Kitchen Knives of choice...

[type00rev]

Personally i hate shun knives. They are fairly uncomfortable and their vg10 steel is mediocre. I greatly dislike that if held in the classic chef position (slightly above the handle holding the spine for control) the flared end of the tang that mets the handle cuts into your fingers. They are only collector pieces in my opinion not true to form chef knives. For a beautiful but functional damascus chef knife i would go with the calphalon samurai series. These are under a hundred dollars and outperform shun's knives in my experience (countless meals prepared with the 8 inch chef and 4inch utility). The vg1 steel on these is higher carbon, which is more preferable for use in cooking, even though rust may come off as problem.

If I'm not mistaken, Kai uses the same VG-10 in the DM series Shun's that Al Mar uses in their Seki-made knives. I think it's top notch......never had a problem out of either.

 

[misslins]

Strong feeling to have towards a brand of kitchen knives. I have this: Ceramic Blade Chefs Knife Set KK5116 (GLB).
- Second hardest material next to diamond
- Guaranteed sharp and no nutrition loss for the foods
- No rusting
- Easy to clean
- Ultra sharp and no need to sharpen
- Anti-slip handle for a better grip
- "Finger guard" design for better protection
- Great for cutting vegetables, fruit and boneless meat etc

 

[Thomas W]

Here you go Gator.

Product Line: Shun Hiro

Description: High-grade Eastern-style kitchen knives;

Composition of blade: SG2 Japanese steel cutting core, hardened to 64 on the Rockwell Hardness Scale and clad with 32 layers of nickel/stainless Pattern Damascus steel on each side for a total of 65 layers. Tsuchime hammered finish.

Bevel: Double-beveled

Cutting Angle: 16° per side (comprehensive angle 32°)

Composition of handle: Handle is made of dark charcoal PakkaWood® with deep crimson striations and inlaid Samurai family crest; nickel silver bolster and embossed endcap.

 

[crimsonfalcon07]

440A is a bad steel.

There are certainly better steels out there. But to just say that it's a bad steel without regards to performance is, in my opinion, a mistake. Whatever they do, the knives at least do perform. Edge retention is really quite surprisingly good, especially when in comparison to say, a Henckels Twin Select. So they're clearly doing something right, which hardly reeks of being a "cheap, poorly made knife." As for it being a "bad steel," PROVE it. Yea, it's not popular. But does that mean that someone can't make a good knife out of it? Burden of proof rests on YOU, bud.

Cutco knives are bad, and poorly and cheaply made.

Tolerances on ALL of the sets I've seen have been VERY good. There's no edges sticking up on the rivets like on cheaper knives, grinds are usually quite consistent, quality is generally good. There's no gaps between handle and blade, etc. You sound like a non-Cutco owner with a mysterious bone to pick with the company. There are lots of complaints about Cutco, but they usually involve the handle design, or perhaps the 440A, or various people complaining about their business practices. The only people who claim that they're not well made are people who haven't really tried the knives out, and have some other beef to pick with the company. Frankly, already you're sounding like you're starting from a position of well-entrenched ignorance.

Their guarantee is pretty worthless as well. I'm skeptical of the quality of sharpening Cutco offers, I am pretty sure that they are just run through sharpening machines, especially since I don't think any of the reps are going to bring over industrial equipment to your hose, nor are they trained to sharpen by hand.

For someone who is so downright opinionated, especially about "giving out wrong information," it would behoove you to get yours right. My grandmother replaced her set, which she had gotten from her mother. She had it for about 40 years. They came to her house, boxed it up for her, and sent it out. She had a brand new set in a week and a half, without paying a cent. I replaced my 9" carver 3 months ago, also for free. And I know for a fact that the reps are trained to sharpen by hand. Not every rep will get it factory sharp, but in general they do a good job, and they sharpen it AT your house, they don't just run it through a machine. Wow, you sure know a lot about this company you're bashing. /sarcasm.

The replacement at half price is just as silly.

Not that it gets used that often, because generally this only covers replacement for items that you broke out of personal negligence. If they break through regular wear and tear, replacement is free. I think it speaks very highly of the warranty that they'll offer to replace them for half cost, even if you do something stupid like chop down a tree with your vegetable knife. Any other knife company, that would VOID the warranty entirely, and you'd be responsible for full-price. Again, it's obvious you have a LOT of knowledge of the company.

I have some made in China ones that cost $10 that I would take over Cutco.

Probably because you don't actually own any Cutco. You claim to be all knowledgeable about knives, but you're still using crappy China blades that are made with steel that's probably even WORSE than 440A? Does your hypocrisy know no bounds?

Yes you can, and the implication that folding steel somehow makes knives better is idiotic.

You really are out to be unpleasant, aren't you? If you actually use an appropriate process to make the steel, a good Japanese folded steel blade will retain its edge much better than many other types of steel, because wear will actually sharpen the knife.

Number of pins does not mean anything...

I see I need to elaborate, because you very much missed the point.

