Advice on full-size 9mm pistols please

Just my opinion, but, I think it's a terrible idea, to many states that have different training stipulations, and regulations on guns that can be carried.

How so? If a permit is valid, it should be recognized regardless of what state issued it, regardless of what states feel is appropriate. We already know all those different training stipulations don't amount to jack, they're just there to harass people.

Nobody's going to agree and if they do, the people that already have a concealed carry permit are going to have a bunch of different regs and background checks thrown at them.

How so?

Once again, just my opinion, it's a States Rights issue not a federal government issue.
Good for a few, like California, but bad for a lot more, like Indiana, or all the states without any training stipulations.

Owning and carrying a gun is a constitutional right, meaning states don't have business looking into how to restrict the legal right to whatever degree they can get away with. McDonald already determined the right applies to the states, meaning they have little legal choice but to recognize it.

As for topic of thread, if you're not going to carry it or conceal it, go with what you want, otherwise you have to think about availability of holsters and magazines and the like.

And the like sometimes involves what a friend or relative is carrying. Parts commonality and magazine compatibility shouldn't be overlooked. It's one reason police precincts and the military generally issues the same model handgun uniformly through the unit.

Lot of guns out there, I use a Glock because of the amount of companies and departments that issue them and ease of getting accessories, like holsters and magazines.

Especially the magazines. I've been checking the prices for pistols that are competitors to Glock, and they're all considerably more expensive, without offering any significant advantages in either quality or capacity.
 
I use the Glock 27 for conceal carry and the Glock 22 for my range time, etc...both .40, and even though compact, the 27 takes G22's extended mags which makes purchasing and carrying extra ammo much easier.
 
9's I own currently own:
SIG 226 Mk 25
Sig P250
SW Shield
Kahr CW9

Also Own:
Sig Tac Pac 1911
Sig SP2022 .40 SW

The 226 is still my favorite.
 
9's I own currently own:
SIG 226 Mk 25
Sig P250
SW Shield
Kahr CW9

Also Own:
Sig Tac Pac 1911
Sig SP2022 .40 SW

The 226 is still my favorite.

That's a nice collection - what do you think of the SW Shield in your experience? that's one I haven't tried
 
I wasn't fond of the M&P line at first but a lot of students have been coming in with them so it got me interested.
 
I use the Glock 27 for conceal carry and the Glock 22 for my range time, etc...both .40, and even though compact, the 27 takes G22's extended mags which makes purchasing and carrying extra ammo much easier.

Oh hell to the yes. That's another reason I got the Glock 19, as it can use not only its magazines, but magazines from the 17, and the big 33 round magazines. When I get a Glock 26 I'm all set on the magazine department, as with an adapter it'll be able to use all of them with ease.

I wasn't fond of the M&P line at first but a lot of students have been coming in with them so it got me interested.

I have no real experience with the M&P line, or a number of other pistols that're competitors to Glocks. Although when I first found out about it a few years back, the idea and presentation intrigued me a lot.
 
Charlie_K said:
I have no real experience with the M&P line, or a number of other pistols that're competitors to Glocks. Although when I first found out about it a few years back, the idea and presentation intrigued me a lot.

Yeah, same here never shot the M&P just held a few to get the feel of it.

I've actually tried out a few different competitors at the range - I considered the M&P but then I looked at Springfield and I was totally drawn in by XD / XDM's . I mentioned them earlier in this thread, love them. Also enjoyed the Sig P229 as a conceal carry alternative to the G27, but ultimately stuck with Glock. Both are expensive, but the Sig was a bit more ridiculously priced at my local shop that's why I don't yet own one.

Maybe in the near future I'll go ahead & splurge on the Sig. It was definitely a smooth operator. H&K VP9 was the only other I tried recently and while it did grow on me, I don't particularly care for it. Little bit too many bells & whistles for me with the sights and the releases - extremely awkward mag release, in my humble opinion.

