Corona thread. No politics please

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Only participate if you have the same opinion?

Don't use a rhetorical catch phrase argument. You have already violated the spirit of the thread but maybe didn't know any better. I don't wish for Lorien to pull out the red-banner card because that is what happens in the cesspool precisely because of that which you have stated but phrased and then justified as "trolling". Shrugs.
 
Trolls gotta troll!

In other news, someone in one of my Facebook camping groups asked yesterday why there were restrictions LOL like really? I guess some people do live under rocks...
 
We do need to get the economy going again. Slowly and with social distancing in place, masks have been shown to work. We should use them.
We need testing and contact tracing in place. The problem in America is lack of a coherent message and strategy.
Wisconsin Supreme Court strikes down governor’s stay at home order. A bunch of bars open up and people consider it an “all clear”.
We should not be going back to “things as usual” for a while.
I expect a lot of stutters and stops.
 
Trolls gotta troll!

In other news, someone in one of my Facebook camping groups asked yesterday why there were restrictions LOL like really? I guess some people do live under rocks...

I gave the fella the benefit of the doubt and I'll just leave it at that.

Regarding the oblivious folks: a virus can simply not be wished away by praying against it, blowing very hard at it, using blood magic or using one's Ouija board! Trust me, all these methods have been tried and tested throughout human history with absolutely ZERO scientific effects. The best which we can do as individuals is to educate ourselves against stupidity which unfortunately can run rampant just like the virus.

I am an older fella so I have no Facebook and no SM accounts even to interact with cool-beans like CPK on IG. I shudder at the thoughts of belonging to any FB group!
 
I still think the best strategy is to open up society based on risk class. If you're in your twenties and don't live with any seniors, you'd be consider low risk and would be let out first.

I don't know how to handle the schools though. As much as you distance kids, they just don't exercise the same level of cleanliness. My 6 and 3 year old nephew and niece try not to cough/sneeze without covering up but sometimes they just plain forget and it's not really their fault. They're just kids.

The use of masks/face coverings would help SO much. There needs to be a stronger push to use them. Even in Ontario, I'm noticing fewer and fewer people using them as they think it's safe now because businesses are opening up.

Businesses should only open up to people who WEAR masks/face coverings. That will entice more people to use them.
 
Getting people safely back into work, school, society etc has to be a key part of the health strategy.

The current tools at our disposal sans any effective therapeutics and vaccine are mitigation and suppression. No one in their right mind is advocating for staying in shelter in perpetuity because those people ought to know very well the whole host of issues which that will bring about. Right now the tools at hand are mitigation and suppression and timing is a crucial element when using these tools. Unfortunately since we are in an election year, the foot is being let go off the SIS brakes a bit too soon, IMHO.
 
I still think the best strategy is to open up society based on risk class. If you're in your twenties and don't live with any seniors, you'd be consider low risk and would be let out first.

I don't know how to handle the schools though. As much as you distance kids, they just don't exercise the same level of cleanliness. My 6 and 3 year old nephew and niece try not to cough/sneeze without covering up but sometimes they just plain forget and it's not really their fault. They're just kids.

The use of masks/face coverings would help SO much. There needs to be a stronger push to use them. Even in Ontario, I'm noticing fewer and fewer people using them as they think it's safe now because businesses are opening up.

Businesses should only open up to people who WEAR masks/face coverings. That will entice more people to use them.

Agree, I would like to see more intelligent debate on how to use technology, government service, medical science to get society working again instead of lock everything down and use force to maintain it until a vaccine arrives or the wvirus just goes away... neither of of which have any guarantee of happening
 
Only participate if you have the same opinion?

have you seen anywhere I've given someone else that warning in this thread? I've seen plenty of varying opinions and have made no warnings. Then again, I've followed this thread since the beginning which has been civil and productive because people respect each other enough to not beat each other up over ideology

your quoted comment borders on mod sass, but I'm gonna let it slide since you seem to have gotten the point. Keep it clean fella
 
Agree, I would like to see more intelligent debate on how to use technology, government service, medical science to get society working again instead of lock everything down and use force to maintain it until a vaccine arrives or the wvirus just goes away... neither of of which have any guarantee of happening

A vaccine is coming but it takes time. From development to clinical trials to production/distribution, it all takes time. There will not be a sufficient global supply for a very long time. Right now, all these control measures are critical to buy us time to release a vaccine. The most important thing is not to overrun the health care system while keeping the economy staying afloat.

I do not believe the economy will fully shut down in this age. This pandemic will simply change the way we do business, which will include a radical shift in supply chains.
 
2 main groups of people who are asking for restrictions to stay in place: 1. people who can afford stay home- money in the bank, can work from home, can work around restrictions, or still getting a paycheck for whatever reasons 2. overwhelmed health care workers
If you mute group one, then the argument becomes a little more easier to follow:
how many people die immediately : suicide, from lack of access to medical care to treat other illnesses...is this number going to be greater or lesser than the number of covid deaths?
How many people die 'slow' deaths(can this number even be estimated?): loss of business, pushed into poverty which may be felt for generations, women and children locked up with their abusers etc
If there is a surge /second peak, does your health care facility have the resources to handle it?
If you are in group 2 and are still in favor of keeping restrictions in place, what is your criteria for lifting them?
I posted before; the sad fact is that if everyone (or even a vast majority) of people could actually behave like intelligent, considerate human beings, we wouldn't need a whole lot of rules and regulations.

Look at 2 of the countries that have been handling this pandemic comparatively well: South Korea and Singapore. Aggressive testing, contact tracing and very high mask usage.

New outbreaks/clusters are aggressively tested, traced and clamped down on quickly, and the only new clusters have been from unprotected contact. They have very few large clusters or waves, because masks in public are a commonly accepted practice.