1. Speed. This is not a complaint of mine, but it IS a point raised by several professional chefs who have tried Cutco. Speed matters in a line kitchen, although from your comments, I'd guess that you've probably never worked in one. A common complaint about Cutco is that their handles are designed for a home kitchen, and aren't comfortable for speed cooking, thus making them unsuitable for professional chefs. You don't like it, take it up with one of them. I'm merely stating facts.

2. Dishwasher safe. It's not about the knife getting dinged, etc. It's that handles made out of wood are porous, and the dishwasher fluid and particles of food will get into the handle and other cracks and render them less sanitary. That's why wood handles are outlawed in line kitchens in many states, in fact. Learn something new every day.

For someone who "disagrees with people because they're wrong, and teach other people wrong things," perhaps you should make an attempt to actually get your own information right, before you go off on someone. I do actually own a Shun chef's knife. It is NOT as tall as many other Chefs knives. It's at least 1" shorter in width than the Cutco and Henckels model of the same length, for instance. So, I end up banging my knuckles on the cutting board with it. And that's readily apparent from even a casual inspection of an internet picture. Look up the specs on Shun Classic Chef's knives. Maybe the newer ones are better, but that doesn't change the truth of my statement.

 

[Thomas W]

The reserves sound an awful lot like the Kramers they're making now, minus the kramer design.

The Reserves overall designs are far removed from the Kramer's. The steel pattern/material are the same, as is the the handle material.

 

[C-9]

Basically your entire criticism consists of taking lines out of context. You should feel bad, although I know you won't.

There are certainly better steels out there. But to just say that it's a bad steel without regards to performance is, in my opinion, a mistake.

Cutco knives don't perform, not spectacularly anyways. 440A knives are handicapped from the beginning, it takes an excellent heat treat to overcome knives with better steels but poor heat treats. The fact that it lacks the potential of other steels makes it a bad choice. If you can have a 440A knife with a good heat treat, why is it any better than a 440C knife with a good heat treat?

Whatever they do, the knives at least do perform.

No they don't.

Edge retention is really quite surprisingly good, especially when in comparison to say, a Henckels Twin Select.

You say that like Henckels Twin knives are something to be amazed about. As far as I'm concerned, they're mediocre at best.

So they're clearly doing something right, which hardly reeks of being a "cheap, poorly made knife."

No they aren't, besides marketing, which is profitable, but morally and ethically wrong.

As for it being a "bad steel," PROVE it. Yea, it's not popular. But does that mean that someone can't make a good knife out of it? Burden of proof rests on YOU, bud.

I said it originally. I will add this, I think your standards are low, and just because I could make a knife that cuts decently out of 1060/1050 steel, railroad spikes, or meteors doesn't make any of those a good steel. For the price you pay, you should have a real performer on your hands, and Cutco is not in the same league as similarly priced knives or knives a fraction of its cost.

Now you can cut and snip my post, but I posted exactly why I think 440A is a bad steel in my original post. If you don't think 440A steel is a bad steel, then your standards are simply lower than mine. Its a moot point to argue what a bad steel is with you unless you have a logical working definition of bad steel. I can't prove that something is bad to you if you have no definition of what bad means. In other words, you could call it a difference of opinion.

Tolerances on ALL of the sets I've seen have been VERY good.

Tolerances mean nothing if a knife is poorly designed in the first place. Good tolerances on a bad knife mean it is precisely a bad knife.

There's no edges sticking up on the rivets like on cheaper knives, grinds are usually quite consistent, quality is generally good. There's no gaps between handle and blade, etc.

I have a $10 Henckels that has the exact same features. Amazing.

You sound like a non-Cutco owner with a mysterious bone to pick with the company. There are lots of complaints about Cutco, but they usually involve the handle design, or perhaps the 440A, or various people complaining about their business practices. The only people who claim that they're not well made are people who haven't really tried the knives out, and have some other beef to pick with the company. Frankly, already you're sounding like you're starting from a position of well-entrenched ignorance.

First of all, I do think I covered most of those other issues. Second of all, in case you didn't know, Cutco reps do demos, and you can try before you buy, and I think the fact that I have no Cutco knives is a testament to the fact that I tried Cutco knives, and I didn't buy Cutco knives.

They're also poorly made because the design is poor. Those sorts of grinds don't belong on kitchen knives, and any knife made to those designs is poorly made.

For someone who is so downright opinionated, especially about "giving out wrong information," it would behoove you to get yours right. My grandmother replaced her set, which she had gotten from her mother. She had it for about 40 years. They came to her house, boxed it up for her, and sent it out. She had a brand new set in a week and a half, without paying a cent. I replaced my 9" carver 3 months ago, also for free.

Again, you can cut and snip posts to take things out of context all you want, but I already addressed this issue. I said "And replacement is no big deal. With the quality of the knife, and the price you pay for them, you should really be getting 5 or more for the price you pay." The costs of replacements, (averaged out) is already incorporated into the upfront price you pay. Its true, you might get the same knife 6 times over and come out ahead, but on average it doesn't work that way. Stop trying to make straw man arguments where there aren't any.