I'm a lefty so while I do appreciate their attempt at ambidextrous mechanisms, placing the release paddle on the trigger guard like that is just plain weird. My fingers don't reach easily so rapid reload is near-impossible. XD is much better - ambi-button and totally reachable/workable. As for Glock, well Glock is Glock, no explanation necessary you know how awesome they are. Simple, reliable, efficient. I should do a commercial for them, lol.
 
Last edited:
I've actually tried out a few different competitors at the range - I considered the M&P but then I looked at Springfield and I was totally drawn in by XD / XDM's . I mentioned them earlier in this thread, love them. Also enjoyed the Sig P229 as a conceal carry alternative to the G27, but ultimately stuck with Glock. Both are expensive, but the Sig was a bit more ridiculously priced at my local shop that's why I don't yet own one.

It's not just the SIG pistol that's expensive, their magazines are also quite expensive, which makes stocking up difficult. Beretta magazines are slightly more affordable, and will work if you accurately cut a new magazine notch in the side, but that's not something I can easily do.
 
There is no new training or regulations or background checks. The home-issue state has already done whatever is required for you to get your permit, and when you travel those states traveled to would obey it. That is how it works in general. Being a constitutional amendment, the right to keep and bear arms is a federal issue. States rights, according to the constitution, are only those that are not specifically mentioned in the Constitution. More than that, it's a common sense issue.

If this is to political, and I think it's heading that way, let me know, I'll delete my part.

OK, Like I said, its just my opinion, but, here goes.
there are training stipulations, that's why some states don't or didn't have reciprocity with other states, like Indiana had no training involved in the permit process so a lot of states wouldn't recognize there permit.

things have changed in recent years, like this year, Ohio does recognize Indiana permits now but for a long time they didn't, there's still a few states that don't.

Some states don't have background checks of any kind to carry concealed, like I believe Vermont, so a fed permit would, it would seem, require those people to get a background check for the permit.

Yes, I agree it should be a common sense issue, but as we see in the world, a lot, common sense isn't all that common, again just my opinion.

Back to topic, I've qualled with more than a few different pistols, I've found for me anyway, they all work pretty much the same, just different ergonomics, as far as choice, for me, K frame Smith, in any caliber, auto wise, pretty much anything but HK.
 
How so? If a permit is valid, it should be recognized regardless of what state issued it, regardless of what states feel is appropriate. We already know all those different training stipulations don't amount to jack, they're just there to harass people.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I don't agree, (with the training issue) I think there should be a training stipulation, at the least the legalities of when and how, and especially why you can or should use it. I really don't think they put the training in to just harass people, but you are entitled to your opinion.



How so?

How so, from what I understand cant have magazines that hold more than 7/seven rounds in NY, no hollow points in NJ, or high cap magazines.
I'm suppose to have a pistol that fits all that different criteria, or is the federal government going to just make the states go along, its happened more than once, I guess it could happen again.



Owning and carrying a gun is a constitutional right, meaning states don't have business looking into how to restrict the legal right to whatever degree they can get away with. McDonald already determined the right applies to the states, meaning they have little legal choice but to recognize it.

^^^^ that seems to be the bottom line, doesn't it, I just feel that the less the fed is involved the better most of us are, you don't like the way your state does things, vote, get things changed, it happens. plus if its a federal permit and not a state permit, then when the winds change, and they always do, its one permit that gets yanked not a bunch of different state permits.
again, just my opinion.



And the like sometimes involves what a friend or relative is carrying. Parts commonality and magazine compatibility shouldn't be overlooked. It's one reason police precincts and the military generally issues the same model handgun uniformly through the unit.

Its been my experience that parts commonality is almost true, same parts but, I've changed parts and so far everything I've changed was not drop in, took work to get right.



Especially the magazines. I've been checking the prices for pistols that are competitors to Glock, and they're all considerably more expensive, without offering any significant advantages in either quality or capacity.

had to bold my reply, not sure how you did that multi quote thing, I don't spend as much time typing on here as you.
 
Last edited:
I'm a range officer. Today, watched a 93-year-old shooter consistently create 3 inch groups on 3 inch paster targets at 30 feet with a stock CZ 75B. Claimed he couldn't do that with any other of his 12 modern pistols.

