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Discussion in 'General Knife Discussion' started by Mo2, May 14, 2019.
Let's start with the price. $19.99 is good enough.
Isn't that the same reason Emerson gives for their soft 154cm? Toughness and ease of field sharpening for high speed low drag tactical operators.
ETA: I'm not saying this is good, it just isn't surprising to me at all. Seems like the standard industry response.
Order cancelled no problema. Next.
With durability being so important, that must be why Benchmade went with a super durable aluminum pommel and extra tough Grivory scales instead of steel and G10.
I don't buy that explanation. If they wanted tough, why didn't they just use 5160 and be done with it (spoiler: I'm guessing it's because they wanted to profit off the 3v name).
This, and a couple of Benchmade's recent choices have left a bad taste in my mouth. It just seems like Benchmade is going the way of Gerber and is moving away from high quality knives for enthusiasts... And increasing production/marketing for the masses, while keeping the "butterfly tax". Right now the 555-1 (and a field sharpener) is my only Benchmade. Until/unless Benchmade gets their crap together and decides who they want for customers, it's going to be my last.
You did not have to go that low! a Dodge?
100% and what company does 154cm better than Emerson? Benchmade, but 154cm isn’t sexy.
Benchmade’s response is total bull imo.
They ran it soft because it is easier to grind so they save money during manufacturing and their precious lifesharp service.
Either that or they botched it.
No informed cutler would intentionally run 3v that low, in a small folder at that.
If this was a 10” chopper it might be acceptable in certain circumstances but a production folder no.
They went with those for weight. Steel and G10 would have been heavier, which was not part of the design.
And IME, the Grivory scales are plenty tough. I won't break mine, and I've watched enough vids to see others try and fail too.
BM's response may seem like a crock to some... hell, maybe to most... but it's a response, which is what we were after.
Are there other makers running 3V at this hardness? And if so, is it for the same reason that Benchmade has given?
There response is bs. They know this. Think about why and who they are marketing it too. They really had no choice but to say that. Talk with your friends that are Law enforcement, Ruks, military, etc. I have and many other people have.
No maker in there right mind is going to do this after testing it at this thinner geometry.
LOL! I just got done saying that their response may seem like a crock to some if not most. Customer #1 has checked in.
Wasn't defending the nature, content, or reasoning behind BM's reply. Saying they replied... which is what folks were waiting on.
My big question is still the same... are there other makers running 3V at the same or similar hardness for same/similar reason?
Not to the best of my knowledge. The research I’ve done and my buddies have done doesn’t even yield info for 3v knife steel treated below 58HRC. Someone also mentioned that companies like Emerson are famous and have built an entire company based on “tough”, “field sharpen-able”, Knives that use 154cm that is treated around 57-59HRC. I think this is an ironic point of reference because who else is known for 154cm knives? Benchmade. I won’t draw any conclusions on why 3v would be used when 154cm has been used by the company for years and models of knives with that steel are cheaper. However, it definitely seems curious at the least.
This is a quote from Ernest, on Blade Forums, himself. July 25,2018
Why do I use 154CM steel when there are other "super steels" out there? First, you need to understand why I build my knives the way I do. I build hard-use tools - that's it in a nutshell.
Believe me, I know all about all of the "super steels." I even know the metallurgists and the scientists personally and I have very frank and open dialogues ongoing with all of them. Why do I use 154CM? We do not push the Rockwell on any of our knives. They finish at 57 to 59 RC, well below the high limits. Do any of you own a real Marine Ka-Bar knife? Test the Rockwell on it and you'll see what I'm talking about. Our knives may get dull, but rarely if ever get broken. That's exactly what I want, and exactly what I don't want. I could tell you dozens of customer stories of knives that self-destructed in hard use in extreme situations, knives made by other companies - not mine. You see, most users never push their knives to those extremes, no matter how hard they claim. Ask any soldier about combat or deployment use. You find out what breaks and what lasts real fast, and I'm not talking about hand-to-hand combat. I'm talking about every day, beat the shite out of stuff, use.
We've had edges chip and tips break off, but in over 40 years and hundreds of thousands of knives, I can count on one hand the number of my knives that users have broken, and that's always been doing something really dumb. One guy broke a Roadhouse trying to pry open a manhole cover. He wedged the knife in the crack and then stepped on it with his foot. Now having said all that, I have to admit that we do use some other steels for specific orders from customers and for some special editions that we make, but you see, we don't even push 154CM, which is an outstanding steel for its intended use, so there's no real reason or need to go for any of the so-called upgraded steels, because we would still only heat treat them to 57 or 59 Rockwell also.
It seems like everyone is always trying to put me in the box with all the other companies. I've never marched to their drummer, and I never will. It's not who we are, and it's not how we are. Emerson Knives Incorporated was the first, foremost and only tactical knife company in the world for a very long time. Younger members of this forum would never even know that fact. I created that market, and I've owned that market for almost 40 years now. Everything from us is done for a purpose, and that's what our customers expect. Not a rant, not a bash, just an explanation.
Imho Buck does it better than both, in all honesty I don't think Benchmade is a company concerned with offering their customers the newest innovations in blade steel that would go to Spyderco.Nothing wrong with 154cm however if done right.
I’ve seen at least 1 BOS knife not test well too. It was s30v, if memory serves. However, to your point, why use a new steel below its potential, when you have a cheaper option that you’re familiar with?
Benchmade seems to me more about their platform than blade steel and offering various upgrades like scales ect at a big premium.
They sell scales?
I've always wondered if Spyderco actually maximizes the heat treat on all of those steels they offer in sprint runs and mules etc. Or are they doing the same thing and offering them just for the novelty of the steel, with a less than optimal heat treat
You guys check out my IG (Alchemy_1). I just put up a whole slew of knives that I’m in for testing. 5 or so of the 7 are Spyderco sprints. I have also said what I’m sending next as well. This is going to be an ongoing project. I will upload info to my YT as I get the data in...same name as IG. Not self promotion, but if anyone is interested, that’s where I post/hang out.
For what it’s worth, all of the Spyderco sprints we’ve tested, to the best of my knowledge, have been in the optimal range. Well over 60.
Sal the owner of Spyderco is a steel junkie like some people on this forum. The Sprints and Mules are pretty limited targeting those like himself interested in steel not normaly found in production knives.I truly believe any of these runs have been optimized to bring you the best of that particular steel.Imho it's more of a fun thing than a big money maker.Take the sprint run of Superblue for example, if memory serves me correctly they were priced only slightly more than their VG10 brethren.