Cts-xhp

The Mastiff said:
Vassili, your usual arrogance about your steel rating system is easy enough to take. So is your refusal to pick up bits of knowledge that have been repeated over and over again, such as 440V/S60V being chippy at higher hardnesses.

What I can't stomach is your insistence that people like Sal G., and Thomas W. are lying , and part of some conspiracy.

Being a block of wood is one thing, but having paranoid delusions about people that have a well earned reputation for honesty and straight shooting is inexcusable. Why you are allowed to continue posting here is beyond me.

Joe
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Can you please, again make clear what manufacturer you are talking about?

Last time you compare D2 with other steel, it turns out that you were talking about very BM D2 which in my test was worse of all. So lets make it clear which CPM S60V you are talking.

Now It is well known fact that every steel which is over hardened will be brittle. Once again - any steel at high hardness will be brittle and not only CPM S60V but CPM S30V etc.

BTW I saw quite a few broken CPM S30V knives and none CPM S60V.

Also I am not sure that we are talking here about bits of knowledge, but tons of advertisements. Bit of knowledge - is what I am trying to find and it is pretty hard.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
Chuck Bybee said:
noz, are you projecting a little? Does any steel company have your information linked on their website?

From Carpenter's Website:
CTS XHP takes the lead in a sharpness test
Watch this super-sharp Spyderco knife demo

Is noz a shill for Carpenter? His would explain his irrational behavior and denial of reality.

I think Carpenter deserves better.
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Hmm... Intresting turn Alpha Knife Supplies made.

I did not treat Carpenter any different that any othe steel producer. While one of their steel show excellent results (CTS-XHP) other did not (CTS-BD1, made by Spyderco request) and I was saying it all the way.

I post quite a bit of knives whittling hair on my YouTube here there are my favorites:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGFWaDrC-hI

Are you suggesting that Spyderco CTS-XHP should not be there because I found it one of the best?

Other link is to Spderco Forum were other members also presented, so this is not quite only my info, but Spyderco Forum Thread.

So what is your point? I am pushing for excellent steel as I am doing for ZDP-189, Dozier D2, SR101, Roselly HC etc...
Only reason is - excellent performance. If they have average performance like Elmax and M360 (and CTS-BD1), I am not pushing
for that unlike lot of others doing.

I bought all those knives myself as well as all ropes and threads and everything else.

It was Ankerson who asked me to buy BM710 with M390 to test and I did - I was under impression
that time that he is doing testing as I do. And count his word that this is good steel - because I had
low expectation myself for that knife. It turns out I should not really consider that for a lot of reasons.

So I am very proud that Carpenter have this links, but this is only iteration I have with them so far.
I did sent them mail end of last year asking if I may get other steels to test 20P, 40P - but they never replay.

I hope I make this all clear.

Thanks, Vassili.

I actually have quite a bit of links to my "info" from many sources - mostly to my sharpening lessons:

http://www.youtube.com/user/nozh2002?feature=mhum#p/u/77/5TscN9h-1xQ

I do not control that. People just link it.

Now - you would not mind if I remove link to your company site, I suppose...
 
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nozh2002 said:
I did not treat Carpenter any different that any othe steel producer.
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Based on your track record, this isn't true. You declared CTS-XHP to be the best steel ever, and you have been pushing it as much as you possibly could, including accusing steel makers, knife makers, testers, etc of conspiring to push sub-par steels. You were aware of the production issues with that steel, yet you keep pushing it. And that is the only steel maker who linked to your tests...
 
Gator97 said:
Based on your track record, this isn't true. You declared CTS-XHP to be the best steel ever, and you have been pushing it as much as you possibly could, including accusing steel makers, knife makers, testers, etc of conspiring to push sub-par steels. You were aware of the production issues with that steel, yet you keep pushing it. And that is the only steel maker who linked to your tests...
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Actually that's not strictly true, as he stomps on CTS-BD1 by the same maker, all the while completely oblivious to the fact that BD1 was never meant to be a high-end steel.

I can also tell he had not pre-ordered the Para2 in CTS-20CP nor the Military in CTS-XHP due to his constant bitching about the lack of knives in that steel.

I also don't understand his reasoning that XHP should be available because Carpenter has a different steel available. It's like me demanding that CPM Rex 121 should be available because S30V is. Obviously one is easier to make than the other, but I suppose a person who doesn't have the first clue about steels wouldn't know about that.
 
Can you please, again make clear what manufacturer you are talking about?

Last time you compare D2 with other steel, it turns out that you were talking about very BM D2 which in my test was worse of all. So lets make it clear which CPM S60V you are talking.