He wasn't a bit surprised.
So true; I've had six students over the past year who have used CZ 75B with great success. I hadn't seen anyone bring CZ's in before that. When I talk to them, all of them say it's reliable, accurate, and they wouldn't trade it for anything fancier/more expensive.
The CZ75B is iconic for a reason.
 
I believe senate is going to try a concealed carry permit that is valid in all 50 states again in 2017. It was shy two votes before. I think it will push through this time.

http://www.guns.com/2015/02/14/sena...concealed-carry-reciprocity-in-all-50-states/
I hope it doesn't pass. The Congress, once it gets involved in reciprocity, just won't be able to leave it alone. Don't expect them to treat a carry permit like a drivers license or a marriage license/certificate. Later the anti-gun politicians will want to legislate minimum standards and such. Be careful what you wish for. It's an issue that is best left to the states. The only carry legislation I'd support from Congress is nationwide Constitutional Carry, whereby a citizen, if legally allowed to possess and transport a firearm, can open carry or conceal carry simply by choosing to do so with no permission required from any government.

IIRC 13 states now have Constitutional Carry (no permit required to CC or OC). It's the wave into the future much as Shall-Issue was the wave beginning in the mid-1980s.

Watch the .gif below. Over the years turning from red (no issue) and yellow (may issue) to blue (shall issue), with green (unrestricted/Constitutional Carry) becoming more prevalent toward the end.

rtc.gif


I do take exception with the term "right to carry" when it comes to permits. It isn't a right recognized by a state if that state first requires you to get the government's permission.
 
Last edited:
Not that I pistol shoot anymore but when I had my CZ SP01 shadow it was very picky with the ammo I was using.
It loved the lapua but hated hand-loads the only way I could get them to shoot was to body die the round at the end of the loading process.

However I loved the S&W M&P pro which became my go to pistol for many years and it would shoot any ammo with no problems the same as the Glocks would to
due to the chamber dimensions me thinks.
 
I hope it doesn't pass. The Congress, once it gets involved in reciprocity, just won't be able to leave it alone. Don't expect them to treat a carry permit like a drivers license or a marriage license/certificate. Later the anti-gun politicians will want to legislate minimum standards and such. Be careful what you wish for. It's an issue that is best left to the states. The only carry legislation I'd support from Congress is nationwide Constitutional Carry, whereby a citizen, if legally allowed to possess and transport a firearm, can open carry or conceal carry simply by choosing to do so with no permission required from any government.

IIRC 13 states now have Constitutional Carry (no permit required to CC or OC). It's the wave into the future much as Shall-Issue was the wave beginning in the mid-1980s.

Watch the .gif below. Over the years turning from red (no issue) and yellow (may issue) to blue (shall issue), with green (unrestricted/Constitutional Carry) becoming more prevalent toward the end.

rtc.gif


I do take exception with the term "right to carry" when it comes to permits. It isn't a right recognized by a state if that state first requires you to get the government's permission.

Very cool animation. Thanks..

best

mqqn
 
Yeah, same here never shot the M&P just held a few to get the feel of it.

I've actually tried out a few different competitors at the range - I considered the M&P but then I looked at Springfield and I was totally drawn in by XD / XDM's . I mentioned them earlier in this thread, love them. Also enjoyed the Sig P229 as a conceal carry alternative to the G27, but ultimately stuck with Glock. Both are expensive, but the Sig was a bit more ridiculously priced at my local shop that's why I don't yet own one.

Maybe in the near future I'll go ahead & splurge on the Sig. It was definitely a smooth operator. H&K VP9 was the only other I tried recently and while it did grow on me, I don't particularly care for it. Little bit too many bells & whistles for me with the sights and the releases - extremely awkward mag release, in my humble opinion.

I'm a lefty so while I do appreciate their attempt at ambidextrous mechanisms, placing the release paddle on the trigger guard like that is just plain weird. My fingers don't reach easily so rapid reload is near-impossible. XD is much better - ambi-button and totally reachable/workable. As for Glock, well Glock is Glock, no explanation necessary you know how awesome they are. Simple, reliable, efficient. I should do a commercial for them, lol.

