I voted #2 but I have the same thought pattern as SPXTrader. I have a few very nice users from custom makers here on the forum. I am also willing to pay a little more( $175ish also)for a nice user.
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- Thread starter Daniel Koster
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I voted #2 but I have the same thought pattern as SPXTrader. I have a few very nice users from custom makers here on the forum. I am also willing to pay a little more( $175ish also)for a nice user.
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Hi Dan,
I would choose a user-grade at an affordable price.
Explaination: A knife is a tool. It's meant to be used, sometimes beyond it's specifications,
and sometimes for tasks it wasn't meant to perform.
There is always the possibly that it might be broken and have to be repaired and/or replaced.
Guess that comes from my dad being a heavy duty mechanic. He used to tell me a tool is
there to be used. If you don't use it, no sense in having it.
Cheers.
Dave
I would choose a user-grade at an affordable price.
Explaination: A knife is a tool. It's meant to be used, sometimes beyond it's specifications,
and sometimes for tasks it wasn't meant to perform.
There is always the possibly that it might be broken and have to be repaired and/or replaced.
Guess that comes from my dad being a heavy duty mechanic. He used to tell me a tool is
there to be used. If you don't use it, no sense in having it.
Cheers.
Dave
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Higher quality at a higher price is what I prefer, although I can only afford user grade right now.
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For me, performance always comes first; however, aesthetics are important too. I wouldn't mind a "work of art" knife, but as my funds have never allowed me to purchase one, I'll stick with the sub $100 high-quality production users.
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I voted 2 but let me specify that I mean the same maker making the same blade the difference being on knife 2 he had the blade blanks cut out by a third party instead of doing it himself he used canvas micarta instead of say stag he left a rough finish instead of a mirror polish but he did all the grinding by hand and the fit and level of grind is the same.
That said I like the wonder steels like 3v and Infi but I also like O1, 1095 and A2 and I like Desert Ironwood and beautiful burl woods but I also like Micarta and G10 but I would rather have a rougher finish than a mirror polish so that is where I would be most likely to sacrifice to save money. I have no safe queens and one of my favorite knives is a K4 Karda with O1 Steel a beautiful burl handle (I think it is Maple)and I carry and use it all the time.
That said I like the wonder steels like 3v and Infi but I also like O1, 1095 and A2 and I like Desert Ironwood and beautiful burl woods but I also like Micarta and G10 but I would rather have a rougher finish than a mirror polish so that is where I would be most likely to sacrifice to save money. I have no safe queens and one of my favorite knives is a K4 Karda with O1 Steel a beautiful burl handle (I think it is Maple)and I carry and use it all the time.
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I think you have a great balance figured out right now. I've been beating on my bushcraft in the few days I've had it, and it may end up as one of my all-time favorite knives. There is nothing on the knife that I would change, and the price is fantastic. Sure, you could spend a little more time polishing things, but that would only jack up the price and wouldn't noticeably affect the performance.
There are a lot of makers that bring "flash", and there are a lot of companies that make "cheap" knives. There are very few makers that sell top-flight performers at reasonable prices. I would put my 3V Bushcraft up against any of my Busses in terms of performance (so far- I haven't gotten into heavy abuse yet)- but the Koster costs about half of what a comparable Busse goes for. This isn't a knock against Busse, but rather a compliment for Koster. Awesome stuff.
There are a lot of makers that bring "flash", and there are a lot of companies that make "cheap" knives. There are very few makers that sell top-flight performers at reasonable prices. I would put my 3V Bushcraft up against any of my Busses in terms of performance (so far- I haven't gotten into heavy abuse yet)- but the Koster costs about half of what a comparable Busse goes for. This isn't a knock against Busse, but rather a compliment for Koster. Awesome stuff.
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mckrob
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If purely for cosmetic reasons, then I would vote for number two, but a knife doesn't need to be pretty to be well made. I voted for number one; I am willing to pay a premium for high quality materials and worksmanship, but I think you can build a premium user grade knife using high quality materials and create a product that is somewhere between the two; a compromise of finish vs materials.
A knife doesn't have to be pretty to be of the highest quality.
