First HI Kuk received, tested, and subsequently damaged.

What I think I would do in this situation (which may indicate that it's a bad idea :p) is take Yangdu up on her offer for a replacement, then go out and chop the same branch again with the new one. If the new one chips in the same way, then I'd pay Yangdu for the replacement, since both breakages are most likely my fault. But if the new one isn't damaged, or isn't damaged as severely, I'd write it up as a heat treat fault in the first one. Those chips do look pretty large to me, too.

Also, I'd probably recommend an axe, rather than a heavier khukuri, for any more chopping of seasoned wood. In my opinion, anyway, khukuris are better than axes for cutting live wood, but axes are better for dead, non-rotten wood that's been seasoned any longer than a few months.
 
javand, I have 4 HI Khuk's around here big enough for chopping duty. Every one of them has had a run in with a rock or metal fence or fence post or a lot of trees around here have old cattle fence that they have grown through (read hidden metal in the wood) all of them have rolled or nicked but have sharpened out with no problems. Being as it is your first HI knife don't be soured on the edge on this one the chipping out is unusual in our (collective) experience. I just removed a rose bush from an iron trellis with my Bahadur knife because of this thread I wasn't being particularly careful and trying to produce the kind of hits that caused your damage. Didn't happen, the edge is a little rough its now a somewhat dull serrated steak knife edge that will still slice and chop. I will need work the edge back out. Short of having Yangdu get or borrow a Rockwell hardness tester we may never know what exactly happened here. I'm leaning towards brittle edge but the next time I find a piece of seasoned & frozen hickory or hemlock I'm going after it with my 20" AK and as Cpl so eloquently put it the attitude that "makes trees pee them selves." Good luck
 
Ryan M said:
What I think I would do in this situation (which may indicate that it's a bad idea :p) is take Yangdu up on her offer for a replacement, then go out and chop the same branch again with the new one. If the new one chips in the same way, then I'd pay Yangdu for the replacement, since both breakages are most likely my fault. But if the new one isn't damaged, or isn't damaged as severely, I'd write it up as a heat treat fault in the first one. Those chips do look pretty large to me, too.

Also, I'd probably recommend an axe, rather than a heavier khukuri, for any more chopping of seasoned wood. In my opinion, anyway, khukuris are better than axes for cutting live wood, but axes are better for dead, non-rotten wood that's been seasoned any longer than a few months.
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I would second the axe idea, and add a saw to the list: light and reliable and very little skill needed to avoid accidents... But far less exciting than a two-handed, tear-shaped sirupati to use.
 
oldschool45 said:
javand, I have 4 HI Khuk's around here big enough for chopping duty. Every one of them has had a run in with a rock or metal fence or fence post or a lot of trees around here have old cattle fence that they have grown through (read hidden metal in the wood) all of them have rolled or nicked but have sharpened out with no problems. Being as it is your first HI knife don't be soured on the edge on this one the chipping out is unusual in our (collective) experience. I just removed a rose bush from an iron trellis with my Bahadur knife because of this thread I wasn't being particularly careful and trying to produce the kind of hits that caused your damage. Didn't happen, the edge is a little rough its now a somewhat dull serrated steak knife edge that will still slice and chop. I will need work the edge back out. Short of having Yangdu get or borrow a Rockwell hardness tester we may never know what exactly happened here. I'm leaning towards brittle edge but the next time I find a piece of seasoned & frozen hickory or hemlock I'm going after it with my 20" AK and as Cpl so eloquently put it the attitude that "makes trees pee them selves." Good luck
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Yeah I'm not turned off about the HI Khuk's at all. Yangdu is graciously ordering a similar sized Tamang a bit on the heavier side to replace the one that's chipped. I'll be going after the same branches with the new one as soon as it comes in. If that one chips well, I'll accept the losses and consider it a lesson.

Honestly I've been waiting on the DotD to see if there's anything new to shark. ;)
 
Thin blade or not, that's almost certainly the fault of a bad heat treat. I've used all of my HI kukris/products and have never had anything chip out... I've even hit the odd nail/rock with some of my blades but all they ever did was deform to varying degrees and were fixed with a good bit of straightening/filing/resharpening.

