What Makes a Good, Traditional Barlow?

waynorth said:
Hiya Codger!! Nice to see you putting a word in!!
How ya been?? Where ya been!!

Charlie
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Oh I've been around. Doing ok. I recently found this thread and started rereading it. And now darnit I am buying a few more Barlows just because. Trying not to venture too far afield from the affordable user common brands but darnit again, even sticking to mostly Schrade and Camillus that leaves a bunch of patterns before you get to commems and special editions. Or Ulsters.

So I bought a Camillus Tip Top #11 (c. 1946) as a companion to my edc Camillus #51 (c. 1956).


And then reading back on info given by Tom Williams, I remembered the 1938 Kwik Kut Barlow.



Cheap knives but not damaged or badly worn. I'm still looking for a Fulton Barlow made for Sears possibly by Camillus.

 
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Codger_64 said:
Neat! I have one like it too. The mark side is stamped "WESTERN" over "BOULDER COLO" over Made in U.S.A.". The pile side of the pocket blade is stamped"822". Any idea of production era? I assume that the scales are Delrin so 1961 or later. Odd that the linings are steel.
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Codger_64 Codger_64 I would this this with a grain of salt but was informed by the seller that the "Boulder col" tang stamp was used from 1935 to 1950. I have no way to confirm :D
 
Codger_64 said:
Neat! I have one like it too. The mark side is stamped "WESTERN" over "BOULDER COLO" over Made in U.S.A.". The pile side of the pocket blade is stamped"822". Any idea of production era? I assume that the scales are Delrin so 1961 or later. Odd that the linings are steel.
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As you say, if Delrin handles, 1961 onward.

Boulder Colo as part of the stamps was dropped after 1972, so 1961 to 1972. Could possibly be no later than 1967 based on.....

Pile side model numbers started in 1955 and continued to 1967 on fixed blades, then shifting to the guards for late 1967 to 1976. Don't know if the model # stayed on the pile side for folders of if it shifted to the mark side at the time the stamp shifted to the guard on fixed blades. as fixed blades are my primary focus of Western studies.

If anyone has a Western folder (Barlow or otherwise) with a mark side model number and BOULDER COLO in the stamp, that would be an indicator that stamps for folders changed in 1967 when the fixed blade change from pile side to guard model numbers in 1967.

The 1978 catalog states that the 822 had brass scales. The 1968 catalog does not specify brass (or any other material) scales. Unknown as to whether the shift from steel to brass occurred in 1973 when many other line changes happened at Western or in 1977, when more changes occurred, i.e., year codes added.

A Western Barlow with a Western over USA 822 stamp with an "A" date code and steel scales would indicate that the steel to brass change occurred with the 1978 catalog. Brass bolsters on an "A" Barlow would mean we would have to find a Barlow with a WESTERN over USA 822 stamp and NO date code (a 1973 to 1976 knife) - to determine if the change occurred with the 1973 changes.
 
zzyzzogeton said:
As you say, if Delrin handles, 1961 onward.

Boulder Colo as part of the stamps was dropped after 1972, so 1961 to 1972. Could possibly be no later than 1967 based on.....

Pile side model numbers started in 1955 and continued to 1967 on fixed blades, then shifting to the guards for late 1967 to 1976. Don't know if the model # stayed on the pile side for folders of if it shifted to the mark side at the time the stamp shifted to the guard on fixed blades. as fixed blades are my primary focus of Western studies.

If anyone has a Western folder (Barlow or otherwise) with a mark side model number and BOULDER COLO in the stamp, that would be an indicator that stamps for folders changed in 1967 when the fixed blade change from pile side to guard model numbers in 1967.

The 1978 catalog states that the 822 had brass scales. The 1968 catalog does not specify brass (or any other material) scales. Unknown as to whether the shift from steel to brass occurred in 1973 when many other line changes happened at Western or in 1977, when more changes occurred, i.e., year codes added.

A Western Barlow with a Western over USA 822 stamp with an "A" date code and steel scales would indicate that the steel to brass change occurred with the 1978 catalog. Brass bolsters on an "A" Barlow would mean we would have to find a Barlow with a WESTERN over USA 822 stamp and NO date code (a 1973 to 1976 knife) - to determine if the change occurred with the 1973 changes.
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Hats off for your help! Knowing the history helps but bought it because it looked good :)

Quality is definitely there and love the knife!
 
mbkr said:
You've probably seen this, but in case you haven't...
I can't vouch for its veracity. I believe I got it from a thread over at AAPK. Western tang stamps.
View attachment 1575714
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Unfortunately, that stamp set is correct and incorrect and wrong all at the same time. Except for the stamp in line 1 position 4, it does NOT differentiate between what was on folders and what was on fixed blades. And it is incomplete as the sheath knife part was reused 1947 - 1952, along with pile side stamps.

What was on a fixed blade at a particular time MAY or MAY NOT have been what was on a folder during the same time period. It is also missing several stamps. Also, some of the dating is WAY off based on my studies.

I am currently working on 2 stamp chart documents - one specifically for the colored plastic handled P=series B&Ts and a general document for FIXED BLADE stamps that will be posted over on AAPK when I am finished with them. I quit trying to post pictures here on BF when changes to the system made it impossible for me to post pics via google pics. I could see the pics I posted but no one else could no matter what permissions I assigned to the pictures. I'm enough of a horse' ass to NOT want to mess with learning another picture hosting platform foibles.
 
zzyzzogeton said:
As you say, if Delrin handles, 1961 onward.

Boulder Colo as part of the stamps was dropped after 1972, so 1961 to 1972. Could possibly be no later than 1967 based on.....