A knife doesn't have to be pretty to be of the highest quality.
Higher quality at a higher price. You buy nice, or you buy twice 
That said; some knives I could see a show piece and a user would be nice to have a safe queen and something I wasn't scared to get dirty.
If you're asking for one or the other my preference would be better quality, higher price.
That said; some knives I could see a show piece and a user would be nice to have a safe queen and something I wasn't scared to get dirty.
If you're asking for one or the other my preference would be better quality, higher price.
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User Grade definitely. Fancy looks are nice and all but coupled with a higher price they tend to make one overly cautious with the item.
MacHete
Hair Cropper & Chipmunk Wrangler
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*sigh*
I voted, but why do we really have to choose?
Surely, Dan, you're not going to make a few set patterns in satin and micarta for the rest of your knifemaking days? And I don't think you're going to dedicate yourself to showroom pieces either.
When I first came to BF many many years ago, I posted in a thread discussing the differences between "production," "handmade" and "custom". Nobody liked my perspective, and I got flamed.
But I stand by my views and definitions. Bear with me while I restate them, and I will try to apply them to this situation.
"Production" is the broadest term. As a noun it is something that is produced. As a verb it is the act of producing something. That's it. When a maker produces a high-end custom, handmade knife, guess what? It's a "production". It really isn't a very useful term, but we commonly use it to differentiate a "mass-produced" item from an individually crafted one.
"Custom" is still a pretty broad term. It basically means made to a customer's specifications. It could be argued that Bark River is a producer of custom knives simply because they offer everything from poured concrete to stale bread in the way of handle materials. A custom maker does not have to render only customer-designed items, he needs only to offer options that a customer may specify.
"Handmade" is a little stickier term. At it's strictest, it would mean entirely made by hand- as without any mechanical assistance. So, if you use a grinder- or even a benchvise- you couldn't call it handmade. A more liberal definition would draw the line at using a jig, or stamping a blank. It, too is not a very useful term.
For our purposes here, I think it is fair to say that the majority of makers we deal with today individually craft a piece using the most effective means available to them to create a knife that will satisfy the customer's desires for function, quality and value.
Customer's desires vary greatly, and quality and value sometimes have to be balanced.
I think a natural progression for a knifemaker would be to turn out simple, modest, basic pieces while gaining skill and experience. As his workmanship and clientele builds, he would inevitably get a request for something "special" in the way of designs and/or materials. If he does those well, he'll get more requests and eventually he will be asked to do an occassional "art" knife- either a customer design or a fancy version of one of his own models. He would never have to abandon his basic designs from the begining of his career, but he would continue to make them better.
Dan, you've been at this for awhile, and no one doubts your skills. I have to wonder why you feel you need to focus your emphasis on one extreme or the other? I believe that you should crank out your basic users. Let them be your bread-and-butter. People will buy them. People will use them. People will like them. And, when they decide that they want something a little prettier, or a little different they'll ask. And, if you get bored with turning out the same old stuff, you will always be free to experiment with a new design, or a new material or a new technique. People will buy those, too. You don't have to squeeze yourself into a pigeonhole of "high-end custom" or "low-cost user".
I voted, but why do we really have to choose?
Surely, Dan, you're not going to make a few set patterns in satin and micarta for the rest of your knifemaking days? And I don't think you're going to dedicate yourself to showroom pieces either.
When I first came to BF many many years ago, I posted in a thread discussing the differences between "production," "handmade" and "custom". Nobody liked my perspective, and I got flamed.
But I stand by my views and definitions. Bear with me while I restate them, and I will try to apply them to this situation.
"Production" is the broadest term. As a noun it is something that is produced. As a verb it is the act of producing something. That's it. When a maker produces a high-end custom, handmade knife, guess what? It's a "production". It really isn't a very useful term, but we commonly use it to differentiate a "mass-produced" item from an individually crafted one.
"Custom" is still a pretty broad term. It basically means made to a customer's specifications. It could be argued that Bark River is a producer of custom knives simply because they offer everything from poured concrete to stale bread in the way of handle materials. A custom maker does not have to render only customer-designed items, he needs only to offer options that a customer may specify.
