Why Water Stones?

Smaug said:
I'm not putting down freehand sharpening. It certainly is less equipment-intensive than any kind of fixtured sharpening.

The reason I said it is less efficient is that as a human, there is human error with regards to maintaining the angle, so in order to get it sharp, it takes more grinding. ...unless you're saying that you're more efficient than a machine, on which the angle is mechanically maintained?
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What HeavyHanded, DeadboxHero, and Eli Chaps said. They all know a lot more about sharpening than I do. :)

I agree that no human can repeatedly hold exactly the same sharpening angle, but that's not an issue for me. The worst that can happen (without getting sloppy about sharpening, of course) is that the edge gets slightly convexed, which is a good thing, IMO.
 
Unless it's a trophy to be placed on display, the proof is in the cutting. If it does the job, there's not much to complain about.

Of course, this being a knife forum, we split hairs, (pun intended), with abandon as we revel in our first world problems about how to determine if an edge is quite sharp enough long after the task would have been simply handled by pulling out the knife and putting it to work in the first place.

What a fortunate (or comical) group we are, depending on one's perspective and which world one has either or both feet standing in. :D

Happy and safe holidays to you all... :cool:
 
Eli Chaps said:
Did you have something you wanted to talk about around that?
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The title of the thread is "Why waterstones?" and I essentially said "There is no good reason."

That's on topic. But you don't see it that way and seem to be getting defensive.

But the OP was actually not asking that question. He had already decided he was going to do it and just wanted validation. I get that too, but have nothing more to contribute to this thread.
 
Ya be like a guy that walks into an ice cream shop, looks at all the different flavors and scream at the top of your lungs.

"There is no good reason to have any flavor besides vanilla!!"

:D

Lighten up.



Smaug said:
The title of the thread is "Why waterstones?" and I essentially said "There is no good reason."

That's on topic. But you don't see it that way and seem to be getting defensive.

But the OP was actually not asking that question. He had already decided he was going to do it and just wanted validation. I get that too, but have nothing more to contribute to this thread.
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Smaug said:
The title of the thread is "Why waterstones?" and I essentially said "There is no good reason."

That's on topic. But you don't see it that way and seem to be getting defensive.

But the OP was actually not asking that question. He had already decided he was going to do it and just wanted validation. I get that too, but have nothing more to contribute to this thread.
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I am the OP. :)

I'm not getting defensive, just trying to keep us from straying off topic. If you want to talk water stones and your thoughts on them, by all means, stick around.
 
So I already have the Shapton Glass 2k and I was able to pick up a CKTG 140 diamond plate quite reasonably.

My direction after the holidays will be:

- Shapton Glass 500
- Triple B Handmade/Knife House Micarta Strop with 1um diamond spray. I need a new strop and this one has sung to me since I first saw them however far back.
- Not a water stone, but the third thing will be a new higher grit diamond bench stone for my higher-alloy knives

It'll take me little time to acquire that stuff. It won't be all at once and I'll be leaning on my current oil/diamond stones for the course work if it comes up. I also have a very nice Black Arkansas I can polish on I suppose.

But once I have those things it will be deciding if I want to get a low grit or high grit stone?

I was thinking the SG 4k might come next but I'm not sure how much more polished I'll want to go. Well, I should probably be honest with myself as say how much more polished I'll need to go because I will undoubtedly want to do it if for no other reason that I did it. :) I also don't know if the 2k-4k step makes much of a difference.
 
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Ya can never have enough stones Eli.
:D

Eli Chaps said:
So I already have the Shapton Glass 2k and I was able to pick up a CKTG 140 diamond plate quite reasonably.

My direction after the holidays will be:

- Shapton Glass 500
- Triple B Handmade/Knife House Micarta Strop with 1um diamond spray. I need a new strop and this one has sung to me since I first saw them however far back.
- Not a water stone, but the third thing will be a new higher grit diamond bench stone for my higher-alloy knives

It'll take ma little time to acquire that stuff. It won't be all at once and I'll be leaning on my current oil/diamond stones for the course work if it comes up. I also have a very nice Black Arkansas I can polish on I suppose.

