Becker innovation - need more of it

Crag the Brewer said:
Maybe Ethan needs to do a Different kind of collaboration..... Maybe something with L.T. Wright, or Esee again?

Let Them make His American knife designs, since Kabar doesn't want to.
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Lol y’all need to calm down a bit...Ethan’s said he’s had a very good relationship with Kabar numerous times over the years. I know we’re disappointed with the folder design, but until the man comes out personally and says he’s done with KaBar, I don’t think we should be making assumptions like that.
 
The Warrior said:
Someone say, BK2L?





Kind of like the looks of the BK2 with a straight clip, and choil:



BK2Plus, My first "mod" here:



Just throw this out there. BK9, with a BK2 front end:

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1/4 inch BK9... id be upset cause I just bought a bk9 and id have to buy another. My BK2 is still kindling king, but lacks in the reach department to compete in chopping and limbing.
 
The Camillus era BK9's were 0.21".
 
Aikiguy said:
Lol y’all need to calm down a bit...Ethan’s said he’s had a very good relationship with Kabar numerous times over the years. I know we’re disappointed with the folder design, but until the man comes out personally and says he’s done with KaBar, I don’t think we should be making assumptions like that.
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I didn't mean for it to be Harsh....
I Love my Kabar made knives!!!
 
Crag the Brewer said:
I didn't mean for it to be Harsh....
I Love my Kabar made knives!!!
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A Aikiguy

But since we are all speculating, and dreaming.....

I stand by my desires of having an L.T. Wright's version of a Patrol Machete made from A2.... With them sculpting nice, thick, awesome versions of Ethan's scales.....Or a 20.

That Would be Spectacular!!!
 
Crag the Brewer said:
A Aikiguy

But since we are all speculating, and dreaming.....

I stand by my desires of having an L.T. Wright's version of a Patrol Machete made from A2.... With them sculpting nice, thick, awesome versions of Ethan's scales.....Or a 20.

That Would be Spectacular!!!
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Cool idea.
I'd go with something tougher than A2 (tho I love A2) in a long swinger.
Just need to do the blade and bolt some kabar micarta right onto it.
 
Crag the Brewer said:
A Aikiguy

But since we are all speculating, and dreaming.....

I stand by my desires of having an L.T. Wright's version of a Patrol Machete made from A2.... With them sculpting nice, thick, awesome versions of Ethan's scales.....Or a 20.

That Would be Spectacular!!!
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Yep. Be an expensive bugger though.
 
Here's another thought. Considering the "economy of scale" available to Ka-Bar (that it can mass-purchase materials for tens of thousands of knives every year) the cost of the high carbon steel to make a BK 7 or BK 9 is $2.00 at most. Heat treating on a mass scale is not expensive, and with this $100-$120 knife comes plastic garbage handles which can not cost more than $1.00 to make in China or Taiwan, and an embarrassing and dirt cheap nylon sheath. Seeing as how a good set of micarta handled will cost $40-$50, and a decent kydex sheath will cost about $40-$60, you end up $200 deep into a $2 piece of sharpened metal. When you look at the economics of it, these knives should be priced at $30 with the same garbage handles and sheath. This is what a $50K MBA program that did nothing for me, has done to ruin my love of knives.
 
potoole said:
Here's another thought. Considering the "economy of scale" available to Ka-Bar (that it can mass-purchase materials for tens of thousands of knives every year) the cost of the high carbon steel to make a BK 7 or BK 9 is $2.00 at most. Heat treating on a mass scale is not expensive, and with this $100-$120 knife comes plastic garbage handles which can not cost more than $1.00 to make in China or Taiwan, and an embarrassing and dirt cheap nylon sheath. Seeing as how a good set of micarta handled will cost $40-$50, and a decent kydex sheath will cost about $40-$60, you end up $200 deep into a $2 piece of sharpened metal. When you look at the economics of it, these knives should be priced at $30 with the same garbage handles and sheath. This is what a $50K MBA program that did nothing for me, has done to ruin my love of knives.
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Are you trolling? $2??? I work in the steel industry and prices are higher than they have been in long long time. If it doesn’t meet your criteria, move on. No need to come in here and crap on the brand.
 
1066vik said:
You have obviously not priced steel recently. Or the cost of injection molding dies, or the cost of paying people to grind knives a livable hourly wage.
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Ka-Bar makes a decent portion of their knives in China and Taiwan, to include all of their sheaths and plastic handle materials.
This affords the company massive reductions in materials and labor costs.
Mass-producing plastic handle scales at that level makes them unbelievably cheap.
I have obviously priced steel, which is why I used the term economics of scale, and factored in (1) the quality of steel used & (2) the price-points at projected quantities used by a company that big.
Unless you graduated from Wharton or Stanford MBA program with a focus on international marketing and supply chain management and spent the past 18 months doing marking research for a major knife and tool company that hired you to compare their CDB with major competitors such as Ka Bar: maybe you should STFU and let me have some fun posting.
 
potoole said:
Ka-Bar makes a decent portion of their knives in China and Taiwan, to include all of their sheaths and plastic handle materials.
This affords the company massive reductions in materials and labor costs.
Mass-producing plastic handle scales at that level makes them unbelievably cheap.
I have obviously priced steel, which is why I used the term economics of scale, and factored in (1) the quality of steel used & (2) the price-points at projected quantities used by a company that big.
Unless you graduated from Wharton or Stanford MBA program with a focus on international marketing and supply chain management and spent the past 18 months doing marking research for a major knife and tool company that hired you to compare their CDB with major competitors such as Ka Bar: maybe you should STFU and let me have some fun posting.
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Obviously you don't know anything about manufacturing. Manufacturing is more than just the cost of raw materials to produce that item.

