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How To Put an End to the F&F and +% in the exchange.

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craytab said:
Is there a way with the new software to at the top of every sales thread post a warning about using gift?
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It's kind of there now, yet also hidden unless you know to look.

Above every forum, subforum, and thread there is a rotating announcement banner with a Welcome, Styles, and Exchange Rules tab. It would nice if while in the Exchange, the Exchange Rules tab was set to stationary and you have to manually select the others.

I would also suggest making the verbiage in the tab a little more... profound? Forceful? Can't think of the right word for it but it should make you feel you need to read them rather than just something you think you already know what it says so you breeze right past. It feels like a lot of folks currently do that.
 
Visitor messages were easier to turn off. I hate that feature, and always turn it off... except that option isn't available on this site, now. They can, however, be restricted... so only people I am following can leave me profile messages. That means I can't follow anybody, but that's okay (I'm not that into anybody on this site to the point that I want to be notified of everything they do).
 
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There will be many good members that will read this thread, but continue the practice of asking for F&F or adding 3%. They would need to be compelled to change their venue, or it just won't happen. After many years in business I learned that there are many stubborn and systematic people who don't take kindly to any suggestions of change. The other type of member that would resist the ideas put forth here, is someone who thinks that by posting a low price to catch the buyers attention, and then adding in the fees, or forcing F&F, is a smart business practice. It's still wonderful to see how many of us are open to better ways of enhancing the forum sales experience.
 
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Easy fix. Add the fees into your price and say fees included lol. I don't think asking someone to add fees is a problem..... asking to pay f&f is
 
Still plenty of sellers asking for F&F right now on the Exchange.
Adding fees can turn into a problem when sellers ask up to 6% for fees.
I still feel keeping it simple is the best way. List one price.
I buy plenty on the Exchange and only check out sales threads listing the total price.
 
I give the buyers the option.

I see no error with giving options, I'm obviously a very small minority in this thread, but if someone wants to pay less but forgo the protections of PayPal, and the know what benefits they are going to lose...then by all means go ahead.

Sorry folks. If that really ticks off a lot of people, but either way. It's choice on behalf of the buyer. When given a choice, choose.

But I can 100% understand why people are against f/f. I don't necessarily think there is a right or wrong.

I personally love this place, and I have yet to screw anyone over who has paid me in either F/F or G/S.

Socks
 
You know.

That's a great question.
I don't see it as cheating paypal necessarily.
PayPal goods/services provides a service, and I value that service most of the time. Most of the time.

I feel that when a member, who on this forum, like myself share a love and interest in a certain subject like, the love of steel, that I consider that person a "Friend". We share common space, communicate and share with each other. Now, call me Naive, but until that person proves me wrong, I will consider that person a fellow whom I share with.

But, I feel that PayPal provides a service, and that service I'll pay for if I want the protections that it provides. That's what that 3% provides. Which is what I'm 100% cool with.

I look at it as a trust.
A trust that is mutually gained and earned, through feedback and a love of steel. So I'm Naive. But PayPal gives me the option to Not use G/S, and I don't feel like I'm cheating anyone. PayPal or a friend here on BF.
 
this is my opinion alone if you agree to paypals terms of not charging fees or using f&f to bypass the fees when you sign up and then do it anyway it does not speak well of your person or integrity.
 
shortsocks said:
You know.

That's a great question.
I don't see it as cheating paypal necessarily.
PayPal goods/services provides a service, and I value that service most of the time. Most of the time.

I feel that when a member, who on this forum, like myself share a love and interest in a certain subject like, the love of steel, that I consider that person a "Friend". We share common space, communicate and share with each other. Now, call me Naive, but until that person proves me wrong, I will consider that person a fellow whom I share with.

But, I feel that PayPal provides a service, and that service I'll pay for if I want the protections that it provides. That's what that 3% provides. Which is what I'm 100% cool with.

I look at it as a trust.
A trust that is mutually gained and earned, through feedback and a love of steel. So I'm Naive. But PayPal gives me the option to Not use G/S, and I don't feel like I'm cheating anyone. PayPal or a friend here on BF.
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What a load of bull. Your "friend" is not sending you money. You are selling him a knife.

PayPal said:
If you use your PayPal account to receive payments for the sale of goods and services or accept donations, you must not ask your buyer to send you money using the “send money to a friend or family member.”
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shortsocks said:
Thanks buddy.
I appreciate the load of bull and the "Cut and Paste" from PayPal.
Just trying to have a civil discussion.
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I'm giving you the opportunity, buddy, to show what you're made of. Are you the kind of guy who can realize what he's doing is wrong and own up to it or are you the kind of guy who isn't.
 