But once I have those things it will be deciding if I want to get a low grit or high grit stone?

I was thinking the SG 4k might come next but I'm not sure how much more polished I'll want to go. Well, I should probably be honest with myself as say how much more polished I'll need to go because I will undoubtedly want to do it if for no other reason that I did it. :) I also don't know if the 2k-4k step makes much of a difference.
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Eli Chaps said:
Shawn, do you polish your own kitchen knives? I know that's a very broad question so you can take it as shallow or deep as you want. I'm just curious about your personal preference.
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Usually no, I just like a ~1k finish with a 1um strop best.

There are merits for higher finish but also trade offs.
 
Eli Chaps said:
So I already have the Shapton Glass 2k and I was able to pick up a CKTG 140 diamond plate quite reasonably.

My direction after the holidays will be:

- Shapton Glass 500
- Triple B Handmade/Knife House Micarta Strop with 1um diamond spray. I need a new strop and this one has sung to me since I first saw them however far back.
- Not a water stone, but the third thing will be a new higher grit diamond bench stone for my higher-alloy knives

It'll take me little time to acquire that stuff. It won't be all at once and I'll be leaning on my current oil/diamond stones for the course work if it comes up. I also have a very nice Black Arkansas I can polish on I suppose.

But once I have those things it will be deciding if I want to get a low grit or high grit stone?

I was thinking the SG 4k might come next but I'm not sure how much more polished I'll want to go. Well, I should probably be honest with myself as say how much more polished I'll need to go because I will undoubtedly want to do it if for no other reason that I did it. :) I also don't know if the 2k-4k step makes much of a difference.
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Have become a fan of the Atoma lineup due to their excellent feedback.

For finishing with diamond I still have not found a stone that tops the diamond jointering stone sold by global tooling. Removes burrs, makes an excellent microbevel or can do larger surface areas. Uses about a 10 micron abrasive in a resin bond, but creates a finish like an 8k waterstone.

I leave it permanently soaking with my other waterstones.

Am open to other options, but this one is so reliable I stopped looking.
 
Eli Chaps said:
That's what I'm thinking. I like courser edges now so not really any reason to change that.
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I definitely recommend trying out a polished finish, one advantage is the push cutting is intensified, you'll also get less cell damage on meats and produce.
For instance if you cut an apple it will take more time to turn brown when left out to oxidize, also the "texture" of the food can be different.

Worth exploring to see what you think.
 
DeadboxHero said:
YBAkxIK.jpg


Ya can never have enough stones Eli.
:D
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Sigh...

With the exception of some old SiC and Arkansas stones scattered about that I haven't seen in some time, this is the bench stone collection.

:oops::D

C83wnpQ.jpg


The stones are usually wrapped, I just opened them up for the picture. SiC, AlO2, Arkansas, diamond, and strops.

Honestly, happy with the contents. Between here and other resources, it's been a well informed selection.

One interesting thing is the Manilla envelope. That's a piece of poly with a strip of adhesive .5um diamond lapidary film on it. In the process of gutting an old room at work and building a lab, I found a pack of these. They were open and we're highly sensitive to contaminants in our lab so they didn't want to use them and I got permission to take them. Just a couple discs that I cut into strips.

Cool to play with but given the cost I doubt I'll ever replace them when they wear out. :)
 
For push cutting/chopping - which after all is generally vegetables & fruit - polished edges are great.
On the CKTG forum there was a thread asking who takes their edges to a higher refinement and the ones that do are doing it on nakiris and cleavers - chopping/push cutting blades.
 