Now look at other countries that DON'T have any of these measures in common use. Indonesia, India, Brazil and many Middle Eastern countries are being hit hard despite being hot climates. Rampant community spread.

If we ensured that our testing capabilities were ramped up sufficiently (and I mean real testing capability, not millions of tests that can't/aren't being done because we have a shortage of swabs, vials or any other required necessities), and ramped up PPE availability (especially masks) for HCWs AND every citizen in the nation, we should be able to reopen most businesses somewhat safely.

Unfortunately, there will be some businesses that are just too problematic to reopen safely right now. Bars are one. IMO, dine-in restaurants are a problem too. Consuming food and drink requires having your mourh and nose uncovered.

The article about the 1 infected person infecting several other people in a restaurant seated tables away, but in the path of the HVAC airflow, indicates that even spacing the clientele a little further apart, may not be safe.

Gyms are another business that would be difficult to safely reopen. Even if you limit the number of people in the gym at any one time, by its very nature, we're talking about an enclosed space where people are breathing hard and huffing and puffing (and if someone doesn't need to huff and puff in the gym, why go? Maybe take a stroll around your neighborhood instead?)

One asymptomatic individual in a gym is going to be spewing a lot of virus into the environment, and breathing through a mask isn't the most pleasant as it is. I doubt anyone would be wearing a filtering mask to work out in. Then you also have to contend with surface contamination of the equipment etc.

But it's like little kids who refuse to stop running around the house with lit matches. Mommy decides she has to punish them and lock away all the matches, because she doesn't think they're responsible enough to be safe.

We may not be ignorant children, but it sure would help if stopped acting like it.
 
A vaccine is coming but it takes time.

You don't know, because nobody does. But yah if we get a vaccine it will take aot of time and money. In the meantime I hope promising research is not lost because popular group think eg the research into treatment via anti-inflammatories, anti-clotting agents, anti-parasitics....etc.

It does appear evident that most people who get the virus are not at risk. No reason they can't keep society functioning on a risk benefit basis.
 
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Businesses should only open up to people who WEAR masks/face coverings. That will entice more people to use them.
Back to not behaving like idiotic, bratty little children, eg. the reports of people spitting on employees, the one guy wiping his nose on the employee's sleeve, people fighting, being unruly and even the incident in Flint where the security guard was murdered (shot) because some piece of garbage didn't like being disrespected in being told they couldn't enter the store without a mask on (by order of the Governor).
 
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It does appear evident that most people who get the virus are not at risk. No reason they can't keep society functioning on a risk benefit basis.

Here are some foods for your thoughts but let me start with the premise that we agree on most people seeming to have some form of basic immunity unless they suffer from some underlying health affecting preexisting condition such as COPD / diabetes / heart disease / kidney & liver diseases / obesity / others...

Now riddle me this, how come so many first responders have been getting affected or even died from COVID-19? Surely not all of them suffered from forms and varieties of the above conditions. I still believe that the virus can penetrate your basic immunity shields if exposed to it long enough and often enough. Ignore this at your own peril because IMO no one other than COVID-19's immediate survivors seem to be totally immune and even with those survivors, their affective immunity seem to be determined as only limited in its durability.
 
Only participate if you have the same opinion?

I'm pretty open minded and accepting of folks with a different point of view than mine. I'm fine getting along with someone I disagree with. We have a regular here who literally believes the earth is literally flat (which I don't personally agree with) and while I don't enjoy debating about the shape of the earth I do enjoy him and his presence on the forum. We get along. This forum can tolerate people with disparate opinions, that's not the problem. Because we're all knife nuts and we're all here to enjoy our shared interests. We try to be cool here. This is not the political area or W&C.

It's important to keep politics out of discussion here, as much as possible, because due to the bitter political divide in the country it leads to dickish behavior between folks from different camps. I think this is due to fake news in social media and too much sensationalist nonsense from the media on both sides that has damaged discourse so we have to leave it out of here unless handled very tactfully.
 
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Just because B bluemax_1 mentioned India. Can make the argument that the stats may be a huge underestimation, but how many bodies can you hide?Also, cases have still not peaked
It gets more alarming when you look up the comparison in total reported deaths (not just from Covid-19, but all deaths) by region/country, pre-Covid-19 vs in the presence of this pandemic. All the stats show significantly higher mortality rates than accounted for by the reported Covid-19 deaths.

Whether it's from added stress from what's happening, or people dying because they were trying to avoid going to the hospital in the midst of a pandemic, or unreported deaths due to Covid-19 (many places don't bother testing the deceased if they hadn't already been tested/confirmed prior to dying), this pandemic has resulted in significant spikes in all-cause mortality just about everywhere it's hit hard.
 
On a lighter note, The Air Force has had two flyovers out here in SoCal to show appreciation to our First Responders and Healthcare Workers and I just have to say, it was frickin’ amazing!!
Yesterday we had a C-17 and KC-135 do a ridiculously low flyover, and today the Thunderbirds flew so damn low I actually ducked down for a second!

Hot damn, I love this Country!
What an adrenaline rush!
 
Back to not behaving like idiotic, bratty little children, eg. the reports of people spitting on employees, the one guy wiping his nose on the employee's sleeve, people fighting, being unruly and even the incident in Flint where the security guard was murdered (shot) because some piece of garbage didn't like being disrespected in being told they couldn't enter the store without a mask on (by order of the Governor).

"I do what I damn wanna do, when I choose to do it and wherever it darn pleases me to" Also, "I'm a constitutional expert and scholar because I have tattooed: WE THE PEEPLE on my forearm" :)
 
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