Too "Snooty" for an economy sodbuster?

Knarfeng you are right about the parts being produced on automated machines but every knife is assembled by a person
and the final inspection & packaging also.
Considering the amount of knives they produce every year the quality & function is constant.
Too bad Victorinox doesn't make a Sodbuster:(
 
I admire the Swiss Army line for the consistency and dependability.
But there is nothing that replaces the pleasure of taking out a vintage Robeson or Schrade, or my beloved, weathered TC Barlow. These knives have soul!
Saks are faithful, but a bit of a snore by comparison!
I guess I am too Snooty to own/use an indistinguishable knife, no matter how wonderous the steel in the blade!
A knife doesn't have to be engraved. It doesn't need to have gold fittings. But it does have to hold an edge AND hold my fingerprints! It has to show the wear I put on it, and be made of pleasing, warm materials.
Don't put any modern adhesives in my knife! Keep it pure.
If I am going to destroy a knife it will be a cheap box cutter, or a proper scraper - or a pry bar!!
My knives are old friends, not disposable tools. There are tons of those tools at the hardware store, and they are cheap!!
Snoots of the world, UNITE!!!
 
Charlie I couldn't agree with you more, a lot of us own knives we feel attached to .Maybe it was your Grandfathers or your Dads
or was gifted to you.
In 1992 I was an usher at a friends wedding.The groom gifted each of us with a Buck110 with the leather belt sheath.
I have never carried or used it but it is in the safe with a few other queens. Every few months I take them out & check them
over, wipe them down & oil them. Even though I will never use the 110 I would never sell it or give it away because of how
I obtained it.
 
knarfeng said:
Another factor is the design. SAKs are specifically designed for ease of assembly.
♦ They make a limited number of frame sizes. That means the number of different spring sizes are going to be greatly reduced, so the spring strength is going to be more uniform.
♦ Limited number of sizes also means uniformity when it comes to covers. And the covers are all uniformly made of injection molded plastic that is ready to go as it comes out of the machine. They only have to make a few dies. Want a new color? Change the feed stock. Done. No worrying about fit and finish, or color oddities.
♦ The springs are hidden, so they don't have to worry about gaps. The gaps are there, but can't be seen. So no one complains and workers don't have to fuss about them. Not like a regular stockman or a trapper, where any unevenness of the springs is immediately visible.

Every fit and finish issue that is fixed by the design instead of by individual labor means a less expensive build process. So you get a $17 knife.

Don't get me wrong, it's a good knife, but it is designed to be less expensive to manufacture. Comparing an SAK price to a stockman price without looking at the difference in design is not fair.
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waynorth said:
I admire the Swiss Army line for the consistency and dependability.
But there is nothing that replaces the pleasure of taking out a vintage Robeson or Schrade, or my beloved, weathered TC Barlow. These knives have soul!
Saks are faithful, but a bit of a snore by comparison!
I guess I am too Snooty to own/use an indistinguishable knife, no matter how wonderous the steel in the blade!
A knife doesn't have to be engraved. It doesn't need to have gold fittings. But it does have to hold an edge AND hold my fingerprints! It has to show the wear I put on it, and be made of pleasing, warm materials.
Don't put any modern adhesives in my knife! Keep it pure.
If I am going to destroy a knife it will be a cheap box cutter, or a proper scraper - or a pry bar!!
My knives are old friends, not disposable tools. There are tons of those tools at the hardware store, and they are cheap!!
Snoots of the world, UNITE!!!
Click to expand...

All of that makes sense and is appropriate. But I'm not talking about a stockman or a trapper. I'm talking about a sodbuster, which I can pick up locally for $20-$25. That price puts that knife in the same range as a lot of these SAKs. Sure, the design considerations aren't the same for Case as they are Victorinox. But, I am stating that I'm willing to pay/wanting for the same Case sodbuster just with a 154CM (or D2 or whatever steel we want to talk about) blade in it. And while changing the blade steel would change HT and grinding costs/protocols, I doubt we'd be looking at a knife that needed to cost more than $40 or so. I think the point that Mr. Latham was trying to drive home was just this: a sodbuster with an upgraded blade steel in the vicinity of that price point marketed to be a knife that gets used and not a collector's limited availability thing, just swooned over in a glass display case or an Instagram feed.

Also, I've owned several Case Sodbusters in Delrin. The lines aren't as refined as GEC's Bullnose, but those case knives don't have any less soul in them than a GEC. They're hand made about as much as a GEC is, and one of the most satisfying knives I've ever owned was the Yellow Delrin TruSharp SBJ. Heck, even GEC uses delrin on some bullnoses and hay'n helpers.

