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Discussion in 'General Knife Discussion' started by Mo2, May 14, 2019.
It does make one curious.
Benchmade has never struck me as a “knife nut” brand as much as a “knife collector” brand, perhaps with a tinge of “outdoors enthusiast that shops at REI”
I was suspicious as early as 2012 or so when I got my hands on a contego and could not figure out why people liked M4. Then I got a Spyderco Gayle Bradley and understood why.
Benchmade is not interested in steel nerdery beyond marketing. Benchmade, CRKT, Chris Reeve, and ZT are all in that same general crowd of hitting the bottom end of heat treatments.
Cold Steel, BOS (by reputation), and Spyderco are the only brands I really trust to nail the heat treatment. There are others, of course, that probably do a very good job, but I have limited experience outside of the brands mentioned.
Chris Reeve S35VN has been hit twice at 59, and performs exceptionally well in edge retention testing. They stopped running it soft some time ago, and have apparently nailed their process and target hardness. They also seem to be avoiding heat damage to edges during sharpening.
The others... yeah. Definitely hit and miss. Benchmade has mostly done well with S30V process, though they trend low in range and have had a couple low. They’ve done well in edge retention testing. They’re nailing M4. Warm-butter-soft 20CV and 3V, though, and it shows.
You don't mean m390? Cause from what i've seen in other peoples hcr testing 20cv was higher hcr than advertised even. I have seen tests where m390 was bit softer than advertised tho.
This 3v thing has me scratching my head also. As others brought up also thinking was just a f#$% up on their part, or cutting costs. Doesn't make any sense to have that low, in any design of knife.
The spreadsheet needs a little updating. Benchmade has been advertising low ranges for M390 and 20CV. An early sample of their 20CV hit 59, which is in their advertised range, but below optimal range for the steel. Later ones... 57-58, iirc. Kenny sent a blade to them after it tested low (I believe it was 57) and they got the same hit.
At the ranges many companies are advertising M390/20CV/204P at, assuming a good process, it will perform very similarly to same range S30V, S35VN, or CPM-154 vs cardboard and plastic, but will still exhibit higher levels of corrosion resistance (unlikely to be different in real world use, but technically there) and will separate itself vs material like rope. These steels don’t fully bloom unless they hit closer to 61-63hrc, with a good process, and aggressive geometry.
I seen someone else test hrc BM 20cv and it was 62.X. But sounds like most reports aren't good. Not sure what to think as not sure how much I trust other people's testing of Benchmade. Considering it seems like a lot people wanting to see Benchmade's demise.
What I do know is that I'm gonna probably buy one of these hardness testers so I can test my own stuff out. Will probably be shocked what results are.
Among our circle of friends, response to new testers is “the more, the merrier”. The whole endeavor is about making data available, and creating ever growing sample sizes. Kurt’s results have been confirmed by at least five other parties now, including Benchmade on a same-sample 20CV hit, and Manly Knives.
FWIW, there’s no anti-BM agenda. Their M4 has hit at 62 and 64, and performs accordingly.
Where can one view this data? I recall seeing a Google docs page a while back but it didn't have most of the data you're speaking of.
A lot of it hasn’t been added, yet. I’m not exactly sure what the timeline will look like. When it does go up, it will appear on that same data sheet.
Okay, cool. I can't really watch a bunch of videos trying to find the results you're referencing, but I'd like to see what you guys came up with if you had it in readable form.
Are you saying that BM is not actually selling 3v and is rather deceiving it's customers by selling knives made from melted down pots?
Think about the accusation you have put forth.
My Anthem in 20CV is out being tested at the moment. It didn't perform all that great in testing honestly. I'm betting 58-59. It will be heading back to Benchmade for a new blade if that's the case.
BM specs 59-61. So if your Anthem hits at 59, then it's as advertised and you might not have a leg to stand on wanting new.
What’s it matter as long as it does what a knife should?....... which is cut! Lol for crying out loud people most of us probably wouldn’t even know the difference between these minor variables. I’d actually bet on it.
Test a spydie vg10 or 154cm bet none are not much better, just saying.
No disrespect to any one but I’d bet even experienced smiths that custom hand make stuff even vary wildly. And u know what would probably never know cause it wasn’t listed at any number.
And i get it if you’re not into it or don’t believe the numbers but I’ve stated actual use of the bailout with no issues at all, actually has shown to be one of the more edge holding capable edges I’ve owned.
As the poster said below, if thats the hrc of the knife, it will be within the spec of BM..Replacing it will likely gets you a blade with the same hrc.
The word “shown” as used here requires something substantive to point to. Without that, it hasn’t “shown” anything. That’s why people are doing testing.
At the end of the day, though, it’s as simple as, “are you happy with your ownership experience?” If so, you’re winning.
I think it's great you guys doing these hcr tests. Honestly has made me more opened minded to buying not as popular brands from overseas, and some I will never buy again, like kizer. Looks like their hrc is almost always REALLY soft.
It's also good to know that some clones are actually using the steels their advertising, and some not.
I was shocked to see that Ganzo has very high hrc on their knives.
Hate to say this, but I'm seeing more and more the appeal of clones and knock offs. Truly truly shocked at ganzo, and other super cheap brands would never have thought to have ideal hrc for the steels from overseas.
There are some things to bear in mind. Some of the Ganzo stuff hit high, but performed poorly in edge retention testing (I believe Outpost76 did that one- D2), because the process to hit that hrc number seems to have been blown. In contrast, some Benchmade S30V has punched above its weight a little (58hrc) and performed well.
Steve is working on BM 3V edge retention as we speak. He said it readily took a crisp edge, and was whittling hairs with it in chat in no time. That’s far from concrete indication of a process quality, but he tends to be good at calling that part during test prep sharpening. Of course, we already know the hardness.
That video will be done shortly, and should be memorable.
I totally believe that about ganzo. I've owned I think two ganzos, just to try. Both d2, dull as butter knives both of them out of box. Sharpening them they didn't just didn't have that nice creamy/greasy feel to them sharpening that Benchmades d2 has to it for example. Seemed like neither of them took a decent edge. I didn't carry either nor tried to test if had decent edge retention. So that doesn't surprise me at all they tested poorly.
I'm betting Benchmades 3V knives will be more than satisfying to many people even with the low hrc.
Obviously hrc isn't everything, honestly id perfer lower hrc than too high, and everybody has different wants and needs.
I'm glad people are doing all these tests tho.
“Shown”. As in the several comments on various threads I’ve commented that in a day
was just sharing my extensive use experience of it being good, enjoy the witch hunt fellas I’ll c myself out cause this is just gotten laughable and going nowhere!