Kitchen Knives of choice...

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Or explain how Calphalon's VG-1, which has an inferior heat-treat compared to the same steel in $20 neck knives from Cold Steel, is "better" than the VG-10 and SG-2 used by Shun.
 
Ok, I have to show some ignorance here. Is Shun a brand, a line of a brand, or a style of knife?
 
sodak said:
Ok, I have to show some ignorance here. Is Shun a brand, a line of a brand, or a style of knife?
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It's kind of a complicated answer. IIRC Shun was a Japanese kitchen cutler which was bought up by KAI, and is now a subsidiary company.

Shun has several lines within it's range of products, but usually when one says "Shun" in reference to a knife it generally refers to their Shun Classic line rather than the company as a whole.
 
omegabull said:
Personally i hate shun knives. They are fairly uncomfortable and their vg10 steel is mediocre. I greatly dislike that if held in the classic chef position (slightly above the handle holding the spine for control) the flared end of the tang that mets the handle cuts into your fingers.

That's interesting- I read an interview with Bob where he said (tactfully) that he'd asked Shun to work on that further to make it more hand friendly and that their response was that in order to meet the price point they were not willing to add an extra step to the manufacturing process. You could tell he was pretty disappointed.
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I find VG-10 to be a very good choice in the kitchen. It takes a wonderfully sharp edge, hold it for a reasonable amount of time, support a very thin edge adequately, and is very stainless. And it's relatively easy to sharpen. Unless you got a bum heat treat or just had a bad edge, I don't see how VG-10 could be "mediocre."

As for the comfort, I don't find that to be an issue in our house. But ergonomics and comfort are too subjective for a good comparison.
 
moonblades said:
Mr. Garsson,
Is there something about the design of the Kramer, beyond steel alloy/heat treating, that makes them particularly desirable? I would guess edge geometry is tops and ergonomics is a close second. Your input is appreciated.
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It is very hard to find ANY kitchen knife that really works for everyon's needs/wants.... realize that is saying a lot and could be contentious, but the more time you spend with them, the more you find things that you don't like.

I like EVERYTHING about the Kramer Chef's knife, it is attractive which pleases the eye, it is stainless steel, heat treated hard, and ground thin, all of which pleases me, and the feel would be a close second as you said,,,in order, materials/grind, ergonomics and looks.

This is a knife, which even though Bob was not completely happy with, shows a commitment from the maker to attempt to make something CLEARLY NOT geared towards the lowest common denominator, due to price, grind and design, it is one of a thinking cook's/chef's tool of choice.

dsmegst said:
I find VG-10 to be a very good choice in the kitchen. It takes a wonderfully sharp edge, hold it for a reasonable amount of time, support a very thin edge adequately, and is very stainless. And it's relatively easy to sharpen. Unless you got a bum heat treat or just had a bad edge, I don't see how VG-10 could be "mediocre.".
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My experience with Spyderco, Shun, and Santa Fe Stoneworks clad damascus is that VG-10 pits/rusts more readily than I like, and can be "chippy" depending upon heat treat. The Shun SG2 heat tread seems to be optimized for solid performance without the VG10 drawbacks. That said, I would not refer(frequently) to VG-10 as mediocre. I find ZDP to be VERY mediocre in the kitchen being very pit prone, and very chippy, preferring a good carbon steel instead.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
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We have only one Shun. It is decent, but we found it worth the money to spend a little more on the stamped, laminated VG10 Hattoris. They are what we use almost all the time. Way better. The only thing I will say is that they are a little brittle, and hitting a bone or something can make a notch or break a tip, while the Shun can actually be bent and straightened.
 
My wife uses 4 and 6 inch knives for most of her work. She has a nice set of Henckle knives our son gave her. I agree that they do not hold an edge and are difficult to sharpen.
I am thinking of getting her a 4" Mora to try. I don't see the Mora mentioned for kitchen knives but why not?
Jerry
 
Mora 731 carbon blade hunting knife. I am not talking about a professional chef, but a normal housewife who cuts up chickens, vegetables, etc. They have a great reputation as to edge holding ability.
Thanks,
Jerry
 
I don't like Moras for kitchen duty, as their thick primary grind tends to wedge and "break" hard veggies apart rather than slicing all the way through. For kitchen knives, I really like the full flat grind, much more cutting rather than wedging.
 
Thanks, sodak. Make sense, but since I do not cook I was not aware of the fine points of kitchen knives. I have previously posted that our son gave my wife a nice set of Henckels. However, I do not think they hold an edge well. Of course my wife does not attempt to preserve an edge, but just to get whatever she is working on cut up and so puts pressure on the cutting boards.