This red SAK - sure, it's more generic, and not in the same class, but even this thing, after some use and wear, has taken on some character, because it is a trusty companion and it does it's job. I don't want anything different from this (I would take a different blade steel here, too, but I'm happy with this for a $17 tool). Give it another 10 years of use and it will feel vintage and special, which is how a lot of those old Schrades and Robesons and Imperials got their character, too.
 
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oldtymer said:
Knarfeng you are right about the parts being produced on automated machines but every knife is assembled by a person
and the final inspection & packaging also.
Considering the amount of knives they produce every year the quality & function is constant.
Too bad Victorinox doesn't make a Sodbuster:(
Click to expand...

The 108mm (no longer in production) and 111mm single layer Victorinox SAKs are not really that different from sodbusters, although the 111mm models do have blade locks.
 
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oldtymer said:
Knarfeng you are right about the parts being produced on automated machines but every knife is assembled by a person
and the final inspection & packaging also.
Considering the amount of knives they produce every year the quality & function is constant.
Too bad Victorinox doesn't make a Sodbuster:(
Click to expand...

I'm afraid you entirely missed my point. They are uniform in large part because of the design. The SAK design is lends itself to uniformity and ease of production.
 
Just reminded of ANOTHER Sodbuster bargain I got a few years ago: Böker Argentina carbon Sodbuster, nice sharpening and holding steel, thick comfortable handle slabs in a nice pale custard yellow delrin. F&F rather rough and generally coarse but tough & solid. I think it was around 20 USD not seen any of the Argentina knives recently though.

Undeniably, there are bargain priced knives out there that are decent and likeable, quite a lot of them so I now think adding to them would be of little point.
 
Camillus said:
Nice idea, but I think that the beater market is too cramped - you have folding and fixed blade options like Opinel, Hultafors, Svord, SOG, Mora, then you have the secondary market vintage Camillus and Schrade, then cheaper modern folding knives like a RAT1 or a Buck Vantage all competing in that space.
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Don't you find it ironic you posting above under a user name of "Camillus"? :)

There's always room for the beater marker. I think the "upscale" factories really may no want to touch it because the profit margin would require too much demand so they'll stick with items for which command higher sales prices.
 
Struggling. But the irony is lost on me!

I am embarrassed about that username actually. I just entered the first name that popped into my head - not expecting it not to already be taken and I shouldn't have taken it. Its a bit silly..

Anyway back on topic
 
waynorth said:
I admire the Swiss Army line for the consistency and dependability.
But there is nothing that replaces the pleasure of taking out a vintage Robeson or Schrade, or my beloved, weathered TC Barlow. These knives have soul!
Saks are faithful, but a bit of a snore by comparison!
I guess I am too Snooty to own/use an indistinguishable knife, no matter how wonderous the steel in the blade
Click to expand...
Having a preference doesn't make you snooty, we can have both vintage knives and SAKs as well, but we can prefer not to. There is always more than one pocket for a knife....
 
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waynorth said:
If I am going to destroy a knife it will be a cheap box cutter, or a proper scraper - or a pry bar!!
My knives are old friends, not disposable tools. There are tons of those tools at the hardware store, and they are cheap!!
Click to expand...

My sentiments exactly. My Dad has a penchant for using his knives as screwdrivers and he recently dug out an old Imperial pen knife that I remember him carrying from my boyhood. How sad to see the tips broken on both blades. Having a knife lovingly worn down by years of carrying and sharpening is a world apart from a blade meeting an early demise from abuse, or from simply using what's in your pocket instead of reaching for the proper tool.

On the original question, I think this theoretical knife's cousin is already marketed with Case's Sod Busters and they seem to sell quite well. With a "beater" knife, I guess I can see that a super steel blade might be preferable to 420HC, except for ease of sharpening. The $30 price point is the hurdle to get over.

I think of a beater knife as one that would live in my tackle box, or tool box and I wouldn't care if it were scratched up or ugly...it only needs to be an available sharp blade when something needs to be cut, but the job is too grungy for one of my nicer folders. Looks don't matter, it just has to be sharp. Like everyone else here, I always have a couple of nice folders in my pockets, but I'm not going to pull them out for the wrong job.

i don't think we are too snooty to buy such a knife, I just think it's already there in most cases. Even my venerable Buck 110 costs less than $30 at the local big box store. Again, not super steel, but it cuts anything I ask it to.

Maybe think about what we already use as beater knives and see if you would honestly buy one of these theoretical knives to replace it? In my tool box I have a folding box cutter with replaceable safety razor blades, along with an Old Hickory paring knife. My tackle box has a Rapala filet knife and nail clippers for trimming line. My range bag has a SAK Journeyman. In my Jeep's glove box, an identical box cutter and a Buck 110. I can't see myself buying a specific knife to replace these.
 
The OP has brought up a interesting point thanks for posting.

