Benchmade 3v

[sliceofaloha]

^ hey bud, if all it took was a little cardboard...

 

[Alchemy1]

Does anyone else find the irony in the fact that this thread has been going on for almost 2 weeks, with fairly stiff contention. Now, Nick comes in, makes a few VERY loose references to this specific information, and all is right in the universe with the Bailout now not being up to snuff?

 

[Yo Mama]

So you didn't say this:


Seems to me you are accusing benchmade of selling pot metal rather than 3v. Or are you saying I have changed what you actually said?

If the topic is to be taken seriously then your discussion points should be made seriously.

Cool story bro

 

[DocJD]

So you didn't say this:


Seems to me you are accusing benchmade of selling pot metal rather than 3v. Or are you saying I have changed what you actually said?

If the topic is to be taken seriously then your discussion points should be made seriously.

Please research how actual humans use language to communicate . Focus especially on "figure of speech " and "hyperbole" as opposed to "literal interruption".

Example : a person might say , "This knife is crap ". But they do not mean the knife is actually fecal material . Just that the quality is very poor . OK ?

Anyway , it's common knowledge they never use actual pots . They've got all that nice recycled confiscated firearms scrap for free !

 

[craytab]

Please research how actual humans use language to communicate . Focus especially on "figure of speech " and "hyperbole" as opposed to "literal interruption".

Example : a person might say , "This knife is crap ". But they do not mean the knife is actually fecal material . Just that the quality is very poor . OK ?

Anyway , it's common knowledge they never use actual pots . They've got all that nice recycled confiscated firearms scrap for free !

My point exactly. We don't need hyperbole in honest discussion. It was just a comment to stir the pot with insult, much like your last sentence.

 

[craytab]

Does anyone else find the irony in the fact that this thread has been going on for almost 2 weeks, with fairly stiff contention. Now, Nick comes in, makes a few VERY loose references to this specific information, and all is right in the universe with the Bailout now not being up to snuff?

I guess I just don't see Nick's video adding much of anything to the conversation.

 

[whp]

Interesting how when a company starts to have fit and finish problems, particularly after raising prices, people start to extrapolate them to other issues (such as edge retention and blade chipping).

 

[whp]

Benchmade has never struck me as a “knife nut” brand as much as a “knife collector” brand, perhaps with a tinge of “outdoors enthusiast that shops at REI”

I was suspicious as early as 2012 or so when I got my hands on a contego and could not figure out why people liked M4. Then I got a Spyderco Gayle Bradley and understood why.

Benchmade is not interested in steel nerdery beyond marketing. Benchmade, CRKT, Chris Reeve, and ZT are all in that same general crowd of hitting the bottom end of heat treatments.

Cold Steel, BOS (by reputation), and Spyderco are the only brands I really trust to nail the heat treatment. There are others, of course, that probably do a very good job, but I have limited experience outside of the brands mentioned.

Very perceptive.
I never equated Benchmade with anything but quality until the last few years. Now I find other choices that I like better for a better price. Part of of preference has to do with my current perception of quality.

 

[Banter 247]

Interesting how when a company starts to have fit and finish problems, particularly after raising prices, people start to extrapolate them to other issues (such as edge retention and blade chipping).

The steel conversation is actually unrelated and brand independent. It started as it’s own thing, and we’ve seen big hits and big misses within brands. Benchmade M4 hitting hard, and 3V soft, for example.

The reasoning behind the 3V conversation erupting was two-fold:

1. We’d like to see the manufacturers put more care into delivering on the promise of the steels they’re profiting from.

2. Even more importantly, we’d like to see people better prepared to see these things coming. Advertised-soft 3V in a 2 oz folder made no sense from the start, and this was called out early. As people go forward from this point, our collective hope is that they see these kinds of things for what they are in the future, and are able to smile and keep from wasting money.

