Will CPM154CM ever die???

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Saw this:

CrucibleMetals_zpsab4ff448.jpg
 
http://www.crucible.com/PDFs/DataSheets2010/Datasheet CPM 154 CMv12010.pdf

Yeah it's at the bottom of the sheet, in small print because when they 1st started making CPM 154 they called it CPM 154CM so the makers could relate to what it was since it was a new steel then.

What happened was it confused people more than helped so they shorted it to CPM 154 for the powered vers.

So there really is no steel called CPM 154CM and if it's labeled that way today it's in error.....
 
That's my understanding as well. But I stated that the term "CPM154CM" did not appear anywhere in official Crucible literature and I was wrong. There's just no wiggle room in that.
 
12345678910 said:
They are just calling it like it was labeled when they bought it.

http://newjerseysteelbaron.com/shop/cpm-154cm/


If it's important to you, call Aldo and get it changed.
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I took your advice, except I sent an e-mail instead of making a call. Here's their reply:

"Funny story, we just had this discussion with the sales representative at the rolling mill we source our CPM product through. The product we receive has come through and been sold to us as CPM 154CM and 154-CM, labeled on both the steel that arrives and the invoices and packing lists, even the certs. Now, because we are under contract to be able to use the Crucible Powder Metal brand name and designation, we chose to list it as we received it. Enter the confusion you mentioned between the grades, and of course add in ATS-34, you have a whole slew of confused knife makers, young and old alike. We are now installing a new inventory system, and with that update to our website and system, the distinction will be made more clear as well as the CM being dropped, seeing as you are not the first to mention this. Thank you for taking time out of your day to show due diligence. All the best.

Peter Bruno
NJ Steel Baron, LLC"
 
bld522 said:
I took your advice, except I sent an e-mail instead of making a call. Here's their reply:

"Funny story, we just had this discussion with the sales representative at the rolling mill we source our CPM product through. The product we receive has come through and been sold to us as CPM 154CM and 154-CM, labeled on both the steel that arrives and the invoices and packing lists, even the certs. Now, because we are under contract to be able to use the Crucible Powder Metal brand name and designation, we chose to list it as we received it. Enter the confusion you mentioned between the grades, and of course add in ATS-34, you have a whole slew of confused knife makers, young and old alike. We are now installing a new inventory system, and with that update to our website and system, the distinction will be made more clear as well as the CM being dropped, seeing as you are not the first to mention this. Thank you for taking time out of your day to show due diligence. All the best.

Peter Bruno
NJ Steel Baron, LLC"
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The scary part of that is that it sounds like even they don't know what they have, the Particle steel CPM) or the regular Melt steel (CM).




Big Mike
 
There is that, all right. And now you understand why I don't trust that a knife constructed of "CPM154CM" is made out of CPM-154 rather than 154CM. If others want to make that assumption, however, that's just fine with me.
 
Sorry for all of the confusion in regards to the naming of CPM 154. Peter is right that the nomenclature is CPM 154-CM on the material certificates. One way to tell if it is CPM versus airmelt is to look at the heat number. All air melt heats start with the letter A. All CPM heats start with the letter P or H. I know this does not help you if you are buying a knife from someone who etches CPM 154-CM on the blade, but it should be verifiable if you buy the material from one of our distributors. We provide them all with the mill certificate and they should be able to send you a copy upon request. We will contact our distributors to see if they can all name the grades either 154-CM or CPM 154 to eliminate this problem.
 
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Thank you for the information. I did a quick search and found a chart that further illustrates the problem.
http://www.nsm-ny.com/images/knifesteel.jpg
The chart uses the name CPM 154CM to describe the steel and also illustrates how much tougher the CPM 154 alloy can be, since the 154-CM steel is also listed.
In a nutshell this is why we care what the steel is called and why there is confusion.
 
And going to the same web site and looking at NSM-NY's Knife Steel Products page, they list it as "CPM 154", not "CPM 154CM", so obviously NSM-NY does not have an AR proof reader checking webpages before publishing to the world. Or if they do, there is more than 1 proof reader, and they don't look at every page, just the ones that are assigned to them.

http://www.nsm-ny.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=page.display&page_id=27
 
bld522 said:
I took your advice, except I sent an e-mail instead of making a call. Here's their reply:

"Funny story, we just had this discussion with the sales representative at the rolling mill we source our CPM product through. The product we receive has come through and been sold to us as CPM 154CM and 154-CM, labeled on both the steel that arrives and the invoices and packing lists, even the certs. Now, because we are under contract to be able to use the Crucible Powder Metal brand name and designation, we chose to list it as we received it. Enter the confusion you mentioned between the grades, and of course add in ATS-34, you have a whole slew of confused knife makers, young and old alike. We are now installing a new inventory system, and with that update to our website and system, the distinction will be made more clear as well as the CM being dropped, seeing as you are not the first to mention this. Thank you for taking time out of your day to show due diligence. All the best.

Peter Bruno
NJ Steel Baron, LLC"
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So what did I get when I purchased the steel listed as CPM 154-CM? Somewhere I remember reading that the CPM 154 CM went through some additional steps in annealing and was supposed to be a better steel than CPM154 sold by others.
 
Let me know when you discuss the finer points of SM-100 and Stellite 6K and I'll become interested. Oh, and don't check the VIN number on your car :)

PS: The CPM 154CM drives me nuts, too.
 
bld522 said:
I'm still seeing knifemakers, dealers, and users refer to a nonexistent alloy . . . CPM154CM. Not only does that alloy not exist, it isn't even POSSIBLE for it to exist by definition. Why, you ask? Because 154CM is NOT a particle steel and CPM stands for "Crucible PARTICLE Metallurgy". It can't be both a PARTICLE steel (CPM) and a NON-PARTICLE steel (154CM) at the same time.

We're dealing with TWO different alloys here . . . 154CM and CPM154. 154CM is the predecessor and CPM-154 is the particle version of 154CM. Many threads have been posted about this distinction. Rycen was nice enough to gather them all up, so I'll simply point to his post if you want more background:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1024147-CPM154-verses-154CM?p=11674862#post11674862

So what's the problem? First, if someone sells a knife and calls it CPM154CM, I don't know what the knife is actually made out of. And CPM-154 costs more than 154CM. I don't know about you, but I don't want to pay CPM-154 prices for a 154CM knife. Second, saying that a knife is made out of CPM154CM makes the seller look like they don't know or don't care about properly describing what they're selling. Neither one of those alternatives gives me a warm, fuzzy feeling.

So you tell me. Are you OK buying knives made out of "CPM154CM" without doing some investigating first? Or is it just not an issue for you?
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Edmund davidson knives website mentions it as CPM154Cm am confused to get it or not.
 
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