Great Eastern Cutlery Availability, Dealers, "Drops", Etc.: A Place for People to Vent

[bonky]

I'm kind of with you on this - kind of.

I am in full support of Mike's decision with limiting it to one per household. That said, it comes with inevitable side effects that I am considerably less excited about. The collectors in us all will undoubtedly be keen on obtaining more than one variant from this run which means we have, with some certainty, been forced to pay inflated secondary pricing.

Does this practice curb the flippers? Perhaps. But perhaps not. I am sure there will be plenty of folks seeking to offload their single selection for a healthy markup as soon as they get it in hand. Unfortunately, it is the nature of the beast at this point and there is naught that anyone can really do, including Mike, to genuinely hamper these practices. The folks in question care nothing for the knives themselves or the community, you can't really fix that.

It is nice to say that one per household is for the good of the community and perhaps, in spirit, I can agree. But I know the reality of it. Look at how many dealers limited the 93s to one per household and then look at how many were immediately posted for ridiculous markups afterwards. It feels nice to say, "one per household, fair shake and all", but it hasn't proven to work like that.

I think the best Mike could do is limit his SFO to a single cover variant and THEN limit it to one per household. Less desirable for a collector perhaps but it gets the knives into more appreciative hands nonetheless.

I appreciate the thought and effort that you have put into your reply, but can you really expect a dealer to go through that?

I think that it's admirable that Mike has gone to the lengths he has already to make things as fair as possible.


Mike was spending money out of his own profits to fund his reservation system. Think about that for a minute. How many vendors do that?

I think that fact stands on its own merit.


Mike is MY first choice, every time. Whether or not you choose to be a customer is up to you, but in my experience you won't find a better vendor.

 

[kamagong]

The collectors in us all will undoubtedly be keen on obtaining more than one variant from this run which means we have, with some certainty, been forced to pay inflated secondary pricing.

Not all of us are collectors. Some of us just like knives and end up accumulating a bunch over the years. I myself have little interest in GECs as collectibles. I simply want a fine cutting tool, made with care and pride the way they used to be. Admittedly I am particular and only want specific models, making things a bit touch and go when I see a knife I desire.

I had the opportunity to get the lamb foot in both cover materials. I declined. I chose the knife in the material I wanted, and left the ebony for others. Like I said collectibles have little interest for me.

Buying multiple variants of a run reduces the supply, which in turn leads to an increase in price. It's basic economics. Anyone who engages in such behavior contributes to the phenomenon, so they really don't have a leg to stand on when complaining about inflated secondary pricing.

 

[Pàdruig]

I appreciate the thought and effort that you have put into your reply, but can you really expect a dealer to go through that?

I think that it's admirable that Mike has gone to the lengths he has already to make things as fair as possible.


Mike was spending money out of his own profits to fund his reservation system. Think about that for a minute. How many vendors do that?

I think that fact stands on its own merit.


Mike is MY first choice, every time. Whether or not you choose to be a customer is up to you, but in my experience you won't find a better vendor.

I think you are misunderstanding the point I was trying to make. But I guess I will ask you to clarify, which part of my response are you referring to when you ask what I am expecting from a dealer?

I have been a steady and loyal customer of Mike's since I became aware of his business and Early Reserve system, which has been a couple of years now. I am also very well aware of the efforts Mike has put into ensuring fairness and I have been a staunch advocate of his when his integrity has been challenged rather ruthlessly. Because of my background and expertise (software engineer), I have a pretty good idea of the hurdles, investment, and time that is required to implement and maintain the sort of system he has implemented on his site. I also appreciate his efforts in engaging with the community, especially when issues like what is being discussed here are brought up.

All that to say, Mike is also my go to dealer and he gets the bulk of my business and will continue to do so unless some unforeseen circumstance (either on my end or his) renders our relationship no longer beneficial.

If I were to summarize my point that you are addressing: There is no clear solution to the flipping problem, Mike's efforts are appreciated but I think even he will admit, they can't please everybody, and there will be unintended side effects as the result of any sort of "solution". My comments at the conclusion of my statement above were more an observation of what could possible work out the best but it was certainly not a serious suggestion.

I am going to have to include disclaimers with my posts more often, I think.

 

[LastRodeo]

Not all of us are collectors. Some of us just like knives and end up accumulating a bunch over the years. I myself have little interest in GECs as collectibles. I simply want a fine cutting tool, made with care and pride the way they used to be. Admittedly I am particular and only want specific models, making things a bit touch and go when I see a knife I desire.

I had the opportunity to get the lamb foot in both cover materials. I declined. I chose the knife in the material I wanted, and left the ebony for others. Like I said collectibles have little interest for me.

Buying multiple variants of a run reduces the supply, which in turn leads to an increase in price. It's basic economics. Anyone who engages in such behavior contributes to the phenomenon, so they really don't have a leg to stand on when complaining about inflated secondary pricing.