Now It is well known fact that every steel which is over hardened will be brittle. Once again - any steel at high hardness will be brittle and not only CPM S60V but CPM S30V etc.

BTW I saw quite a few broken CPM S30V knives and none CPM S60V.

Also I am not sure that we are talking here about bits of knowledge, but tons of advertisements. Bit of knowledge - is what I am trying to find and it is pretty hard.

Thanks, Vassili.
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Vassili, you are just changing the subject, which you always seem to do. I don't care about your testing or results. I've been very clear about that. I like them, which I've also stated to you.

I do not have any respect for your arrogance, and most of all your disrespect of guys like Sal, and Thomas, and Phil Wilson who have developed much better reputations across the board than you have, in case you haven't noticed. Your theories about conspiracies honestly leave me wondering about your mental health. That's your business though.

Don't come here and show such disrespect for those that have helped us for several decades and are virtual icons of the industry. They established their reputation for honesty long ago and contribute more to the knife world in the average day than you have in your lifetime so far.

Snap out of it. Show respect and perhaps you will get some back yourself. I tried talking to you nicely but it went the wrong direction due to your insistence of your methods being better than mine and everyone elses. It was a wash. I'm being more direct now as you seem to not really absorb things that don't fit your perceived notions.

You ruin every thread you post in with your irrational and abrasive behavior.

Joe
 
Its completely nuts to say the knife industry is 'pushing' steels on anybody anyway. Benchmade is using M390 a fair bit lately, but usually only in small runs of limited editions. Elmax has only been used by Kershaw in the 0551 which is another limited run. How is this 'pushing' inferior steels? I think if anything we owe these companies a debt of gratitude for bringing us new steels to try out at very reasonable prices. I recently picked up a knife employing M390 for way under $200. The 0551 Elmax costs $199, hardly a massive outlay. Try find a custom with the latest steels for that kind of money. The whole thing is absurd. CTS-XHP will find its place eventually, when Carpenter gets its problems ironed out. Must the entire knife industry grind to a halt (excuse the pun) until that day comes? Besides, people who are actually USING these knives daily seem to be quite happy with them. Not everyone is obsessively sitting their whittling hair with there knives in an effort to prove which is the best steel of all, that kind of behaviour is just a bit crazy... and we have more than a few obsessive types here as it is. I count myself among them!
 
The Mastiff said:
Vassili, you are just changing the subject, which you always seem to do. I don't care about your testing or results. I've been very clear about that. I like them, which I've also stated to you.

I do not have any respect for your arrogance, and most of all your disrespect of guys like Sal, and Thomas, and Phil Wilson who have developed much better reputations across the board than you have, in case you haven't noticed. Your theories about conspiracies honestly leave me wondering about your mental health. That's your business though.

Don't come here and show such disrespect for those that have helped us for several decades and are virtual icons of the industry. They established their reputation for honesty long ago and contribute more to the knife world in the average day than you have in your lifetime so far.

Snap out of it. Show respect and perhaps you will get some back yourself. I tried talking to you nicely but it went the wrong direction due to your insistence of your methods being better than mine and everyone elses. It was a wash. I'm being more direct now as you seem to not really absorb things that don't fit your perceived notions.

You ruin every thread you post in with your irrational and abrasive behavior.

Joe
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Well I am not interested in discussing my behavior. Sorry, it seems to me as an obvious change of subject, which is not related to steel. I can understand that it is much easy to discuss - do not require any skill or knowledge. Does not require any focus or accuracy - which is important when we talk about steels, like I mentioned before when you rated D2 based on worse possible implementation.

But discuss someone else behavior is easy for any one, any age or education level and require different "talents". I am trying to avoid this - it is not productive at all and as well not very interesting, unlike steel testing.

Yes I do not treat anyone as they are superior beings, even for Sal, Thomas and Phil. Sorry, no Cool Aid here as well.

So I just like to make it clear what CPM S60V you are talking about (because once you already misrepresent D2 referring to obviously failure in HT) and sorry I will ignore all things which is not related to that. I am not teenage student and you are not my principal.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
I find it humourous how vasilli TYPES with an accent.

Tell me sir, is your homeland located under a bridge?
 
nozh2002 said:
Yes I do not treat anyone as they are superior beings, even for Sal, Thomas and Phil. Sorry, no Cool Aid here as well.

So I just like to make it clear what CPM S60V you are talking about (because once you already misrepresent D2 referring to obviously failure in HT) and sorry I will ignore all things which is not related to that. I am not teenage student and you are not my principal.