You're just trolling......reported. The Warrior The Warrior
 
91bravo said:
Obviously you don't know anything about manufacturing. Manufacturing is more than just the cost of raw materials to produce that item.

You're just trolling......reported. The Warrior The Warrior
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Wow. I'm glad to see all the senior members on Blade Forum share the same territorial attitudes to new members. How the hell am I a troll. I made a comment and now I'm being annoyed by you and your buds. All good. I thought there would be a more educated discourse available.
 
potoole said:
Ka-Bar makes a decent portion of their knives in China and Taiwan, to include all of their sheaths and plastic handle materials.
This affords the company massive reductions in materials and labor costs.
Mass-producing plastic handle scales at that level makes them unbelievably cheap.
I have obviously priced steel, which is why I used the term economics of scale, and factored in (1) the quality of steel used & (2) the price-points at projected quantities used by a company that big.
Unless you graduated from Wharton or Stanford MBA program with a focus on international marketing and supply chain management and spent the past 18 months doing marking research for a major knife and tool company that hired you to compare their CDB with major competitors such as Ka Bar: maybe you should STFU and let me have some fun posting.
Click to expand...

potoole said:
Wow. I'm glad to see all the senior members on Blade Forum share the same territorial attitudes to new members. How the hell am I a troll. I made a comment and now I'm being annoyed by you and your buds. All good. I thought there would be a more educated discourse available.
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Your very first post was condescending towards the price of Beckers. Telling folks to STFU and now you want educated discourse? I'm sure a mod will come along shortly...
 
I dunno why I feel the need to add to this, but here we go...

Yep, the cost of materials is only a modest percentage of the cost of the knife.
Processing them into a knife requires energy, equipment maintenance, rent/mortgage/etc., insurance, and LABOR.

I can make a knife that costs me $0 in steel and wood. Actually $0.
But it will put wear on 3 belts (each ~$8 at my scale), burn propane (assuming recycled "free" steel), electricity, and epoxy.
Then add the 5-8hrs at ~$20/hr (my modest pricing rate) and factor in rent for my space (which I don't because hobby) and you're up to a *minimum* of $120 per piece at hand-made one-off scale. More like $200+ for something not a scrappy mess shoved into a file handle. Not counting sheath ($25 in time and materials for basic kydex). The only blade I can justify selling for under $100 is a birudashi because little polishing and no scales.

And if I consign (retailer but no middleman), I accept less and the retailer adds a premium. This comes out to a slightly higher price to the customer, but they can have it *now*.

With all that in mind, I think Kabar's USA-made line is very reasonably priced.
If the retail markup over what the dealer pays is even as high as 50%, they've got the economies of scale working for them quite well. They don't sell to individuals at those prices because the dealers provide the bulk purchases that allow a "large" business to keep the money flowing more consistently.

Sure, stuff molded in China in bulk is cheap. But setup for that is expensive, and you don't do one-offs. You have to order that in bulk too, which means you need cash on hand or a good line of credit backed up by a viable business. That means sales premiums that in the aggregate will cover the large bulk investments.

So.
Supply chain ain't the whole story. It's expensive to run a business and keep it open over time.
 
daizee said:
I dunno why I feel the need to add to this, but here we go...

Yep, the cost of materials is only a modest percentage of the cost of the knife.
Processing them into a knife requires energy, equipment maintenance, rent/mortgage/etc., insurance, and LABOR.

I can make a knife that costs me $0 in steel and wood. Actually $0.
But it will put wear on 3 belts (each ~$8 at my scale), burn propane (assuming recycled "free" steel), electricity, and epoxy.
Then add the 5-8hrs at ~$20/hr (my modest pricing rate) and factor in rent for my space (which I don't because hobby) and you're up to a *minimum* of $120 per piece at hand-made one-off scale. More like $200+ for something not a scrappy mess shoved into a file handle. Not counting sheath ($25 in time and materials for basic kydex). The only blade I can justify selling for under $100 is a birudashi because little polishing and no scales.

And if I consign (retailer but no middleman), I accept less and the retailer adds a premium. This comes out to a slightly higher price to the customer, but they can have it *now*.

With all that in mind, I think Kabar's USA-made line is very reasonably priced.
If the retail markup over what the dealer pays is even as high as 50%, they've got the economies of scale working for them quite well. They don't sell to individuals at those prices because the dealers provide the bulk purchases that allow a "large" business to keep the money flowing more consistently.

Sure, stuff molded in China in bulk is cheap. But setup for that is expensive, and you don't do one-offs. You have to order that in bulk too, which means you need cash on hand or a good line of credit backed up by a viable business. That means sales premiums that in the aggregate will cover the large bulk investments.

So.
Supply chain ain't the whole story. It's expensive to run a business and keep it open over time.
Click to expand...

Until you run a business, nobody knows beforehand what it takes to run that business, until the steady flow of cash starts coming in. Then you have a budget to work with. You figure this would be bare bones knowledge to someone with an MBA.
 
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