Should PayPal Gift Option be permitted for sales?

Should the PayPal Gift Option be permitted for sales here at Bladeforums?

  • Yes, continue to allow it.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • No, there should be a rule against it.

    Votes: 1 100.0%
  • Total voters
    1
Esav Benyamin said:
As I understand PayPal's TOS, offering a discount for not using PayPal is the same as asking the buyer to pay the seller's PayPal fees.
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You understand correctly, Esav. But I, for one, don't feel right about adding PayPal fees to the selling price of an item if someone doesn't want to use PayPal to pay for that item. That's simply not fair. And that's why I stand by my recommendation that sellers state what they're willing to sell their items for "net to them" and negotiate the terms of their transactions including payment choices, shipping arrangements, insurance, registered mail, and so forth off line. I can't understand why anyone would object to that. If the terms of sale can't be negotiated successfully, the deal falls through. No harm, no foul.
 
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hhmoore said:
. . . a very large percentage of the sellers are indicating PayPal Preferred or PayPal Only...making it their choice to incur those fees.
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I agree. For sellers who indicate PayPal Preferred or PayPal Only, my argument definitely falls flat. Fortunately, I'm not one of those sellers. As I said before, I'm all about leaving my options and my customers' options open.

Here's the bottom line. I've been here for quite awhile and I've been a party to just about every kind of transaction you can think of as a buyer, a seller and a trader. In all of those transactions, I've never felt like I cheated anyone nor has anyone ever accused me of cheating them. When all is said and done, isn't that the final arbiter in this debate?
 
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Esav Benyamin said:
As I understand PayPal's TOS, offering a discount for not using PayPal is the same as asking the buyer to pay the seller's PayPal fees.

Listen, just post a price TYD (to your door) all-inclusive of money for goods, shipping and handling, insurance, and that's it.

If you guys use PayPal, and the convenience and the speed makes it worth while, don't weasel on the fees. If you use check or money order or even put cash in an envelope (stupid, stupid, stupid) then waiting for the payment to arrive before the goods get sent is the price for avoiding PayPal.

It's nickels and dimes! If the knife is so expensive that the fees add up to real money, well, sure, but you're spending real money already, do it right. I hope you're also insured and using Registered mail, too, on any big ticket items.
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Yeah people, listen to Esav :p
Great advice, as usual :thumbup:
 
bld522 said:
You understand correctly, Esav. But I, for one, don't feel right adding PayPal fees to the selling price of an item if someone doesn't want to use PayPal to pay for that item. That's simply not fair. And that's why I stand by my recommendation that sellers state what they're willing to sell their items for "net to them" and negotiate the terms of the transaction including payment choices, shipping arrangements, insurance, registered mail, and so forth off line. I can't understand why anyone would object to that. If the terms of sale can't be negotiated successfully, the deal falls through. No harm, no foul.[/QUOTe

your right in that you shouldn't have to ask a buyer to use PP. , so your suggesting we only allow the term NTM in the FST and you think TYD be ok? Both . NO mention PP
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JCP1969 said:
your right in that you shouldn't have to ask a buyer to use PP. , so your suggesting we only allow the term NTM in the FST and you think TYD be ok? Both . NO mention PP
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I can't tell you what to do. All I can tell you is that what I've done has worked for me for a very long time with amicable results all around.
 
bld522 said:
I can't tell you what to do. All I can tell you is that what I've done has worked for me for a very long time with amicable results all around.
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You do say you recommend sellers state their NTT and all other discussion occur in private
 
Ban it. Why give scammers an avenue to exploit? Have their been many instances of the reverse problem, where people buy a knife, then reverse the charges via paypal?
 
Personally I like TYD, its a one price transaction. Net to me, I usually walk away unless its on my list of must haves. Too much of a PIA. Additionally, I can't stand it when a seller at the last second asks for gift option after everything is said and done. TYD has nothing to do with PayPal. As a seller, most of us don't want to wait for a check or MO. PayPal = necessary evil. TYD generally means we all agree on the price and nothing is left to chance.
 
JCP1969 said:
You do say you recommend sellers state their NTT and all other discussion occur in private
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True. But that's as far as it goes. For what it's worth, I negotiate each transaction based on its own merits. As a seller, I may make a particular offer to one person but not to another. Conversely, as a buyer, I may accept a particular offer from one person but not from another. It isn't a one-size-fits-all approach but it is founded on a single guiding principle: no transaction is concluded until both parties are satisfied.
 
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I don't understand how TYD implies PayPal... it's just another way of saying total price (item, applicable extras, shipping included)
 
willrise said:
This place is starting to have as many rule as shitcago.
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I kind of resent that. We don't need your opinion on Chicago used to smear BFC. We haven't added any rule on PayPal and as of now, we don't look like we will. What we are trying to do is foster a widely based discussion pro and con, to educate ourselves on each others values and good procedure.
 
There is a rule against it. Paypal's rules.
Every other forum I frequent with a classified section forbids it. The fact that this discussion still goes on here astounds me. If you don't wanna pay the fee, build it into the price or don't use Paypal. Gosh...

This is not 'Nam. There are rules.
 
Right. They're just not BF's rules. And BF has chosen not to enforce anybody's rules but their own. Unless and until they do, this debate will continue unabated.

PS: Just because a rule exists doesn't make it a good rule.
 
Esav Benyamin said:
As I understand PayPal's TOS, offering a discount for not using PayPal is the same as asking the buyer to pay the seller's PayPal fees......
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bld522 said:
You understand correctly, Esav....
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I hate to say it, but show me.

Here is all I can find on the subject in the TOS:

4. Receiving Money.
4.1 Receiving Personal Payments. If you are selling goods or services, you may not ask the buyer to send you a Personal Payment for the purchase. If you do so, PayPal may remove your ability to accept Personal Payments.
4.6 No Surcharges. You agree that you will not impose a surcharge or any other fee for accepting PayPal as a payment method. You may charge a handling fee in connection with the sale of goods or services as long as the handling fee does not operate as a surcharge and is not higher than the handling fee you charge for non-PayPal transactions.

I threw 4.1 in there so people reading this thread for the original question could see just how clearly and unequivocally against PayPal rules it is to ask for a personal, or 'gift' payment.

I'm not a lawyer, but it seems to me sort of a convenient interpretation of 4.6 to conclude that offering a discount for "cash" (which isn't hinted at in the slightest in 4.6) would violate the letter of the rule.
There is no surcharge on the PayPal payment, just a discount for cash or equivalent.

Did I miss something?
 
willrise said:
This place is starting to have as many rule as shitcago.
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You are very much mistaken. There have been no new rules added in quite a long time. If anything the rules have been consolidated to create a better understanding of expectations and requirements.
 
You and Esav are being pretty generous under the circumstances, RD. I wouldn't outright accuse willrise of trolling. His comment could simply be the result of a misunderstanding on his part. But as you point out, he is clearly incorrect re: the number of rules that operate around here.
 
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interesting discussion. I can see that if a seller prefers alternate methods of payment besides paypal then its silly to add fees. That being said I prefer paypal, their services help protect guys like me whether im selling or buying. It doesnt bother me if BF sets Paypal rules because I follow my own.

1. I always set a TYd price including shipping & fees for my goods and my services. It just seems like the right thing to do
2. I will never purchase from a seller that requests gift option
3. I will never purchase from a seller that asks me to pay their fees

Its odd how many threads for sales start with a firm price +fees, a day later there is a price drop....why not start off by incorporating the fees in your price? I know Im not the only one who wont purchase from sellers that ask for their fees to be paid by others.
 
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