Sorry buddy. I'm not stepping into that puddle.
I really appreciate the opportunity though.
Feel free to look through my feedback though if you get some time, if you want to see what I'm made of or at least how I've treated people. :)
 
shortsocks said:
You know.

That's a great question.
I don't see it as cheating paypal necessarily.
PayPal goods/services provides a service, and I value that service most of the time. Most of the time.

I feel that when a member, who on this forum, like myself share a love and interest in a certain subject like, the love of steel, that I consider that person a "Friend". We share common space, communicate and share with each other. Now, call me Naive, but until that person proves me wrong, I will consider that person a fellow whom I share with.

But, I feel that PayPal provides a service, and that service I'll pay for if I want the protections that it provides. That's what that 3% provides. Which is what I'm 100% cool with.

I look at it as a trust.
A trust that is mutually gained and earned, through feedback and a love of steel. So I'm Naive. But PayPal gives me the option to Not use G/S, and I don't feel like I'm cheating anyone. PayPal or a friend here on BF.
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Of course it's cheating Paypal. You're allowing someone to send funds for a transaction via a secure service, the terms of which exclude transactions. If you want the service, pay the fee. If you don't want the service, use a money order, cashier's check, accept a personal check, or some other non-Paypal form of payment. If you don't agree with Paypal's terms of service, don't use the service.


My take on this whole issue is simple: It should be a rule. There are numerous rules the moderators already enforce including "family friendly" language. People report posts that violate the rules. Very shortly people would follow the new rule. The reason it's not a rule is most likely it would upset sellers and decrease seller memberships. However, look at the GB&U forum to see all the people who get scammed when they use Paypal GIFT instead of GOODS & SERVICES. That creates a lot of work for the mods.

I've made one purchase from a seller who asked for +% because the price was far lower than any I'd ever seen for that particular knife and even with the fee it was still far lower, so in the end I didn't care. But that was still a G&S transaction. Using Paypal GIFT for anything other than a GIFT is just asking for trouble. My standard practice is to move on if the seller asks for +% or offers "F&F". I like the idea of telling the seller he lost a sale. I may start doing that.
 
Or no posts in GBU if you Paid via F+F and the transaction went bad.

I wouldn't be here if there was a For Sale Form with restrictions as mentioned earlier.
 
I prefer to see an all inclusive price as the buyer can always PM an offer to the seller. In general, I am in line with shortsocks shortsocks whereby unless the marketplace rules are modified to state otherwise, the seller has the prerogative to call out an F&F price.
 
shortsocks said:
You know.

That's a great question.
I don't see it as cheating paypal necessarily.
PayPal goods/services provides a service, and I value that service most of the time. Most of the time.

I feel that when a member, who on this forum, like myself share a love and interest in a certain subject like, the love of steel, that I consider that person a "Friend". We share common space, communicate and share with each other. Now, call me Naive, but until that person proves me wrong, I will consider that person a fellow whom I share with.

But, I feel that PayPal provides a service, and that service I'll pay for if I want the protections that it provides. That's what that 3% provides. Which is what I'm 100% cool with.

I look at it as a trust.
A trust that is mutually gained and earned, through feedback and a love of steel. So I'm Naive. But PayPal gives me the option to Not use G/S, and I don't feel like I'm cheating anyone. PayPal or a friend here on BF.
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You are cheating paypal out of the fees you agreed to pay them when conducting a transaction. Justify it however you want but it is really simple. You are okay with breaking your word. Other members should take note.

If a buyer pays f&f and the package doesn't get to them do you still refund their money? Answer this please.
 
Here's a couple of possible outcomes if folks continue to abuse PayPal Friends & Family option:

a. PayPal eliminates their Friends & Family option altogether because of abject abuse of unscrupulous members.

-or-

b. PayPal increases their fees on the Goods & Services end to defray the parasitic behavior of the freeloaders.

Having a rudimentary knowledge of economics, I'd say PayPal is well aware of what's going on and have already implemented plan "b" and the honest customers are currently picking up the tab on the members who are abusing the system.

So, in essence, if everyone played by the rules, Goods & Services fees could theoretically be at a 1.25% level rather than the current approx. 3.6% :(-- who knows? o_O

Having survived 50+ years on this Earth, all of it in the USA, I do KNOW THIS FOR SURE...there's no such thing as a free lunch...someone's already paying for this you bet yer arse-- see if you can figure out who it is...;)
 
PeteyTwoPointOne said:
a. PayPal eliminates their Friends & Family option altogether because of abject abuse of unscrupulous members.
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Honestly, if I was running the show at Paypal that's exactly what I would do. If people want to abuse the service then they can pay for it like everybody else. No more Mister Nice Guy.
 
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