CPM-M4 vs CTS-20CP/CPM-S90V

I prefer CPM-M4 to S90V/20CP for the edges I like to apply. I find the 20CP Para 2 I have microchips too much for the edge angles and finish I use. The Gayle Bradley has done much better in this regard, plus a CPM-M4 custom I have slightly underhardened for a toughness boost. A steel with both higher wear resistance and higher toughness compared to CPM-M4, and at a similar working hardness, is just hard to come by. It and 3V are really up there for me.

I also have a Mueller in S90V, but the edge grind is thick and the hardness is a couple points lower than the target for the Para 2. CPM-M4 is tougher than the S90V at 6 points higher hardness, and I like the way it sharpens up. When I want a higher level of wear resistance, I jump right past S90V and use S125V. I am now getting all the 3%+ carbon steels, so 2.3% has kinda fallen off my radar.

I'll try M390 when it's offered in a knife I like a little better, funny how it is so popular and 20CV didn't take off.
 
knifenut1013 said:
In the real world M4 is a great steel regardless of what 10 may be better or newer. Naming 10 knives with better steels than CPM-M4 is going to be the real challenge.

Most people don't prefer high wear steels because of how the edge breaks down in use. M4 holds a sharp edge longer and gets crazy sharp with little effort and that's what people like.
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That it does. It almost seems to want to be sharp. I can see people in those situations loving it, because there is no denying that it dulls differently than most other high V steels.
 
CrimsonTideShooter said:
That it does. It almost seems to want to be sharp. I can see people in those situations loving it, because there is no denying that it dulls differently than most other high V steels.
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M4 isn't a high V steel with only 4% Vanadium (Same as S30V), it does have 5.5% Tungsten and 5.25% Molybdenum though so it's a high alloy steel.

Carbon 1.4%
Chromium 4.0%
Molybdenum 5.25%
Vanadium 4.0%
Tungsten 5.5%
 
Ankerson said:
M4 isn't a high V steel with only 4% Vanadium (Same as S30V), it does have 5.5% Tungsten and 5.25% Molybdenum though so it's a high alloy steel.

Carbon 1.4%
Chromium 4.0%
Molybdenum 5.25%
Vanadium 4.0%
Tungsten 5.5%
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Ah ok, thanks for the education. It was more of an issue with my nomenclature. I have been calling pretty much any steel with a few % vanadium a high V steel, I need to quit doing that. Haha.
 
it is a high V steel, but it's like saying a steel with more than 0.5% carbon is high carbon. As an industry term, everyone other than a knife nut accepts it. The high alloy designation is a little muddy, by one definition the V content alone makes it high alloy, but the other end is still just 8% weight being other than iron and carbon, so most steels we discuss are high alloy and high carbon.
 
knifenut1013 said:
In the real world M4 is a great steel regardless of what 10 may be better or newer. Naming 10 knives with better steels than CPM-M4 is going to be the real challenge.

Most people don't prefer high wear steels because of how the edge breaks down in use. M4 holds a sharp edge longer and gets crazy sharp with little effort and that's what people like.
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I concur. My Gayle Bradley in M4 steel holds a fantastic edge. In my homemade cardboard cutting tests it has out performed any other steel that I have tested it against which include Buck's 420hc, 154cm, 440c, S30v, CPM154, Case's CV, D2, ZDP189, CTS-BD30P, and M390. All the knives I tested would cleanly shave arm hair before I started cutting the cardboard. The M4 would still shave arm hair more cleanly than any of the others after cutting the same amount of cardboard. Some would not shave at all and some would still shave but barely. I could detect only a very minor loss of sharpness on the M4 blade. It still shaved cleanly.
 
Spyderco Plain Edge M390 Blue Paramilitary 2 Bento Box Shop Exclusive should be a paypal button to preorder.. not sure if links are allowed if they arent im sorry
 
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We aren't supposed to do 'deal spotting', but since this is a dealer exclusive, and therefore is available at only one seller for only one price, I don't know how it could be construed as a 'deal'. There is no way to undercut a BF dealer account for this knife, cause none of them are going to sell it.
 
hardheart said:
We aren't supposed to do 'deal spotting', but since this is a dealer exclusive, and therefore is available at only one seller for only one price, I don't know how it could be construed as a 'deal'. There is no way to undercut a BF dealer account for this knife, cause none of them are going to sell it.
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Logical but check the last post in this thread. (?)
 
Vanadis 23 is supposed to be quite similar elementally, but I know of only one knifemaker that is using it at the moment!
robino said:
so that basically makes the M4 the best of both worlds, right?
it's the most balanced steel it seems, plenty tough and lots of edge retention, up there with the best.

Does anyone make a steel that is comparable to the CPM-M4?

The same way CTS-20CP is similar with S90V, is there another steel that copies the same values as M4?
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Ankerson said:
I think people get carried away with M4 due to Blade Sports, but M4 isn't the only blade steel that is used in Blade Sports
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But CPM-M4 is the only steel that wins Blade Sports. I mean seriously, Blade Magazine tries to downplay it, but *every* knife in the top 10 for the last several years is CPM-M4.
 
lazlo said:
But CPM-M4 is the only steel that wins Blade Sports. I mean seriously, Blade Magazine tries to downplay it, but *every* knife in the top 10 for the last several years is CPM-M4.
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It wouldn't matter what steel those guys used, the top guys are that good.
 
lazlo said:
But CPM-M4 is the only steel that wins Blade Sports. I mean seriously, Blade Magazine tries to downplay it, but *every* knife in the top 10 for the last several years is CPM-M4.
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That's mostly because of Warren Osbourne, Gayle Bradley and Scott Devanna doing their testing at Warren's house. Those three worked there butts off to refine the requirements, even edge geometry a thou as a time.

Hey Jim, Have you ever played with Sleipner by Bohler-Uddeholm? the Italians are trying to get me to make a knife with it. We're waiting on a test piece now. They claim very high performance on rope.

sal
 
Sal Glesser said:
That's mostly because of Warren Osbourne, Gayle Bradley and Scott Devanna doing their testing at Warren's house. Those three worked there butts off to refine the requirements, even edge geometry a thou as a time.

Hey Jim, Have you ever played with Sleipner by Bohler-Uddeholm? the Italians are trying to get me to make a knife with it. We're waiting on a test piece now. They claim very high performance on rope.

sal
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Hi Sal,

Haven't seen that one yet. :confused:

Let me know what you think when you get the test piece. :)


Jim
 
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