Ourorboros said:
For push cutting/chopping - which after all is generally vegetables & fruit - polished edges are great.
On the CKTG forum there was a thread asking who takes their edges to a higher refinement and the ones that do are doing it on nakiris and cleavers - chopping/push cutting blades.
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HeavyHanded said:
All my choppers get taken to a high polish, including Chef's knives, machetes, hatchets.

Anything for off hand use is kept toothy, very toothy in some cases.
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Oh I get it! What you two are telling me is I need to buy a new knife so I can keep it polished. Brilliant!!!

:D
 
Eli Chaps Eli Chaps ,

I really love a 6k finish on my veggie cutters in the kitchen. Particularly my santoku. I quite enjoy cooking and quite often my style calls for very finely sliced vegetables (imagine Michelin star here, but without the Michelin or the star).

I’d never had a polishing stone either and so before dropping a shed load of money I bought the King 6000. Now everything is relative of course, but imo that is a truly fantastic stone for the price point. Less than half the price of another higher brand and it will polish and mirror an edge nicely. It’s effectively splash and go and is very hard. It loads up like a mofo but nothing a nagura can’t take away...
 
Doing a lot of chopping and mincing you really come to appreciate the more polished edge.

For woodworking its mandatory.
 
Yet again, many thanks to HeavyHanded HeavyHanded .

It's been a month and while I still only have the 2k water stone, I've been using it quite a bit. After the honeymoon glow wore off I realized I was still somewhat flustered. My edges were starting show signs of compound grinding, especially on the left side. I just had too many variables at play. Somewhere in here HH told me to worry less about adjusting my hand technique and switching hands and focus on being natural and comfortable.

Today I sharpened three knives and went back to a lot of the technique I've been using for so many years. I started messing with sort of a hybrid of my old way and slowly starting to straighten things out and little more push-pull style. Soooooo much better! Confidence restored and edges looking pretty darned good!

It's a lot easier to move around on this higher grit water stone too so that's not for just kind of moving and focusing spots.

Dropping down to one of my oils or diamond stones when necessary has been working fine but I'm still going to broaden the water stone herd for sure! Although I haven't yet grabbed it, I have the black Arkansas stone within reach but all my others are put away. I never thought I'd say that!

Still having fun! Still learning!

:)
 
Personally I hit a ceiling with my technique until I switched over to my left hand side It allowed me to maintain the knife at a 45° angle of orientation in relation to the stone just like on my right side with the spine away from me which is huge for keeping the knife nice and steady on the stone when moving back and forth. Also makes the same scratch pattern I get on my right side, It certainly paid off to make the switch It was difficult initially because all I wanted to do was be awesome but I think it's definitely worth it to step outside ones comfort zone.


I think one problem here on forums is everybody has a different way of doing something and if you try to follow every person's different way of doing something you'll be more confused than ever.

Just find something you like and stick with it and branch out when curiosity demands or if there is potential for huge improvement but I wouldn't worry about idiosyncrasies and chasing them.

Eli Chaps said:
Yet again, many thanks to HeavyHanded HeavyHanded .

It's been a month and while I still only have the 2k water stone, I've been using it quite a bit. After the honeymoon glow wore off I realized I was still somewhat flustered. My edges were starting show signs of compound grinding, especially on the left side. I just had too many variables at play. Somewhere in here HH told me to worry less about adjusting my hand technique and switching hands and focus on being natural and comfortable.

Today I sharpened three knives and went back to a lot of the technique I've been using for so many years. I started messing with sort of a hybrid of my old way and slowly starting to straighten things out and little more push-pull style. Soooooo much better! Confidence restored and edges looking pretty darned good!

It's a lot easier to move around on this higher grit water stone too so that's not for just kind of moving and focusing spots.

Dropping down to one of my oils or diamond stones when necessary has been working fine but I'm still going to broaden the water stone herd for sure! Although I haven't yet grabbed it, I have the black Arkansas stone within reach but all my others are put away. I never thought I'd say that!

Still having fun! Still learning!

:)
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