Pile side model numbers started in 1955 and continued to 1967 on fixed blades, then shifting to the guards for late 1967 to 1976. Don't know if the model # stayed on the pile side for folders of if it shifted to the mark side at the time the stamp shifted to the guard on fixed blades. as fixed blades are my primary focus of Western studies.

If anyone has a Western folder (Barlow or otherwise) with a mark side model number and BOULDER COLO in the stamp, that would be an indicator that stamps for folders changed in 1967 when the fixed blade change from pile side to guard model numbers in 1967.

The 1978 catalog states that the 822 had brass scales. The 1968 catalog does not specify brass (or any other material) scales. Unknown as to whether the shift from steel to brass occurred in 1973 when many other line changes happened at Western or in 1977, when more changes occurred, i.e., year codes added.

A Western Barlow with a Western over USA 822 stamp with an "A" date code and steel scales would indicate that the steel to brass change occurred with the 1978 catalog. Brass bolsters on an "A" Barlow would mean we would have to find a Barlow with a WESTERN over USA 822 stamp and NO date code (a 1973 to 1976 knife) - to determine if the change occurred with the 1973 changes.
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Thank you! Clear as mud, eh? So early 1960's through possibly mid 1970's.

Yes, the steel liners throws me off because I mostly see that in my more familiar brands as a war measure when brass was a strategic material and very restricted for civilian pocket cutlery. I wasn't aware that anyone was still using steel as late as the 1960's. But then again, a Barlow is a purpose built tool, strong, durable and inexpensive to build and to purchase.

In reading interviews with the founders of Imperial, one said that the estimated lifetime of a pocket knife was five or six years. Of course this during a time when daily cutting tasks were more common and more demanding. Census says that in 1940 43% of Americans were rural. Today it is less than 20%.
 
Okay - Just did a fleabay search on WESTERN KNIFE BARLOW. Results show TWO with WESTERN over USA mark side and 822 over BARLOW on the pile side. With brass scales.

This tells us that, at least for the Barlow, brass scales were introduced not later than 1973. Since Codger's pre-1967/1973 has steel scales, the introduction of brass scales is now either 1967 or 1973. IF, and it is a big IF, we can find a WESTERN over BOULDER COLO mark side stamp and a pile side 822 or 822 over BARLOW stamp.

I probably should have studied the folders over the years, but they never have been much in my collecting wheelhouse.

Proving a negative is hard, An investigation of Western Barlows MIGHT make it possible to differentiate between a 1967- 1972 Barlow and a pre-1967 barlow, but ONLY if the 1967-1972 Barlow stamped BOULDER COLO on the mark side and has Barlow under the 822 on the pile side (BARLOW is missing under the 822 pre-1967). If the 1967 - 1972 stamp is the same as pre-1967 Barlow, then only brass scales with a pre-1967 stamp would indicate that the knife was a 1967-1972. And solve the brass scale introduction quandry.
 
zzyzzogeton said:
Okay - Just did a fleabay search on WESTERN KNIFE BARLOW. Results show TWO with WESTERN over USA mark side and 822 over BARLOW on the pile side. With brass scales.

This tells us that, at least for the Barlow, brass scales were introduced not later than 1973. Since Codger's pre-1967/1973 has steel scales, the introduction of brass scales is now either 1967 or 1973. IF, and it is a big IF, we can find a WESTERN over BOULDER COLO mark side stamp and a pile side 822 or 822 over BARLOW stamp.

I probably should have studied the folders over the years, but they never have been much in my collecting wheelhouse.

Proving a negative is hard, An investigation of Western Barlows MIGHT make it possible to differentiate between a 1967- 1972 Barlow and a pre-1967 barlow, but ONLY if the 1967-1972 Barlow stamped BOULDER COLO on the mark side and has Barlow under the 822 on the pile side (BARLOW is missing under the 822 pre-1967). If the 1967 - 1972 stamp is the same as pre-1967 Barlow, then only brass scales with a pre-1967 stamp would indicate that the knife was a 1967-1972. And solve the brass scale introduction quandry.
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Wish I could get a picture of the mark. Don't forget the full third line. WESTERN over BOULDER COLO over MADE IN USA mark side stamp and a pile side 822.

 
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Yeah, that 3 line mark side stamp with 822 on the pile side is the 1955 to 1967 set of stamps. I have only recently started investigating Western folders. What I haven't determined is what change, if any, occurred on folding knife stamps in 1967. There may have been no change at all, the scales may have changed to brass or not. The word BARLOW may have been added in 1967 or it may not have been added in 1973. And similar questions arise on EVERY Western folding knife for the period - what changes were made when.

Fixed blade stampings, while complex, are much more straight forward. The number of models and options within each model of Western folding knife, especially in the pre-WW2 era, was legion.
 
Codger_64 said:
Wish I could get a picture of the mark. Don't forget the full third line. WESTERN over BOULDER COLO over MADE IN USA mark side stamp and a pile side 822.

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Mine is the same except it has "Western" partially taken off by the blade grind 😣
 
NY Knife - 3 Barlows!
I took these pieces for a knifemaker, and thought they would make a nice inclusion in this thread!!NYK three 1.jpgNYK three 2.jpgNYK three 3.jpgNYK three 4.jpgNYK three 5.jpgNYK three 6.jpg
This one along with the progeny TC is the one used to model the GEC production!! Barlow Brothers!! Of course that's old Boiley in there, further customized with silver ink by yours truly!!
NYK three w TC 1.jpgNYK three w TC 2.jpg
 
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