Questions for the maker

SPownson said:
Hey, Chris.
Do you have any idea when we might be seeing some full-on OK/T kitchen knives?
I remember seeing a drawing or two of a new design(s) a while ago. Have you gone anywhere else with that?
Click to expand...

Funny you ask, you should stay tuned for the work in progress preview I am working on a lot of cool stuff for you to digest coming down the pipeline
 
Chris,
I just picked up an amazing second hand W2 trailhand on the exchange -- can you share a little more about your W2 heat treat, characteristics of the steel, and your perspective on it as a steel for a user bc knife (I'm an 01/A2 junkie)?

as an aside, the fieldhand is my new favorite knife -- just trying to learn a bit more about your choice to use w2 on this model!

Thanks
 
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xxwjtxx said:
Chris,
I just picked up an amazing second hand W2 fieldhand on the exchange!
Click to expand...

So that is where that awesome little trailhand went. I knew I should not have hesitate to grab that thing.

By no means speaking for Chris but the W2 were a handful of knives where he was playing around with differential heat treat and producing a Hamon. There are probably less than 5 of them out there. I would assume it is akin to O1in most regards but I'm looking forward to Chris' reply.

Now I'm wanting a OKT with a Hamon!
 
Thanks Danny, great insight! It's a really cool knife; already loving it -- the super high carbon content makes it a dream to sharpen on the strop and is already turning some crazy colors from kitchen use!
 
xxwjtxx said:
Chris,
I just picked up an amazing second hand W2 fieldhand on the exchange -- can you share a little more about your W2 heat treat, characteristics of the steel, and your perspective on it as a steel for a user bc knife (I'm an 01/A2 junkie)?

as an aside, the fieldhand is my new favorite knife -- just trying to learn a bit more about your choice to use w2 on this model!

Thanks
Click to expand...

FeralGentleman said:
So that is where that awesome little trailhand went. I knew I should not have hesitate to grab that thing.

By no means speaking for Chris but the W2 were a handful of knives where he was playing around with differential heat treat and producing a Hamon. There are probably less than 5 of them out there. I would assume it is akin to O1in most regards but I'm looking forward to Chris' reply.

Now I'm wanting a OKT with a Hamon!
Click to expand...

xxwjtxx said:
Thanks Danny, great insight! It's a really cool knife; already loving it -- the super high carbon content makes it a dream to sharpen on the strop and is already turning some crazy colors from kitchen use!
Click to expand...

Hey Will,

Nice score on the beauty. As Danny correctly pointed out, the model name is actually “Trail Hand” rather than “Field Hand.” Whatever the name, it is a damn nice knife.

For your reference, I have attached the link to the 08/18/16 sales thread where it originally sold.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1422177-Osprey-K-T-Sales-Thread-8-18-16

Trail Hand
1/8" (.125") W2 Tapered Tang w/Hamon (Belt Finish)
Black and Jute Micarta
OAL 7 1/4”
Blade 3 1/4”
$260.00 (sold)


*If you look closely you can see the hamon in the spine

Hosted on Fotki


Hosted on Fotki

Hosted on Fotki



Enjoy using that one Will. It is nice to see you finally make the jump to the OK&T forum. Chris’ knives are very addicting once you get going on them.

Phil
 
Ah thanks Phil; still learning all of the OKT models ;)! I appreciate the reference info & history on the knife; super helpful!

:thumbup:
 
xxwjtxx said:
Chris,
I just picked up an amazing second hand W2 Trail hand on the exchange -- can you share a little more about your W2 heat treat, characteristics of the steel, and your perspective on it as a steel for a user bc knife (I'm an 01/A2 junkie)?

as an aside, the Trail Hand is my new favorite knife -- just trying to learn a bit more about your choice to use w2 on this model!

Thanks
Click to expand...

Thank you for your question, and I am excited to dive into the W2 subject at hand,
I will be back in a few days with a detailed response to your question, I would like to collect and organize some notes.
 
Well Chris, I've slept on this and because different manufacturers and makers have different heat treat process and results, I've just got to ask these ...