I had a 229, very nice gun, but to heavy for toting around for me, I've seen police trade ins online in GOOD condition with nights sights for $450, what I paid for mine.
 
I don't agree, (with the training issue) I think there should be a training stipulation, at the least the legalities of when and how, and especially why you can or should use it. I really don't think they put the training in to just harass people, but you are entitled to your opinion.

Harassment is really the only reason to explain what some states have put through, like when Illinois and DC were forced by the courts to allow for concealed carry, and sought the strictest standards in the country.

How so, from what I understand cant have magazines that hold more than 7/seven rounds in NY, no hollow points in NJ, or high cap magazines.
I'm suppose to have a pistol that fits all that different criteria, or is the federal government going to just make the states go along, its happened more than once, I guess it could happen again.

And how exactly is that any different from the current system, where someone not only needs to know what the local laws are, but whether or not their permit is recognized by the state they may be traveling to?

that seems to be the bottom line, doesn't it, I just feel that the less the fed is involved the better most of us are, you don't like the way your state does things, vote, get things changed, it happens. plus if its a federal permit and not a state permit, then when the winds change, and they always do, its one permit that gets yanked not a bunch of different state permits.
again, just my opinion.

It's not a federal permit though.

And really, this is a pretty weak argument since federal law always trumps state law. It doesn't really matter which state you get your concealed carry permit from, it becomes null and void the moment the federal government says so. If they were to outlaw the carrying of firearms outside of the home, whatever the states say to the contrary wouldn't amount to a hill of beans.
 
Harassment is really the only reason to explain what some states have put through, like when Illinois and DC were forced by the courts to allow for concealed carry, and sought the strictest standards in the country.



And how exactly is that any different from the current system, where someone not only needs to know what the local laws are, but whether or not their permit is recognized by the state they may be traveling to?



It's not a federal permit though.

And really, this is a pretty weak argument since federal law always trumps state law. It doesn't really matter which state you get your concealed carry permit from, it becomes null and void the moment the federal government says so. If they were to outlaw the carrying of firearms outside of the home, whatever the states say to the contrary wouldn't amount to a hill of beans.




Is it,
kind of like marijuana still being illegal per federal law but the states allowing it and decriminalizing it, or the manufacture of firearms and suppressors being federally regulated and some states changing their laws to allow it without federal approval, or, heroin being illegal to possess in any amount, and states refusing to prosecute for overdoses and small amount possession, despite federal law.

as far as different from now, I don't have to worry about NYs law, or IL law, or if my handgun, ammo and magazines are NY compliant, and I still think the feds should stay out of states business, YMMV.
There should be training involved, just like standard or at least close to standard drivers training, that standardization in the drivers education is the reason all drivers licenses are recognized.
ya I know, driving isn't in the constitution, but the word concealed isn't in there either.

back on topic, and the end of my involvement in this, shot more than a few sigs and HKs, nice, just expensive, its just a gun, not a lifestyle purchase, nobody cares once you point it at them whether you paid $800.00 or $400.00 and the price doesn't make it more deadly, but if its what you like, go for it.
I always liked the CZs though, and the EEA witness had a bunch of different makes and were actually nice. Shot well and were reliable.

We disagree, end of story. Have a nice day.
 
Marijuana is not a constitutional amendment. The right to keep and bear arms is. So your comparison is completely invalid.
 
[/B]



back on topic, and the end of my involvement in this, shot more than a few sigs and HKs, nice, just expensive, its just a gun, not a lifestyle purchase, nobody cares once you point it at them whether you paid $800.00 or $400.00 and the price doesn't make it more deadly, but if its what you like, go for it.
I always liked the CZs though, and the EEA witness had a bunch of different makes and were actually nice. Shot well and were reliable.

We disagree, end of story. Have a nice day.



They take off when the threat of logic is too much for them.
 
Back
Top