As for all the comments on the warranty: I go more by the "use within apparent limits" and "at Yangdu's discretion" as that seems to be more how HI does things. If what you were doing isn't considered abuse and it fails in the manner that it did, Aunty will know and will set things right. I will say this however: your usage of the Tamang is walking a thin line as far as "usage within apparent limits" goes... it's by far the thinnest full sized kukri in the HI lineup and using it to chop through thick hardwood is probably outside of it's intended usage. If that's your intended task for a kukri, I would recommend asking Aunty to trade in for something ~3/8" thick as that's a good compromise between weight and strength. I would say the WW2 or M43 would be perfect choices for your situation :thumbup:
 
This whole discussion makes me think of some of the thin old working khukuris that I've seen. Used for many decades, their blades were obviously not the same shape they were when they were forged. I imagine that they were chipped or edges rolled many times, and had many times seen a file or a grinding wheel to bring them back to shape. Even so, it seems to take a long, long time to use one up.

It also makes me wonder what Yangdu does with chipped blades. I wonder if they're crying in a khukuri orphanage somewhere waiting for a kind soul with a grinder and some work around the house for a lonely knife.
 
While I agree with the choosing of a khuk more appropriate for chopping duties, I am glad to hear that you're going to revisit the limb with your replacement javand. Even if that branch is that hard, expect to see more of a "dent" in the edge rather than the chipping that you experienced. I'm predicting different results from the replacement, and I'm sure you'll like your new Tamang.

This doesn't seem to be a "newer kami" issue since Vim made this Tamang. He has been with HI for quite a while, although he now works sporadically and whether at Bir-Gorkha or at his home shop I don't know. He usually does fine work, but he has been known to be inconsistent.

Lastly, and most importantly, good on Yandu!! She's gone through a rough year with Bir-Gorkha's problems with kami ilnesses and accidents, kami avialability and the Nepali electric grid. In a phone conversation she told me that at one point she thought HI might shut down this year. Now with the new kamis doing so well and the community here on the Forum growing, scarfing up the DOTDs and pulling together for the benefit of the kamis then this edge issue pops up. And as she always does, Yangdu stands up for us and for HI. Being the one between the manufacturer and the customer isn't always an easy thing and you have handled this most difficult year with grace. For my part, you have my respect and love Dear Yangdu.
 
All I know is my tamang is great for small "switch" sized saplings. Plus, it cuts like nobody's business.
For chopping, I use my Bonecutter or my cheapo Indo-khuk. The Indo-khuk is a hair thinner than the Tamang, and cost a LOT less, so if I roll or chip it, my feelings aren't hurt. My cheapie is the only one I'll baton.
If I need to cut seasoned wood, I have 4 chainsaws to choose from.

If I need to chop green wood that I may think is beyond a reasonable expectation for the Bonecutter, I have a Fiskars axe, 1 bow saw, and 3 pruning saws.
The Sawzall with a Skil "Ugly" blade makes short work of wood, too.

I want to make a meat cleaver from a piece of tractor-trailer leaf spring. The blade will be 1/2"-5/8" thick, with an edge grind like a cold chisel.
I could almost chop through granite with it. If I could find a team of gorillas to wield it for me.
 
stickfred said:
While I agree with the choosing of a khuk more appropriate for chopping duties, I am glad to hear that you're going to revisit the limb with your replacement javand. Even if that branch is that hard, expect to see more of a "dent" in the edge rather than the chipping that you experienced. I'm predicting different results from the replacement, and I'm sure you'll like your new Tamang.

This doesn't seem to be a "newer kami" issue since Vim made this Tamang. He has been with HI for quite a while, although he now works sporadically and whether at Bir-Gorkha or at his home shop I don't know. He usually does fine work, but he has been known to be inconsistent.