Not that it gets used that often, because generally this only covers replacement for items that you broke out of personal negligence. If they break through regular wear and tear, replacement is free. I think it speaks very highly of the warranty that they'll offer to replace them for half cost, even if you do something stupid like chop down a tree with your vegetable knife. Any other knife company, that would VOID the warranty entirely, and you'd be responsible for full-price. Again, it's obvious you have a LOT of knowledge of the company.

I not once mentioned the frequency of this kind of replacement. I only made comment on how the service was silly. You should stop putting words in people's mouths if you want to make a sound argument. Few other cutlery companies share the same marketing strategy. It was explained that this form of replacement was not a reflection of their merit as a company so much as a reflection of how their sales work.

Probably because you don't actually own any Cutco. You claim to be all knowledgeable about knives, but you're still using crappy China blades that are made with steel that's probably even WORSE than 440A? Does your hypocrisy know no bounds?

You're right, I don't own any Cutco, as mentioned before, you can try before you buy, and why would I buy if I tried them? I have exactly one Henckels International made-in-China knife that I use as a beater knife. Its also far less expensive than a Cutco, or replacing or repairing any of my good knives when someone decides that they should touch my knives. So yes, I have a China knife, but again, you've taken a line and put it in a false context to make some sort of argument. I don't own exclusively Chinese made crap, I own one Chinese made knife, and that does not make me a hypocrite.

You really are out to be unpleasant, aren't you? If you actually use an appropriate process to make the steel, a good Japanese folded steel blade will retain its edge much better than many other types of steel, because wear will actually sharpen the knife.

One, the important part is "If you actually use an appropriate process to make the steel" not the folding, and two, what you said is complete bullshit. Don't ask me to prove it, you made the assertion, and you can not prove it. Layers do not sharpen things, at most they wear at different rates, giving some sort of serrated-esque edge. If my edge has worn down that much, chances are its going to be touched up anyways, and such a process still does not compare to the abrasion resistance of actual wear resistant steels. Folding steel is merely a tradition, and way of altering aesthetics, and a marketing ploy.

Despite that, that has nothing to do with my comment. My comment was in response to a Shun, in which none of the layers even touch the edge besides the core steel.

I see I need to elaborate, because you very much missed the point.

And somehow you've yet again selected a non-relevant quote and put it in another context.

Speed. This is not a complaint of mine, but it IS a point raised by several professional chefs who have tried Cutco. Speed matters in a line kitchen, although from your comments, I'd guess that you've probably never worked in one. A common complaint about Cutco is that their handles are designed for a home kitchen, and aren't comfortable for speed cooking, thus making them unsuitable for professional chefs. You don't like it, take it up with one of them. I'm merely stating facts.

I will make a random jab at you as well. I don't think you have much experience in the kitchen, especially using good kitchen knives. The grips, and motions should be the same with proper technique, simply the speed varies. If Cutcos are less comfortable to use at high speeds with proper technique, they're going to be less comfortable at slow speeds. Things are simply more tolerable at slow speeds, but at high speeds, things start mattering more.

Dishwasher safe. It's not about the knife getting dinged, etc. It's that handles made out of wood are porous, and the dishwasher fluid and particles of food will get into the handle and other cracks and render them less sanitary. That's why wood handles are outlawed in line kitchens in many states, in fact. Learn something new every day.

Again, you've taken one of my arguments out of context. I said that many knives would be considered dishwasher safe if you did not take the condition of the edge as a serious matter. Its true that some knives are not dishwasher safe at all, but that does not mean that there do not exist knives that are dishwasher safe, except for the purposes of preserving the edge. Take Shuns for example, the answer is "technically yes" but they advise you to steer away from dishwahsing blades. You also don't address the fact that you should not be dishwashing blades in the first place, so being able to dishwash it is not particularly useful for high end cutlery.

For someone who "disagrees with people because they're wrong, and teach other people wrong things," perhaps you should make an attempt to actually get your own information right, before you go off on someone.

I do, but you should take your own advice.

I do actually own a Shun chef's knife. It is NOT as tall as many other Chefs knives. It's at least 1" shorter in width than the Cutco and Henckels model of the same length, for instance.

Then you don't own a chef's knife. I will tell you this, I in fact also own a Shun chef's knife, and I have measured it, and I know exactly how wide it is. I also know you're speaking bullshit because the Cutco knives run short on width, and if you don't think so, Cutco has some fantastic, to-scale pictures on their website.

So I call bullshit.

In order from left to right, 9.25" Cutco, Henckels scaled to 9.25", Henckels multiplied to 108% to get 10", and a Shun 10"

Of course, the vertical knives are to the same size.

Basically, all you've done is say a whole lot of "I disagree" and slung a few insults without actually dealing with any of the involved arguments, despite tor cries for such arguments. Your arguments remain logically unconvincing, and I still think you are wrong.

 

[Kohai999]

C-9, you sound way too much like Cleft Stump for me, and even typing the name sticks in my craw.....I've said my bit...and you are DONE.

Sorry fellas, but I have learned over the years that the best way to beat the blowhards is to take away their soapbox.

NO Regards to you, sir.

STeven Garsson