165OT Woodsman/UH Prospector ramble

Codger: Thank you very much the wealth of information you have posted about the Schrade 165 on this forum. I recently purchased a good condition Schrade Walden 165 with a wooden handle. Perhaps you can help me to narrow down the age of this example. The tang stamp ("Schrade, Walden, 165") is on the right side. There is no serial number. There is a "slightly convex curved front edge on the lower guard" as you mentioned. My main interest is in the wooden handle, as I have another 165 with the sawcut delrin handle material, and the Old Timer shield. I understand from reading your material that due to the absence of the serial number, and the position of the tang stamp, that this is not one of the earliest examples. However, does the wooden handle material help to pin down the date somewhat? Also, do you have any idea what kind of wood was being used? Thank you for any light you can shed on this!

John T. Jeffery
 
Wood was not a production handle material on the 165. That does not mean that the factory absolutely did not make such a knife on a special order for an executive or a customer. I am not certain exactly when they quit serializing them, but it was definately prior to 1973 when the company name and the tangstamps changed. The vast majority of SW tanged knives are serialized, almost all with tangstamps left. I've only seen one or two serialized with tangstamp right. And judging from the ratio of laft/right stamped SW knives, it seems plausable that the tangstamp position was switched just prior to the name change. There were 15,131 of them shipped in 1972. And about 3,000 in stock at the year end. So, as you can see, the changeover was not like turning off one faucet and turning on another.

I have a wood handled sample 165, and the only way to possibly bracket the date is that it has a stainless hollow ground blade, indicating that it was produced well after regular production had ended in 1991. It was perhaps a piece used with a matching 15OT and 152OT as a "show-and-tell" for prospective SFO buyers like Ducks Unlimited or U.S. Tobacco.

I recently picked up another Walden 165 myself, a really used one, as a base for some sort of custom rehandle. Not just sure what yet though. It hasn't arrived yet, so I don't know if it is serialized or not. If it is, and is in better condition than I expect it to be in, I'll replace the missing shield and keep it as is.


Glad you found some info in my research that helped!


Codger
 
Codger: Pictures of the wooden handled 165 I recently purchased are available at the URL below for the following eBay auction:

Schrade walden 165 Hunting Knife Fixed Blade
Item number: 120039004136

http://cgi.ebay.com/Schrade-walden-...ryZ48820QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I would appreciate any opinion you may have regarding whether this handle appears to be something done at the factory, or otherwise. I realize that pictures have limitations.

Thanks!
 
As best I can tell from the pictures, it is a nice oak rehandle done aftermarket. There were some wood handled knives made in late 2003 for the anniversary, but they were the later stainless hollow ground blades. Look at the size of the rivet heads compared to those used by the factory on mine above, and on the production knives. I can't think of a reason why they would have used outsized rivets. Ask the seller what he knows about the knife's origins.



Codger
 
Codger: Thank you. I will let you know if I find anything out from the seller about the origins of this knife.

In the meantime, unless you can think of any reasons not to, I intend to put a little better edge on it, and to carry it as a working knife for hunting. In my opinion, and I assume you would agree, the aftermarket handle lessens the value of the knife, even though it is a "nice oak handle", as you put it.

By the way, nice job with the pictures. They make the rivet issue very clear.
 
With the possible exception of a few highly ornate special editions, I can not think of any reason not to use a Schrade as it was intended, a tool, a working knife. I still use mine after all these years. They were made by the thousands, and as illustrated by the knife I showed you near the top of these posts, good users are still quite affordable in this age where it isn't uncommon for a new hunting knife to go for $75-$100 or more. I just gave $24.00 for that Walden 165.

I think you will be pleased, as I am with it's heft and handiness as a hunting knife. I also believe you will like the edge that the 1095HC steel will take and hold. Welcome to the "Woodsman Club"!!

Codger :thumbup:
 
Codger: Thank you for this advice. The edge is on, and is shaving sharp. Now it only needs its first "walk in the woods".

By the way, do you know of any sheaths for the 165s that are available. The sheath that came with this Walden was not original.

John T. Jeffery
 
Codger: Here is the response I got back from the seller -

"This knife was in a gun collection I bought about twenty years ago. A very large collection of Colt revolvers. The owner was ninety three years old, and was struct by a car, and passed on. I wish I could ask him many questions. I did not know anything about knives, but received about three hundred knives. You would not beleive the schrade knives he owned. Sold some, more to come to ebay.Im very sorry, if the handles were ever changed. I do take back any items a customer is not satisfied with.Please watch my ebay auctions coming up. I only sell auction only. Thank you for your business."

Of course, after thanking the seller for this response, I let him know that I had no intentions of returning this 165!

John T. "Jack" Jeffery
 
Email me John, and I might be able to help you with a user sheath. Otherwise, I am told the ones on eBay for the 153UH will fit. I've tried mine, and they are a bit tight, especially the keeper strap. They would be more "correct" for the Uncle Henry variant, the 165UH since they have the sharpening stone pocket.

Here is a NIB knife with correct sheath for identity:
http://cgi.ebay.com/SCHRADE-KNIFE-1...9QQihZ005QQcategoryZ88910QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Codger

PS: Here is the user sheath I mentioned. I don't know if the owner's scratched initials can be "foxed" off or not. Member Sheathmaker (Paul Long) might be able to tell us. Otherwise, it is a correct but dried, worn, usable user sheath.


The knife itself is indeed a non-serialized Walden. Missing shield, loose guard, spine whacks, bleached handle with hits, but darn near perfect blade with light patina and good edge grind, no scratching or nicks. Yep, I think a rehandled user. Anyone ever worked with true ebony wood?
 