Of the steels you are offering, which do you feel is best when it comes to:
Ease to sharpen
Edge retention
Corrosion resistance
Least likely to chip
Overall winner winner chicken dinner


Also, would you mind testing and sharing the hardness for your:
A2 (if you have any available)
W2 (if you have any available)
CPM154
S35VN
3V


Thanks,
Jerry
 
xxwjtxx said:
Chris,
I just picked up an amazing second hand W2 Trail Hand on the exchange -- can you share a little more about your W2 heat treat, characteristics of the steel, and your perspective on it as a steel for a user bc knife (I'm an 01/A2 junkie)?

as an aside, the Trail Hand is my new favorite knife -- just trying to learn a bit more about your choice to use w2 on this model!

Thanks
Click to expand...



Apologies, I decided to revisit and re answer this question soon!

I realized half way through my response I want to start over and answer differently
 
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Warrior108 said:
Well Chris, I've slept on this and because different manufacturers and makers have different heat treat process and results, I've just got to ask these ...


Of the steels you are offering, which do you feel is best when it comes to:
Ease to sharpen
Edge retention
Corrosion resistance
Least likely to chip
Overall winner winner chicken dinner


Also, would you mind testing and sharing the hardness for your:
A2 (if you have any available)
W2 (if you have any available)
CPM154
S35VN
3V


Thanks,
Jerry
Click to expand...


I have not made any of my Knives in A2

The only steel I have tested at the moment is CPM154, I was hitting right at 60HRC
I would be glad to test the other ones as I heat treat and can offer more test on the CPM154.

I will have to get back to you on the first part of your question when I can free my hands up.
 
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Hey Chris,
Can your tell us what is going on in this picture / what are you doing with the knife clamped down?

Thanks
Jerry

29513558689915-vi.jpg
 
Warrior108 said:
Hey Chris,
Can your tell us what is going on in this picture / what are you doing with the knife clamped down?

Thanks
Jerry

29513558689915-vi.jpg
Click to expand...

In this picture I am sanding the flats of the the blades to remove the remaining mill scale and to polish out any scratches fro tapering the blade. I take the flats up to 320 grit before hammer texturing. This allows me to get an even look across the flats and imparts the shiney character you see on the flats after texturing.

The clamp helps me hold the blade in place while sanding the flats. Im not sure if you are familiar with polishing metal, but its labor intensive and I produce a lot of friction the blade is almost to hot to hold immediately after I polish the flats,

Since 99% of my blades are tapered I shim the tang with paper so I can clamp the blade evenly while sanding. It isnt the best set-up. But is works for now and I have probably sanded a couple 100 blades on the apparatus.

I neat little by product of this process I didn't intend on, is by my sanding of the flats I actually end up with a slight distal taper to the blade!
 
Osprey Knife & Tool Osprey Knife & Tool Thanks for the explanation and info. It looks like you mount the abrasive (assuming sandpaper) on that handle too. I guess this means the texturing is done after the flats are sanded.

Additional question: Is it difficult to part with a knife you've made? Is it difficult when you first get into it and then becomes easier over time? Releasing them out to the world?
 
xxwjtxx said:
Chris,
I just picked up an amazing second hand W2 trailhand on the exchange -- can you share a little more about your W2 heat treat, characteristics of the steel, and your perspective on it as a steel for a user bc knife (I'm an 01/A2 junkie)?

as an aside, the fieldhand is my new favorite knife -- just trying to learn a bit more about your choice to use w2 on this model!

Thanks
Click to expand...

xxwjtxx xxwjtxx

I dove into this subject a little on another thread, your question has been hanging out in my head for a few months now. I apologize I got busy and forgot to answer sooner.


W2, and 1095 are both excellent simple alloys with a High carbon content, the W2 is in a nutshell composite wise a 1095 with a little bit of chromium and vanadium which helps with the grain structure, increases wear resistance and adds better shock resistance than 1095.
There also a few other alloying elements as well.
O1 and A2 only rate medium toughness and W-2 High Toughness according to metallurgy guidelines. I have found in my experience this holds true if the W-2 is properly heat treated.


Your Hamon is a visual display of the heat treat! Which I think is pretty cool!:)

Here is a chemistry composition of your steel W2 along with 1095 and A2 for comparison .