Lastly, and most importantly, good on Yandu!! She's gone through a rough year with Bir-Gorkha's problems with kami ilnesses and accidents, kami avialability and the Nepali electric grid. In a phone conversation she told me that at one point she thought HI might shut down this year. Now with the new kamis doing so well and the community here on the Forum growing, scarfing up the DOTDs and pulling together for the benefit of the kamis then this edge issue pops up. And as she always does, Yangdu stands up for us and for HI. Being the one between the manufacturer and the customer isn't always an easy thing and you have handled this most difficult year with grace. For my part, you have my respect and love Dear Yangdu.
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Aye, I've got no fear of reasonable damage from heavy use. The original tamang showed very mild edge mis-alignment below the "sweet spot" from the original blows on the branch that caused the chips, that seemed quite normal to me. It's just disconcerting to be able to use my 0.130 inch 12C27 neck knife to baton thru heavy gauge copper and Al wire, dig holes in rocky ground, and pry oysters out of volcanic rock, and point first baton medium diameter hardwoods by beating the pommel with a club enough to be able to kick them over, with no more than a ding or two, and then have the Tamang chip so significantly on branches that my $5 Harbor Freight Machete bounced right off of without any damage to the blade (admittedly there wasn't much damage to the limb either).

As I said originally, I wouldn't have returned it if there wasn't a reasonable chance of an issue particular to that Tamang. If I had been told that I pushed it beyond it's limits, I would have accepted that as just a mistake of judgement on my part in the purchase. However I feel 100% confident that the new one will rip those branches and much more to shreds. Honestly if it's as beefy as the first one was dimensionally, I'll be making every attempt to push it's limits, and I obviously won't be asking for a replacement regardless of the outcome.

I'll likely pick up a beefier chopper first chance I get, but I'm always going to be the type to try and push less to do more, I'll likely cause some collateral loss in the process. I'm ok with that.

Regardless, I'm 100% happy with the service thus-far from HI, I'm thrilled to be a part of the community, and to have access to such true and fundamental tools. I know the next Tamang is going to be a beast that I use for a very long time, if not till I die.
 
Welcome! Glad you discovered the Cantina. A BAS would fit your lighter-weight philosophy while letting you chop away.

John
 
Spectre said:
Welcome! Glad you discovered the Cantina. A BAS would fit your lighter-weight philosophy while letting you chop away.

John
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Spectre,

A Villager BAS would be right up my alley I think, thanks for the suggestion. Most likely the next piece of my burgeoning collection, and maybe a CAK after that. :cool:
 
Javand,

For a lighter, but strong khuk for hiking and such, I would certainly look into some of the shorties. I picked up a 12.5" Murali Ganga Ram Special/Bone Cutter. This is a hybrid he made and it likely won't be available again, but it is less than a pound and cuts waaaay above it's class. There's a short review of it which was written about two minths ago somewhere. you really would be amazed at how some of the really little khuks cut and chop. Small AKs and CAKs show up on the DOTD from time to time for a song, think less than $50, and might fit your needs perfectly. 12" at 3/8" is stought but very portable. Also, keep your eyes peeled for the release of the new/old stylr Bone Cutters. I'm waiting to try a 14"er. I have really fallen for my 12.5" GRS/BC. I think something along those lines could make you very happy. Good luck and make room, they multiply quickly.

Here's my "mini" in hand. It looks small, but cuts like a little chainsaw.
GRSBChand005.jpg
 
Regardless, I'm 100% happy with the service thus-far from HI, I'm thrilled to be a part of the community, and to have access to such true and fundamental tools. I know the next Tamang is going to be a beast that I use for a very long time, if not till I die.
Click to expand...

The service from HI is indeed the best. I also share your enthusiasm for having access to these tools. Knowing that they are hand manufactured by craftsmen also allows one to realize that they all can't be perfect. Your next Tamang will indeed probably last a couple lifetimes. Putting your HI to work for things it probably wasn't made for has been done by many others as long as HI has been around and with resounding success. Past testing by Cliff showed the toughness of these knives. I think Yvsa even had his AK Bowie cut through a 3/8" bolt once, IIRC.

We're glad to have you as part of the community, also, javand. This congenial group can always use more members to learn from, although I see from this mornings posts that a couple of long timers (Yvsa and Ferguson) are still sharing their wealth of experience and knowledge. I've picked up lots of gems of information here increasing my understanding of things regarding my inner and outer worlds. I like the karma here. I hope that you do too.
 