I was thinking of something I did not have to sharpen so often, but not in the market for a single knife that costs over $100.

Regards,
Jerry
 
jerm03 said:
Of course my wife does not attempt to preserve an edge, but just to get whatever she is working on cut up and so puts pressure on the cutting boards.

I was thinking of something I did not have to sharpen so often, but not in the market for a single knife that costs over $100.

Regards,
Jerry
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Maybe try Cutco:

FOREVER PERFORMANCE GUARANTEE

If at any time you are not completely satisfied with the performance of your CUTCO product, we will correct the problem or replace the product.
Simply send the product with an explanatory note to the address below.

FOREVER SHARPNESS GUARANTEE

CUTCO knives with the Double-D® edge will remain sharp for many years, but after extended use they may need sharpening.
For sharpening of Double-D® or straight-edged knives, send them along with a return shipping and handling fee of $6.00 (1-3 items) or $9.00 (4 or more items) to the CUTCO address below.

FOREVER REPLACEMENT SERVICE AGREEMENT FOR MISUSE OR ABUSE

Should you damage your CUTCO through misuse or abuse, we will replace the item for one half of the current retail price plus shipping/handling and tax.
Send the product with an explanatory note to the CUTCO address below.

Not a bad product by any stretch of the imagination, US made, very reasonably priced.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
jerm03 said:
Thanks, sodak. Make sense, but since I do not cook I was not aware of the fine points of kitchen knives. I have previously posted that our son gave my wife a nice set of Henckels. However, I do not think they hold an edge well. Of course my wife does not attempt to preserve an edge, but just to get whatever she is working on cut up and so puts pressure on the cutting boards.

I was thinking of something I did not have to sharpen so often, but not in the market for a single knife that costs over $100.

Regards,
Jerry
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Even though I think they are not ideal, I do use them in the kitchen, simply because I like the stainless steel, they are easy to sharpen, and work well enough. My family is likewise VERY rough on knives in the kitchen, and for us, it's definitely good enough. If it gets messed up, I'm not out much money. I should have said that in my initial post, sorry.

I also have Cutco's and they are indeed pretty good.
 
Thanks again, Gentlemen,
I have learned some useful things from your posts. I had forgotten about Cutco.

Regards,
Jerry
 
I keep going back to my Mac Knives.

I have bought others and used them side by side with my Macs and they don't hold as good an edge...they are comfortable, reasonably light. They don't have the hot spots I have found in other knives...

I don't know what Mac Knives does, but they are doing it right IMO.
 
Remember that not all Henckels are created equal. The Twin Select knives are their premier line, and have the best performance of their series.

Also, what's necessary in a home kitchen is very different from what is needed in a restaurant.

I personally use Cutco for my serrated blades, both for the guarantee, which is better than any other guarantee on the market, and because they cut smoother, better, and longer than any other serrated blade that I've ever used.

Shun/Global is probably my favorite for straight edge for production knives. Can't get much better than folded steel for your straight edges.

Some features to consider when cooking:

Handle material: Wood is generally less sanitary than something less porous (another reason why I like my Cutco, although the handle design is better for home cooking than for the speed you'd need in a restaurant or line kitchen). What kind of pins and how many, and whether they've been machined flush with the handle. Copper pins are generally not as good, or other reactive materials. Is it dishwasher safe, or does it have to be handwashed? That's something that's nice, and very very few kitchen knives are dishwasher safe.

Blade material: I'm not sure this matters as much. I personally think stainless is better than high carbon, because maintenance of the blade to prevent rust tends to be unsanitary, but as we've seen, there's lots of different opinions. Higher carbon blades tend to stay sharp longer and are easier to sharpen, but a good stainless steel with a good heat treat can do a comparable job, and is much easier to deal with. I just wish Cutco would use 154CM or S30V or even 440C. The 440A makes me a little skittish.

Handle design: How comfortable is it to use in a variety of different positions? Is it comfortable to use for a long period of time? How about the bolsters? Are there small cracks for food particles, etc, to get stuck in, so you have rotting food in your handle?

The other things that I tend to find important are generally specific to the type of knife.

Paring knives--I prefer a longer handle, because those little short handles end up digging into my palm uncomfortably quite often.

Chef's knives--the blade has to be wide enough that I don't bang my knuckles on the cutting board. That's one thing I really hate about some of the Shun knives. It's gotta have a nice curve so I can get a nice rocking motion for my cuts.

Serrated blade--does it rip and tear, or does it cut clean? That's the one thing about Cutco that is better than any other company, aside from the guarantee. Hype aside, I've never found another serrated blade, be it Spyderco, Benchmade, or Shun, that can cut as cleanly or stay sharp as long. How long is the cutting edge?
 
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