W2-
Chemistry/Certification
Certification: C- .916 Si- .296 Mn- .215 P- .0050 S- .0020 Cr- .069 Ni- .042 Mo- .008 V- .165 W- .005 Cu- .047 Sn- .0060 Al- .006 Annealed Structure: 98% spherodized carbides

1095-
Chemistry/Certification
Certification: C- .96 Si- .23 Mn-.35 P- .009 S- .003

A2-
C Mn Si Cr Mo V
1.00 0.75 0.30 5.0 1.00 0.25



Both 1095 and W2 are used in a wide variety of applications from small EDC knives to large choppers and swords, I will have to say IMO W2 has an edge over 1095 as far as versatility and workability.

Both are shallow hardening steels unlike CPM154, A2,and O1 steels you are familiar with which are deep hardening steel that harden uniformly more or less throughout the blade, The shallow hardening properties of w2 and 1095 allow for a full hardness to penetrate through from surface to surface on thin cross section but does not in thicker areas allowing for a more flexible and softer core. This characteristic of these two steels allows for a really hard cutting edge hard through and through but as you travel up the blade to the spine this softer core will start to become more prominent in the mass of the steel.

How does this translate into user benefit, well by having a blade that is close to full hardness on the edge or desired hardness and a softer core and spine the blade can withstand more abuse, mainly in areas like batoning, prying and any other areas where a more brittle blade would be subpar and likely fail catastrophically before the 1095 or w2

You can add to and build onto this characteristic by differently hardening, you can achieve different hardness in some deep hardening steels like O1 and A2,
But lacking the shallow hardening nature of the W2 and 1095 it is not the same end product.

By differentially hardening a shallow hardening steel you essentially expand on the already inherent characteristic qualities of the steel by adding a insulating layer to the outside of the blade usually in my case Satinite, which is a refractory clay.
When you apply the clay to the spine of the blade and leaving the cutting edge bare you are allowing the steel to cool at different rates, the bare cutting edge on a W2 or 1095 blade will cool the fastest reaching full hardness when paired with a fast quench oil like parks50. The remaining coated section of the blade cools slower thus producing a hardening line that should follow the clay layout on the blade resulting in what is historically and technically referred to as a Hamon.

The Hamon which is different than a temper line is a visual display of the metallurgical and molecular change that happens to the steel during heat treat. I only consider what I know a basic understanding of these properties. And I lack the knowledge on the technical terminology so I will explain in layman's terms. From my understanding is that when a steel is heated up the lattice structure that binds the the molecules together begin to relax and at a certain point they start to rearrange themselves and the steel goes through a sort of structural change on the molecular level. This is called the critical temp. At this point all the changes are happening fast in these two steels. There is a short window to where the molecules rearrange themselves and start to expand and become too large. So timing is everything you want the steel to soak long enough at critical temp to undergo the molecular change but not so long that the grain grows so large it causes a brittle blade. You can think of it like silt or sand in relation to building a sand castle. You want your grain structure to be like fine silt or sand these bind to one another in a tighter group whereas larger grains will have a harder time binding to one another. These changes happen in all steels and is the process in which hardening is achieved.

What makes W2 and 1095 different is the are hyper eutectoid steels, and the hamon shows the different molecular structures that exist in the steel.

A temper line is different in the sense that the steel does not actually go through the molecular changes that have occurred to give you a Hamon.
A temper line is achieved by drawing the hardness out of the spine or by differently, or edge quenching deep hardening steels. Deep hardening and Non Hyper Eutectoid steels will not undergo the necessary molecular changes to achieve a true hamon and lack the characteristics needed to achieve Hamon therefore I know them a temper lines.


I might come back and reword this a little and add to it...
 
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FeralGentleman said:
So that is where that awesome little trailhand went. I knew I should not have hesitate to grab that thing.

By no means speaking for Chris but the W2 were a handful of knives where he was playing around with differential heat treat and producing a Hamon. There are probably less than 5 of them out there. I would assume it is akin to O1in most regards but I'm looking forward to Chris' reply.

Now I'm wanting a OKT with a Hamon!
Click to expand...

I have some W2 close to ready to heat treat so you should see some soon!
 
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