Hmm. I don't think that should happen with 5160 no matter what... I've had mine dent a wee bit in non-belly areas but that's to be expected-the blades are zone hardened.
 
Howard Wallace said:
This whole discussion makes me think of some of the thin old working khukuris that I've seen. Used for many decades, their blades were obviously not the same shape they were when they were forged.
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I have a Ganga Ram like that.

It's a little soft but a little soft khuk can be repaired. It has only rolled a couple times on real hard stuff and I just took an anvil and brass hammer and beat it back in shape and re sharpened and it is fine.

One time I hung up my chainsaw in a tree. I used the Ganga to chop the chainsaw out of the tree. The blade was hitting the hardened chainsaw chain and when I was done the blade looked partially serrated.:D

It didn't chip just the chainsaw chain was harder. Anyway the good thing about it is it WAS hardened FAIRLY well so the damage done by the chain wasn't that DEEP maybe 1/8" so I took a belt sander and basically just ground the blade back to where the missing metal was gone. Then I used a hammer and anvil to pound the bent part back and re sharpened.

It's a little thinner than your typical ganga blade but there was still a lot of tempered metal to work with and I have used it many many times since on stuff where the edge might take a beating because being soft it's easy to fix:thumbup:

In contrast a brittle blade is harder to fix but the the closer it gets to brittle the less it will roll so really erring on the side of slightly soft is probably better.
 
I just picked up a 16.5" AK from another BF member, and took it out to the hard as rock seasoned oak that I had problems with my giant Tamang on.

It was an interesting comparison. It's obvious to me that the Tamang had some issues now, because after chopping thru multiple branches, the AK didn't even appear to lose sharpness at all, let alone dent or chip.

The difference however; The chopping work was much slower. I'm guessing it's the more dramatic taper of the blade thickness of the AK.

This AK is a little shorter than the Tamang, but around the same wt, spine thickness is about equal. All in all I still prefer the Tamang geometry, I can't wait to get the new custom one Yangdu is having made for me. Also the handle on this AK (horn), is much smaller, and more oval shaped than the Tamang I had previously, I preferred the thicker handle. Still, the AK is beautiful, and I really like it, I can definitely see that there's alot of variation between one style to the next, and even each model of each style.

Wish we had a pass-around for user Khuks so that we could try some different ones out and maybe do some trades. I'm probably going to have to buy a ton of these. =\
 
javand said:
...
It was an interesting comparison. It's obvious to me that the Tamang had some issues now, because after chopping thru multiple branches, the AK didn't even appear to lose sharpness at all, let alone dent or chip.

The difference however; The chopping work was much slower. I'm guessing it's the more dramatic taper of the blade thickness of the AK.

This AK is a little shorter than the Tamang, but around the same wt, spine thickness is about equal. ...
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shorter can equal slower i find. harder to get the snap and momentum to generate deep cuts.

amazing what good steel and a heat treat can do though right?

i had a Bushman GAK (samsher) that absolutely ROCKED on frozen years season 8+ inch thick logs. probably all out of proportion to it's size/weight. perhaps i should have kept it, but well, it got a really good home, and i prefer my bonecutters instead. now those things are just scary.


Bladite
 
Yeah, looking at the Bonecutter's with that long sweet spot and slow curve to the tip, I can see how they'd be chopping machines. I haven't cared for the aesthetic of the ones I've seen pop up recently, but I'm thinking I might need to find a place in my heart for one considering the utility.

Yeah the steel is incredible, I may try to narrow up the edge profile a bit and see if I can get a bit deeper bite out of this AK.



Bladite said:
shorter can equal slower i find. harder to get the snap and momentum to generate deep cuts.

amazing what good steel and a heat treat can do though right?

i had a Bushman GAK (samsher) that absolutely ROCKED on frozen years season 8+ inch thick logs. probably all out of proportion to it's size/weight. perhaps i should have kept it, but well, it got a really good home, and i prefer my bonecutters instead. now those things are just scary.


Bladite
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