Codger: Thanks for the tips about a sheath. I have been tracking all of the 165s that come up on eBay. Also, I have another 165 (post Walden), with the correct sheath, so I knew what I wanted for the wooden handled Walden. I would be interested in the user sheath you mention in your post.

John T. "Jack" Jeffery
 
Codger,
I have worked with true ebony. It is a bit tricky. It has a tendency to be brittle & can crack. Be sure the ebony you have is well cured and that all the checking has stopped. Examine the piece you are working with to find all the checks and cracks in it, so you can work around them. I would recommend cutlery rivets & not pins as pressing or peening the pins might split the wood. Be careful when pressing the rivets together that you don't split the wood. It is less likely when using cutlery rivets, but could happen, IMHO. Loveless bolts might be a better choice.

Happy re-handling,
Dale
 
John T. Jeffery said:
... I would be interested in the user sheath you mention in your post.

John T. "Jack" Jeffery
Click to expand...

Then eMail me and we'll hook you up.

Dale, the Gabon ebony scale wood was well seasoned when I bought it several years ago, the grain ends coated, and there are no cracks, checks, or flaws. I seldom see ebony this truely black with no hint of brown, particularly unworked. I'll take it slow when I do get into the project. And I'll get the rivet countersink bit first. I think I want it to finish the burl maple handle anyway. I'd hate to mess up all the work I've done so far by tearing out or crushing the wood around the rivets, or leaving them proud or shy because the heads were not set right.

Codger
 
Codger,
If you are worried about leaving the rivets proud, just counter sink so the rivet sets just below the surface of the wood. Then sand it down flush. You can even sand the rivets some also, though it is harder to get them polished then.

Let me know if you run into any problems.

Dale
 
I recently got this off eBay. HAD to have one once I saw one on here. Really comfy handle and a brute of a blade.

schrade1mh9.jpg


NOW..... how do you get a ...shaving...edge on it? It seems to be a very hard blade. The Sharpmaker just gave up on it. I finally got a decent "toothy" edge on it freehand with a DMT diamond stone.

Is there a secret to the "shaving sharp" edge?

I took the factory angle WAAAAAYY down from where it was to get the decent paper shaving edge that it has now. It almost seems to be a convex edge.
:confused:

I ....really..... like this model.
 
Lavan,
Having worked in the cutlery business for about 12 years I learned to use power equipment (properly) to sharpen knives. I use a 1 X 42 belt sander to sharpen a knife like yours. I will use 400 grit to thin the blade & then finish it with 800 grit. After that I will use a Power Strop to put a polished shaving edge on the knife. Often the Power Strop is all you need to put a shaving edge on a knife, unless you have chipped it on a bone.

You can get the Power Strop from Woodcraft:
http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?familyid=220

Dale
 
The following has worked for me on a wide variety of single edged blades from a Marine Kabar, to small pocket knives:

I have a fairly complete set of Lansky stones. I work it through all four diamond stones from extra coarse to fine, and then polish it with black hard Arkansas, ceramic, and blue sapphire. Whenever I can I use a 20 degree edge, but sometimes have to back off to 25 degrees due to the size of the blade causing the stone to come into contact with the clamp.

The trick is to avoid a "curl" on the edge which is felt as drag on thumb of thumbnail on one side. This signals more steel being ground off of one side than the other. Even strokes on both sides tapering off on the pressure to very light finishing strokes eliminates this, and gives a razor edge.

When I say it get mine "shaving sharp" I mean just that. I am right handed, so my left arm is always having to grow back new "test hairs"! I have two 165s and got such an edge on both of them.
 
Codger_64 said:
Sometime after serial #18,xxx, the tangstamp was moved to blade right and then the serial numbers were discontinued.Codger
Click to expand...

Codger,
After reading this ENTIRE post, and being somewhat confused about radioactive handle materials :D , I may have a piece of updated info for you. I picked up a 165 recently (only my 2nd) as a user, and it immediately became my favotite knife. Sorry, but it is only the boring original Delrin... Nothing fancy like blue or such. :( But, the serial no. is 20220, with Schrade over Walden over 165 still on the left. Now that piece of info should be worth a piece of dayglo orange paper to SOMEone (minus the puncture wounds, of course!). :) . Hopefully you can add that to your information database.

Leftwithsheath.jpg


Rightwithsheath.jpg


close-up.jpg


Lastly, I think this may be the extremely rare Burger King issue as evidenced by the B.K. on the back of the sheath! Okay, seriously, who can direct me to a post or web site that may give some advice on how to remove the initials?

Thanks,
Greg
 
Nothing boring about a nice production Woodsman, Greg! You found a nice one! Thanks for the serial number too. Yours is the third highest recorded so far. The highest is #20969. The lowest seen so far is #00523. I have #00953 and #18865 (among others).

I emailed a link to our forum leather expert, Paul Long. He'll be here before too long to give us his opinion on how to remove such hand embossed lettering.

Michael
 
I have pictures of serial no. 03150, a Walden Uncle Henry (sold on eBay awhile back?), and no. 07169 that I got somewhere. I try to grab some photos as they go by.

John T. Jeffery
"A man without a knife is a man without a life."
 
Hi boys! The first sheath CAN be foxed over the initials if the sheath has enough life left to be worth the effort. Foxing for the uninitiated is an overlay of thinner leather glued down and caught by a removal and restitch of both side seams

This last sheath is more of a problem. I don't know if you could ever get the initials completely out. It depends on how deep the hand embossing is. Any way, using a wash rag with very warm water soak the area until it is really wet, then wait about ten minutes and do it again. When the area is no longer shiny wet use a SMOOTH service implement such as a glass or an old medicine bottle etec. and press very hard on the initals. they should fade quite a bit. Repeat, repeat, repeat, but there may still be a "shadow" after you are tired of this drill. The pressing is a pushing motion, not rolling.

Paul
 
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