I guess my age does have an advantage in that ignorance is bliss. What I mean is I grew up, come of age and was a young man at a time that knife was a knife you always carried one they were made in the USA and nobody ever spoke of blade steel. The Bucks, Cases, Schrades, Colonials, Camillus and so on we carried worked great and did every task we set them to. Sharpening stones were about anything you could imagine from the bottom of a coffee cup to a rock we found laying on the ground and when we wanted to get serious there was pocket Whetstone. We learned of stropping from our barber and found our pant leg or an old belt worked well for that task. We knew to both respect our knives and not to use them for unintended purposes and that they would perform best when maintained.

As time passed and I became a collector I went modern folder for a while still ignorant of blade steel it was not until about 6 or 7 years ago when I discovered BF that blade steel even came into my vocabulary. Though I knew nothing about metallurgy I allowed those here that spoke of the wonders of modern steel to enable me into spending a lot of money on knives with blades made of these steels.

In the case of the humble sodbuster the CV or SS Case uses on theirs is absolutely fine with me. As long as you keep them sharp and watch for wire edge that can be stropped off on you pant leg they will take a great edge.

I think one of the things that make folks become snooty about blade steel is that freehand sharpening is becoming a lost skill and we're seeking steels that require less sharpening but when most of these steels get dull they are a bugger to sharpen. I also have found that a lot of these steels are so hard they chip easily. I realize D2 and CPM154 are good steels but for me they will never cause me to turn my nose up at a good old CV Case Sodbuster. I do believe that the only one's that would be to snooty for an economy sodbuster would be in the knife collector world only because the average Joe will pick out something at the local big box store for $10 because it looks cool.
 
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Whetstone39 said:
Knife enthusiasts, especially traditional aficionados, would likely snap them up, of course depending on the finished product. A lot of us appreciate the straightforward and usefull sodbuster design, and a good steel like D2.

Just my $0.02, I'd buy a couple at least
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From a marketing standpoint, such a knife would bring in sales from those who are used to the throwaway beater type knives but looking for something that is actually better as a user, but do not desire to commit to a higher end knife until they have had some experience. It would be an "entry level" product to bring in more of the next generation of enthusiasts. The sort of thing one could give to a responsible kid, to demonstrate the material difference in blade quality.
 
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I love D2 and I love the large Sodbuster pattern. One of my most used knives is my GEC Bull Buster. Even though it is a work knife for me, and I use it pretty hard, I still take pride in ownership, as I do also for my Delrin-handled Case. My Grandpa taught me early to take care of and maintain every tool. He was a small farmer and couldn't afford to do otherwise.

The SBJ/Country Cousin/Bull Nose are just a bit too small for me to consider as hard use work knives due to the handle size. I'd love to see a large Sodbuster pattern with D2 steel, a half stop, micarta handles, and a lockback. It may not be a $25 beater, but it easily adds enough 'value' to be worth double that price. For me, it is 'value' that drives my purchasing decision where tools like a work knife are considered.

Better grip + better steel + better safety = better value. It's an easy equation for me to get behind.
 
everybody is dismissing or neglecting branding. Etch the non-gec $30 D2 beater with "TC Sodbuster" and it'll pre-sell-out in 10 minutes. (half joking)
 
jrawk said:
everybody is dismissing or neglecting branding. Etch the non-gec $30 D2 beater with "TC Sodbuster" and it'll pre-sell-out in 10 minutes. (half joking)
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Right? It's all about the marketing and the image, which is what knifeswapper relayed from the company at Blade.
 
Opinel and Victorinox are prime examples of quality and cost savings. I think it is a tough thing to sell a $30 knife to the people who frequently buy the more expensive knives but if the materials match the price point and the quality and if it was done with a reputable vendor as an exclusive start there it would I believe bolster the opinions of those who might turn their nose up at it. I will say I would look more at hitting the $50 price point than $30 just to make it more worthwhile for the manufacturer and less likely to have noses turned up at it.
 
I have to imagine that most wanting a beater knife will be buying non traditionals, the hard use suits them better. Snooty? I think the buyers of most US style traditionals are not buying this kind of knife and visa versa. Even if it is to be a slipjoint, a SAK is cheaper/as cheap and probably far better made than the current options. No it's not exciting but heck, we're talking about a beater right? Specifically not a showcase. Oh and it will have some added tools too so you can pry stuff without having to use the blade and pop your beer at the end of the day.

That said I'd buy a D2 sodbuster at that price (probably a few!) in a heartbeat. I carried the Case SB Jr every day for 6 months and loved everything about it but the blade steel (and grind actually). I loved the thick delrin handle, the strong spring, the bomb proof-ness of it. Most of all it was a beater. If you dropped it you wouldn't cry, if you broke it you would shrug it off and if you lost it? Not the end of the world.
 
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