Will CPM154CM ever die???

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Maddogg774 said:
Isn't QTRM5TR's new knives made out of CPM154cm?
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No. QTRM5TR may think their new knives are made out of CPM154cm, but take my word for it. That alloy does not exist.

The final authority on this is the manufacturer of the alloys (CPM-154 and 154CM). Their name is Crucible. Here's their product page:

http://www.crucible.com/products.aspx

Let me know if you can you find an alloy called CPM154CM. (PS: It might help if you keep in mind that the name "Crucible" and the trademark "CPM" don't mean the same thing.)
 
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Oddly enough I don't own any CPM154 knives, though I do have a RWL34 blade.

It does confuse me when I see knifemakers say CPM154CM - as experts, I'd think they'd know the difference.
 
I thought Ed Schemp gave an explanation on the Spyderco forums why it's called that sometimes. The thread was about S90/CPM154 laminate. I might be wrong.
 
Apec said:
It does confuse me when I see knifemakers say CPM154CM - as experts, I'd think they'd know the difference.
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I would too. But 12345678910 makes a good point. If the distributor doesn't know the correct name of the alloy, how on earth is the knifemaker supposed to know? :confused: This is a classic example of garbage in, garbage out.
 
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My understanding is that CPM 154 and 154CM are the same alloy, one is produced in the standard way and the other is produced using powder-steel production methods.

CPM doesn't refer to an alloy, but is a trademark for steel made using Crucible's power-steel technology.

When I see CPM 154CM I see 154CM steel made using Crucible's power-steel process.
 
That may be a conclusion you're comfortable drawing. But I'm not. It would be far too easy for someone to pawn off 154CM knives under the fictitious banner of CPM154CM and charge more for them because people are too gullible to ask what they're actually made out of. That's a risk I'm unwilling to take. But then, I won't buy knives made out of Unobtanium either. ;)
 
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CPM 154 and 154CM aren't the same steel....

They alloy content may or may not be the same as they do add Vanadium into CPM 154 for grain refinement and to help with edge retention.
 
Thanks, Jim. I was under the impression that the only difference between them is the fact that CPM-154 is the particle version of 154CM, not that that isn't an important distinction. But I wasn't aware that Crucible added some Vanadium to CPM-154. I learn something new every day. :)
 
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I was just thinking that Jared had alloys no one else did. ;)I saw the new line marketed as cpm154cm on a dealer website.
 
Aldo was not the first to call it CPM154CM, you would have to blame Crucible for that in some small part. If vanadium is added, that is likely not public knowledge, as the nominal content advertised online does not show vanadium.

Man, I'd hate for them to make CPM D2 or CPM M4, since D2 and M4 are AISI designations and are not PM alloys.
 
hardheart said:
Aldo was not the first to call it CPM154CM, you would have to blame Crucible for that in some small part.
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Yes, I'm aware of that. IIRC, Crucible's original designation was CPM-154CM. But they realized how confusing that would have been so they changed the designation to CPM-154 before the alloy was officially released. Thank heaven they managed to make all the confusion go away when they did that. :doh:
 
I'd be interested in whether CPM 154 has any added vanadium, but my understanding is that CPM 154 is the same alloy as 154CM, which is what the company itself says.

The alloy is 154CM. CPM is just a powered version of the alloy 154. If someone tells you the knive steel is CPM 154CM, it is the powdered version. The CPM 154 name is just a shortened version of 154CM.

I don't get all the outrage. It seems clear to me.


"Crucible 154 CM is a modification of 440C martensitic stainless steel to which molybdenum has been added. 154 CM has better corrosion resistance, better wear resistance and better hot-hardness than 440C. For knife makers, it offers better edge retention than 440C. It also has higher attainable hardness and better through hardening characteristics than 440C."
http://www.matweb.com/search/datasheettext.aspx?matguid=959587b1d8e742ff828859efa8ab1e73


"CPM 154 is CPM-manufactured version of Crucible’s
standard 154 CM. The CPM manufacturing process
produces a uniform distribution of the carbides in this grade,
giving this CPM 154 easier grinding and polishing, plus
better toughness, than conventional 154 CM, while retaining
similar heat treat response and wear properties. CPM 154
offers better corrosion resistance, better wear resistance and
better hot-hardness than 440C, plus higher toughness. For
knifemakers, it offers better edge retention and chipping
resistance than 440C"
http://www.crucible.com/PDFs\DataSheets2010\Datasheet CPM 154 CMv12010.pdf

"CPM™ 154
- Crucible Particle Metallurgy version of 154CM. Significantly better then it's predecessor. Purer steel, with finer carbides. Elemental makeup is identical to 154CM, however, rumors are CPM154 contains small amounts of Vanadium, thus being more wear resistant, however Crucible representative stated Vanadium in the alloy is residual, not intentional."

http://zknives.com/knives/kitchen/misc/articles/kkchoser/kksteelp2.shtml
 
Twindog beat me to it. The alloys are identical, the manufacturing process is different. CPM-154 performs better in my experience, which is saying something because 154CM is already an excellent steel. In most practical applications, you won't be able to tell the difference.
 
I am starting to understand the question here...
bld522 said:
Will CPM154CM ever die???
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It all depends on what you are cutting and what you are using the knife to do. As long as you are not abusing it, no, CPM154CM will not die on you.
Let me know if there is anything else I can help with.
 
Maddogg774 said:
Cpm can be considered a brand name, not a process.
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Perhaps. But CPM is distinguishable from the brand name "Crucible" in the fact that ALL CPM alloys are particle alloys. That what makes "CPM" alloys different than alloys that bear only the "Crucible" brand name.
 
Twindog said:
If someone tells you the knive steel is CPM 154CM, it is the powdered version. The CPM 154 name is just a shortened version of 154CM.
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Wow, really? Precisely who at Crucible told you that . . . ???

Regardless of what anyone says, there is no such alloy as CPM154CM. If someone . . . ANYONE . . . tells you the knife steel is CPM154CM, they are mistaken.

When all else fails, consult the manufacturer.
 
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bld522 said:
Wow, really? Precisely who at Crucible told you that . . . ???

Regardless of what anyone says, there is no such alloy as CPM154CM. If someone tells you the knife steel is CPM154CM, they don't know what they're talking about.
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I quoted you the exact description from Crucible's website and gave you the links. CPM 154CM is the powdered version of Crucible's standard 154CM. They call it CPM (a trademark, not an allow) 154 as a shorted form of CPM 154CM. But it's the same stuff.
 
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