 

[craytab]

Advertised-soft 3V in a 2 oz folder made no sense from the start, and this was called out early. As people go forward from this point, our collective hope is that they see these kinds of things for what they are in the future, and are able to smile and keep from wasting money.

If the product is as advertised, I don't see how this is a manufacturer problem.

 

[halden.doerge]

If the product is as advertised, I don't see how this is a manufacturer problem.

A solid point, though I think there's clearly disagreement about whether or not it's as advertised. But, the point is a good one. This whole debacle reveals some problems with the demands and sensibilities of the knife community. Benchmade clearly executed this knife badly, but the fact that the market made releasing this type of knife possible and attractive in the first place is a real problem, and it's a problem coming from us, the consumers. Too many of us want dumb shit in our knives that isn't well thought out, and then companies see that and try to make it and, whadayaknow, here we are.

 

[Banter 247]

If the product is as advertised, I don't see how this is a manufacturer problem.

Imagine if Toyota put out a new Camry and advertised that the chassis was made of cooked spaghetti, and some people went out and bought it, anyway.

Consumer problem: they clearly should have known to not buy it.

Manufacturer problem: choices made in production make no sense.

 

[craytab]

Imagine if Toyota put out a new Camry and advertised that the chassis was made of cooked spaghetti, and some people went out and bought it, anyway.

Consumer problem: they clearly should have known to not buy it.

Manufacturer problem: choices made in production make no sense.

Yet people still buy.

This isn't the horrible tragedy it's being made out to be....

 

[Banter 247]

Yet people still buy.

This isn't the horrible tragedy it's being made out to be....

Horrible tragedy?

I’m sorry, but people won’t be able to take you seriously in conversation if you insist on hyperbole.

 

[craytab]

Horrible tragedy?

I’m sorry, but people won’t be able to take you seriously in conversation if you insist on hyperbole.

Like a spaghetti car?

 

[Banter 247]

The sky is falling!

This was your first contribution to the thread, before you went on to criticize hyperbole. Based on your responses, I’m lead to believe that I should take this to mean that you’re asserting that the sky is actually falling.

Now, I know that you have a history of saying “let’s talk about the topic instead of each other” once painted into a corner, so I’m going to head that off by inviting you to ask that the thread be reviewed, and our respective post histories be weighed to assess interest in contributing to the actual topic of the thread.

 

[craytab]

This was your first contribution to the thread, before you went on to criticize hyperbole. Based on your responses, I’m lead to believe that I should take this to mean that you’re asserting that the sky is actually falling.

Now, I know that you have a history of saying “let’s talk about the topic instead of each other” once painted into a corner, so I’m going to head that off by inviting you to ask that the thread be reviewed, and our respective post histories be weighed to assess interest in contributing to the actual topic of the thread.

And just to get things back on topic, rather than talking about other posters, I'm still not seeing the issue if benchmade is selling a product as advertised. Would I buy one? No. It's not my type of knife, but if someone wants a plastic handled knife in tough 3v this looks like a good option. We've already seen good reports on the knife here from an actual knife user, not just an internet reviewer.

The sky isn't falling.

 

[Mo2]

And just to get things back on topic, rather than talking about other posters, I'm still not seeing the issue if benchmade is selling a product as advertised. Would I buy one? No. It's not my type of knife, but if someone wants a plastic handled knife in tough 3v this looks like a good option. We've already seen good reports on the knife here from an actual knife user, not just an internet reviewer.

The sky isn't falling.

It's not a good option and the knife community wants better. The few people who just collect or open mail with knives is not an excuse for this.

Edge retention is too low. Blade will bend and not go true. Excessive rolling, even chipping with a steel not known to do this in most knives made of it. The plastic handles will crack with hard prying. The coating will slow cutting. It's too thin for its hrc.

There is just no reason for this knife other than releasing it solely for collection or opening mail. Not even the target audience its said to be for. The designer should be ashamed of himself for this abomination.

