground is the hardest to hold.
 
I've got a Queen Country Cousin in D2 that I paid roughly $30 for. I am very satisfied with the quality. I'm dont think anyone should expect perfection at that price point and are doing a disservice to the industry when they nitpick "work series knives" on social media.
 
If only they were $30 shipped. Fine knives indeed though!

Fair point! :D I'm not sure how much the shipping is, but the way the British Pound (£) is going, they are set to get even cheaper! :eek: :D :thumbsup:
 
Sounds like a prime candidate for a crowd source campaign. With factory approval of a specified minimum quantity, somebody could set up a goFundMe/crowd funding page and see just how tolerant the market is for a $30 d2 sodbuster. Id suspect that if a store like Ck, Ksf, Dlt etc branded it their own and stood behind the finished product like Smith & Son does with the Mudbug it would pre-sell real well.
 
I've got a Queen Country Cousin in D2 that I paid roughly $30 for. I am very satisfied with the quality. I'm dont think anyone should expect perfection at that price point and are doing a disservice to the industry when they nitpick "work series knives" on social media.
Amen. I am very pleased with my #69 Barlow as well.
 
Not to snooty, but I already have a beater Sodbuster.

Still cuts like a razor...
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but a few more sharpenings and it's gonna cut like a saw when I reach those pits! :D

Then I'll switch over to this...
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or this
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Sounds like a prime candidate for a crowd source campaign. With factory approval of a specified minimum quantity, somebody could set up a goFundMe/crowd funding page and see just how tolerant the market is for a $30 d2 sodbuster. Id suspect that if a store like Ck, Ksf, Dlt etc branded it their own and stood behind the finished product like Smith & Son does with the Mudbug it would pre-sell real well.
That sounds really neat.
 
I don't think of the market being to snooty overall. Sure there are some that could fall into that category but I tend to believe that any well made knife can develop a following, regardless of price. It just has to punch above its weight class in terms of quality in my book. I would not likely buy one just because of premium steel if the overall package suffers.

I think you are on the right track, Mike. A good quality sodbuster in D2 would sell very well IMO. I also think Case and GEC are missing a sure thing here by not offering upgraded steel and cover options to their line. If the plain Jane $30 model does well, I would almost guarantee that a "premium" model in D2/154 CM with some nice wood or bone would sell every bit as well.
 
...Their concern was that if they tooled up to make an economy knife, the market would assume their build quality had become lackluster across their line.

So that got me thinking. Have we gotten so critical on social media that the factories don't even want to make a "beater" anymore? I somewhat see their point, but hope this market segment is not lost to only the chinese just because the knives may not be worthy of a pocket dump photo....

Could the market still tolerate a true work knife at a value price point?

I'm in to a working knife at that price point. I wish GEC would put 440C on a bullnose. For the sake of agreement with everyone who loves 1095, I'll say 1095 is fine for a working knife, but better edge retention and corrosion resistance just make sense for a "work knife" of that size. There is nothing about 440C or D2 on a knife like that that doesn't make sense (even sharpenability, because there are plenty of sharpening tools that make easy work of both of those steels to appease all who would bemoan the "loss" of 1095's sharpenability; and aside, when it comes to reprofiling, GEC's 1095 isn't exactly a peach anyhow.)

But a bullnose from GEC, especially one with 440C steel, will never cost anywhere close to $30. It will be at least double, and probably more by about $10 or $15.

So absolutely! Give me a $30 D2 bladed sodbuster. Heck, give me a $40 one. Queen, do another run of country cousins. Or make it with 154CM or even O1 or A2. Whatever. Plenty of inexpensive steels out there that are easy to machine and outperform 1095 by leaps and bounds.

A sodbuster pattern with the traditional thick handle (which is part of it's appeal, in my opinion) is never going to be a gentleman's knife or a dressy knife to my purpose, becaused it's too chunky in some slacks. Case has some slimmer ones, and I really don't mind Case's TruSharp SBJs, but those run $20-$25. Another $10-$20 is well worth the performance increase from the better steel. So it doesn't need to be super fancy. A knife with solid fit and finish can be plain-jane and unrefined and still imbue the user with the experience of holding a high quality tool.

Now to the profitability - the argument for Case's cheaper steels is that those knives are meant to appeal to a mass market (read: not us on Bladeforums), and so why bother with a materials cost increase for a customer who just wants a knife to cut something on occasion? Well, how does this sound: "Here, we have a Sodbuster Jr. knife. You can have it in stainless or high carbon steel for $25. We have the same knife that will stay sharp for at least twice as long, though, and it costs $35, so you won't have to sharpen it nearly as often."
 
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I have recently discovered sodbuster type knives. I like the slightly under 4 inch closed versions and the larger versions. So a D2 version sounds wonderful.
 
I'm actually having this predicament right now - the only knife I currently have is a Victorinox Swiss Army Waiter. I sold everything else I had because my income has been fleeting over the summer, and most of the time, the Waiter does everything I need from an EDC knife. I just like to have more blade when I can. This thing costs $17, though, and so I have a hard time understanding how it can be finished as nicely as it is at that price point, and yet when I want something with just a step up in blade steel to the realm of the stuff we're discussing in this thread, I'm now looking at usually a minimum of 4x that much money, but often a lot more. If I want to go non-traditional I can have something like an Ontario folder with D2 steel for ~$30, but otherwise I'm kinda left hanging, even in the fixed blade realm.
 
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