"Handmade" is a little stickier term. At it's strictest, it would mean entirely made by hand- as without any mechanical assistance. So, if you use a grinder- or even a benchvise- you couldn't call it handmade. A more liberal definition would draw the line at using a jig, or stamping a blank. It, too is not a very useful term.
For our purposes here, I think it is fair to say that the majority of makers we deal with today individually craft a piece using the most effective means available to them to create a knife that will satisfy the customer's desires for function, quality and value.
Customer's desires vary greatly, and quality and value sometimes have to be balanced.
I think a natural progression for a knifemaker would be to turn out simple, modest, basic pieces while gaining skill and experience. As his workmanship and clientele builds, he would inevitably get a request for something "special" in the way of designs and/or materials. If he does those well, he'll get more requests and eventually he will be asked to do an occassional "art" knife- either a customer design or a fancy version of one of his own models. He would never have to abandon his basic designs from the begining of his career, but he would continue to make them better.
Dan, you've been at this for awhile, and no one doubts your skills. I have to wonder why you feel you need to focus your emphasis on one extreme or the other? I believe that you should crank out your basic users. Let them be your bread-and-butter. People will buy them. People will use them. People will like them. And, when they decide that they want something a little prettier, or a little different they'll ask. And, if you get bored with turning out the same old stuff, you will always be free to experiment with a new design, or a new material or a new technique. People will buy those, too. You don't have to squeeze yourself into a pigeonhole of "high-end custom" or "low-cost user".
DavidZ
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I voted for the higher quality, at a higher price. That being said, when it comes down to it, I have in the past purchased both. I would but the higher end one for show, and then the plain Jane for the user. They both have a purpose, and fill a need. That is why this is so hard to decide!
Dave.
Dave.
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I'd also like to say something about price.
Let me give you two figures:
Ranger RD9 - $100
Custom made high polished damascus ivory handled bowie knife - $1000
If I'm buying a tool for the field, those figures make a HUGE difference.
If I'm buying a knife for my collection, they don't make much of a difference at all.
Here's the clincher though..... I don't collect knives. I only buy knives I intend to use in the field. I can say with almost no shadow of a doubt, that you will never see me sell a knife new in box, or mint condition. Why? I don't own any. I buy knives for the field, and I'd rather save some bucks on the mirror polished finish since I'm going to scuff it to hell the first time I take it outside anyway. You can keep your antique mammoth ivory handles because I'd probably break them within a week.
I like DavidZ's answer above me. Make both. Make user grade for the users, and showroom grade for the collectors. The task of the maker is simply to know his market, and use that to determine the split of user/collector grade knives to produce.
Let me give you two figures:
Ranger RD9 - $100
Custom made high polished damascus ivory handled bowie knife - $1000
If I'm buying a tool for the field, those figures make a HUGE difference.
If I'm buying a knife for my collection, they don't make much of a difference at all.
Here's the clincher though..... I don't collect knives. I only buy knives I intend to use in the field. I can say with almost no shadow of a doubt, that you will never see me sell a knife new in box, or mint condition. Why? I don't own any. I buy knives for the field, and I'd rather save some bucks on the mirror polished finish since I'm going to scuff it to hell the first time I take it outside anyway. You can keep your antique mammoth ivory handles because I'd probably break them within a week.
I like DavidZ's answer above me. Make both. Make user grade for the users, and showroom grade for the collectors. The task of the maker is simply to know his market, and use that to determine the split of user/collector grade knives to produce.
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:thumbup: Good awnser
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I am more of a knife as tools type of person than knives as art. I have a few high dollar knives that I haven't used in the field, but I commissioned them as users and would not hesitate to use them. The majority of my knives, though, see a lot of use and I appreciate a good value on a good user.
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I prefer a user.
The one thing that really irritates me is getting a custom knife that has almost no edge to speak of. I consider a sharp edge to be the one thing a knife maker should get right.
What is the point of having a mirror polished blade that can't cut paper?
The one thing that really irritates me is getting a custom knife that has almost no edge to speak of. I consider a sharp edge to be the one thing a knife maker should get right.
What is the point of having a mirror polished blade that can't cut paper?