We have many factories already pumping out sub 58hrc steels on knives that are designed on napkins by random people, all because people will just buy anything if it looks cool. We need less of all of that. We need more knives that are designed as real tools first. If they are disguised as a tool, like this, then they need to say it.

The g10/m4 freek is a good example of doing a tactical edc right. The bugout is a good light use edc. The bailout is a fail for tactical edc with 3v at 56hrc.

 

[Banter 247]

And just to get things back on topic, rather than talking about other posters, I'm still not seeing the issue if benchmade is selling a product as advertised. Would I buy one? No. It's not my type of knife, but if someone wants a plastic handled knife in tough 3v this looks like a good option. We've already seen good reports on the knife here from an actual knife user, not just an internet reviewer.

The sky isn't falling.

It is correct that the sky isn’t falling.

It is unfortunately incorrect that the knife is a good option. Attributes don’t express in a linear way across hardness, instead kind of expressing in a peak curve. At 55-56hrc as these are hitting, you’re outside the peak curve for wear resistance and edge holding, and are also outside the peak curve for toughness. That is, this is a bad option for someone who wants a plastic folder in (borrowing your words) “tough 3V”, because relative to 3V, this is not tough 3V. Specifically, it’s low enough in range that it’s giving up a fair bit of elasticity.

So, by running it in this way, the blade is set up for the apex to crash (read as: dull rapidly) at a certain point in use, and the blade will not return to its original shape reliably after a bit of flexion, which is a specific part of describing toughness.

You are, of course, free to put your confidence where you will. I would offer, however, that ‘internet reviewer’ and ‘actual knife user’ aren’t mutually exclusive.

Then again, I’m just an internet reviewer, myself.

 

[craytab]

It's not a good option and the knife community wants better. The few people who just collect or open mail with knives is not an excuse for this.

Edge retention is too low. Blade will bend and not go true. Excessive rolling, even chipping with a steel not known to do this in most knives made of it. The plastic handles will crack with hard prying. The coating will slow cutting. It's too thin for its hrc.

There is just no reason for this knife other than releasing it solely for collection or opening mail. Not even the target audience its said to be for. The designer should be ashamed of himself for this abomination.

We have many factories already pumping out sub 58hrc steels on knives that are designed on napkins by random people, all because people will just buy anything if it looks cool. We need less of all of that. We need more knives that are designed as real tools first. If they are disguised as a tool, like this, then they need to say it.

The g10/m4 freek is a good example of doing a tactical edc right. The bugout is a good light use edc. The bailout is a fail for tactical edc with 3v at 56hrc.

It is correct that the sky isn’t falling.

It is unfortunately incorrect that the knife is a good option. Attributes don’t express in a linear way across hardness, instead kind of expressing in a peak curve. At 55-56hrc as these are hitting, you’re outside the peak curve for wear resistance and edge holding, and are also outside the peak curve for toughness. That is, this is a bad option for someone who wants a plastic folder in (borrowing your words) “tough 3V”, because relative to 3V, this is not tough 3V. Specifically, it’s low enough in range that it’s giving up a fair bit of elasticity.

So, by running it in this way, the blade is set up for the apex to crash (read as: dull rapidly) at a certain point in use, and the blade will not return to its original shape reliably after a bit of flexion, which is a specific part of describing toughness.

You are, of course, free to put your confidence where you will. I would offer, however, that ‘internet reviewer’ and ‘actual knife user’ aren’t mutually exclusive.

Then again, I’m just an internet reviewer, myself.

I am in no way saying bm has done good with this 3v. The 3v I use comes from cpk. I'd like to see bm do better on this 3v as well.

The problem I have with this discussion is people seem to think bm is deliberately deceiving customers. Then you have extreme amounts of contempt for a product produced as advertised. Then you throw in that this contempt is coming from well known benchmade haters that don't own the knife. After that, enter internet reviewers who generally don't actually use their knives. I don't know, seems like a lot of hate hype for no reason to me.

And with that, I'm out. Enjoy your thread.