Thanks, Vassili.
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Instead of treating them like superior beings, how about treating them as people with more experience than you?

How many knives have you made or designed sir? None? Great, so stop talking.
 
nozh2002 said:
Well I am not interested in discussing my behavior.
Click to expand...
You sure don't mind discussing others' behavior. You're only interested in "pushing" CTS-XHP, because it's linked to your site, and exposing "conspirators".
 
A lot of variables.

RC hardness has a huge effect on how long an edge will last.

Blade thickness, grind and width behind edge are huge.

Is the steel able to support a 20 30 or a 40 degree edge? A thin edge will cut much easier but most steels will not behave well with such thin edges. What angle edge is the steel being tested?

And what about how the knife is sharpened? From what I have read by metal experts, it is not difficult to overheat an edge through grinding changing the RC - by manufacturer or user.

There is little talk about carbide size and what type of edge geometry this will allow.

I appreciate all the testing and read it with great excitement but with so many variables I take it all with great interest and a grain of salt. I actually love to learn what steels are used in manufacturing where maybe 1000's of cuts per hour are made.

David

A couple after thoughts. Why do Phil Wilson's blades perform so well? I would guess that it is a combination of heat treatment, hand sharpened(minimal heat) and geometry with testing to optimize these factors for the different steels.

I have professional sharpening equipment, KMG grinder, diamond stones, etc. I don't think I am the only one that gets excited to sharpen a knife made from A2, O1, 1084, 1095, 52100, 13c26, AEB-L and kind of dread S30v or other more super wear resistant stainless steels. (I really like my S30V knife.)

I guess what I am trying to say is - Where is the talk about what compromises are being made? What degree edge is feasible? How thin can the blade be made for different uses?
Will it chip easily? Optimal RC hardness?

In steel discussions I get the most out of are less about comparisons with other steels, but about traits of the steel at different RC hardnesses, and how they hold up at different edge geometries, toughness etc.

Just some thoughts for the people that love to test steels.
 
David Metzger said:
A lot of variables.

RC hardness has a huge effect on how long an edge will last.

Blade thickness, grind and width behind edge are huge.

Is the steel able to support a 20 30 or a 40 degree edge? A thin edge will cut much easier but most steels will not behave well with such thin edges. What angle edge is the steel being tested?

And what about how the knife is sharpened? From what I have read by metal experts, it is not difficult to overheat an edge through grinding changing the RC - by manufacturer or user.

There is little talk about carbide size and what type of edge geometry this will allow.

I appreciate all the testing and read it with great excitement but with so many variables I take it all with great interest and a grain of salt. I actually love to learn what steels are used in manufacturing where maybe 1000's of cuts per hour are made.

David

A couple after thoughts. Why do Phil Wilson's blades perform so well? I would guess that it is a combination of heat treatment, hand sharpened(minimal heat) and geometry with testing to optimize these factors for the different steels.

I have professional sharpening equipment, KMG grinder, diamond stones, etc. I don't think I am the only one that gets excited to sharpen a knife made from A2, O1, 1084, 1095, 52100, 13c26, AEB-L and kind of dread S30v or other more super wear resistant stainless steels. (I really like my S30V knife.)

I guess what I am trying to say is - Where is the talk about what compromises are being made? What degree edge is feasible? How thin can the blade be made for different uses?
Will it chip easily? Optimal RC hardness?

In steel discussions I get the most out of are less about comparisons with other steels, but about traits of the steel at different RC hardnesses, and how they hold up at different edge geometries, toughness etc.

Just some thoughts for the people that love to test steels.
Click to expand...


Answer to what I bolded. :)

Yep, that is exactly right, optimal HT, tempering, blade geometry and design make for a blade that will perform well beyond belief for most people reading this thread. Phil Wilson is a master at what he does and I can say it just doesn't get better than that, he can make a steel do pretty much anything he wants and will work at it until it will.

Phil Wilson is truly a Master. :thumbup:
 
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Despite the 2 or 3 (dozen) wrong turns this thread has taken there has actually been quite a lot of good information.
 
So I just like to make it clear what CPM S60V you are talking about (because once you already misrepresent D2 referring to obviously failure in HT
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What the hell are you talking about? What D2 did I misrepresent "referring to obviously failure in HT" ? You make no sense whatsoever.
 
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As far as I understand, if you disagree with Vassilii, you are either misrepresenting, or worse, conspiring to push inferior products.
Back in the day, he was kind enough to write it off on your incompetence, but not anymore.
There is no other way...
 
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