Accumulating a bunch of anything is by definition collecting. I don’t mean to be pedantic, but I have seen this before where people don’t want to be classified as collectors, when in reality the term only means to have a bunch of something.

 

[Pàdruig]

Not all of us are collectors. Some of us just like knives and end up accumulating a bunch over the years. I myself have little interest in GECs as collectibles. I simply want a fine cutting tool, made with care and pride the way they used to be. Admittedly I am particular and only want specific models, making things a bit touch and go when I see a knife I desire.

I had the opportunity to get the lamb foot in both cover materials. I declined. I chose the knife in the material I wanted, and left the ebony for others. Like I said collectibles have little interest for me.

Buying multiple variants of a run reduces the supply, which in turn leads to an increase in price. It's basic economics. Anyone who engages in such behavior contributes to the phenomenon, so they really don't have a leg to stand on when complaining about inflated secondary pricing.

I get what you are saying, I really do. However, you represent only one facet of the industry and hobby where there are many.

I will use myself as an example. Two out of the four cover options on this upcoming 77 run interest me because they happen to be my favorite cover materials. However, I can only choose one. If there aren't any of my first choice available when it comes my turn to purchase, then I can only hope that my second choice is available. One of them, I can get at retail, the other I can almost guarantee that I will have to pay a heavily inflated secondary market price if I were to seek to obtain it. My own principles dictate that I will not be paying that price regardless. I don't sell for heavily inflated prices and I don't buy at heavily inflated prices. But that is just me.

There are collectors, there are users, there are Instagramers, there are flippers, and there are folks like me - someone who falls kind of in between a collector and a user. My comments should not be taken as complaints, merely me just trying to add perspective and nuance to a conversation that is likely going to continue until we go to our graves and then some.

 

[kamagong]

Accumulating a bunch of anything is by definition collecting. I don’t mean to be pedantic, but I have seen this before where people don’t want to be classified as collectors, when in reality the term only means to have a bunch of something.

They are related, but they're not the same. @pmew, who at one time nearly had every GEC #25 made save three, was a collector of the pattern. Charlie, who seeks out and research different versions of the harness jack, is a collector.

I, on the other hand, am just a guy who likes knives. It's entirely normal for people to get and accumulate things they like. My perspective on knives is that they are useful tools that are also eminently cool. They are like socks to me; who doesn't have a drawerful of them? I'm not the guy who has 5000 records in his music room.

I get what you are saying, I really do. However, you represent only one facet of the industry and hobby where there are many.

I will use myself as an example. Two out of the four cover options on this upcoming 77 run interest me because they happen to be my favorite cover materials. However, I can only choose one. If there aren't any of my first choice available when it comes my turn to purchase, then I can only hope that my second choice is available. One of them, I can get at retail, the other I can almost guarantee that I will have to pay a heavily inflated secondary market price if I were to seek to obtain it. My own principles dictate that I will not be paying that price regardless. I don't sell for heavily inflated prices and I don't buy at heavily inflated prices. But that is just me.

There are collectors, there are users, there are Instagramers, there are flippers, and there are folks like me - someone who falls kind of in between a collector and a user. My comments should not be taken as complaints, merely me just trying to add perspective and nuance to a conversation that is likely going to continue until we go to our graves and then some.

You're right, it is a nuanced conversation. I shouldn't have used the word complain. But the point is, it's not users versus collectors vs flippers. It's much more complex than that.​

 

[Pàdruig]

But the point is, it's not users versus collectors vs flippers. It's much more complex than that.​

On that point, we can absolutely agree.

 

[LastRodeo]

They are related, but they're not the same. @pmew, who at one time nearly had every GEC #25 made save three, was a collector of the pattern. Charlie, who seeks out and research different versions of the harness jack, is a collector.

I, on the other hand, am just a guy who likes knives. It's entirely normal for people to get and accumulate things they like. My perspective on knives is that they are useful tools that are also eminently cool. They are like socks to me; who doesn't have a drawerful of them? I'm not the guy who has 5000 records in his music room.

You're right, it is a nuanced conversation. I shouldn't have used the word complain. But the point is, it's not users versus collectors vs flippers. It's much more complex than that.​

The true definition is far less stringent than you apply to it. My grampa collected matchbooks from hotels he stayed in (he traveled for work and pleasure). Some he used when needed to light his cigars or whatnot. Did he think they had some intrinsic value beyond being useful, nope. Did he think they were eminently cool? You bet or he wouldn’t have collected them.

 

[kamagong]

Did he collect socks as well? Because as I said, that's how I think of knives. I buy them both from time to time, ending up with a bunch. It isn't a collection to me.

Now if you say he collected socks, that we all collect socks, then I will concede the point.

 

[LastRodeo]

Did he collect socks as well? Because as I said, that's how I think of knives. I buy them both from time to time, ending up with a bunch. It isn't a collection to me.

Now if you say he collected socks, that we all collect socks, then I will concede the point.

You said you thought knives are eminently cool. If you think your socks are eminently cool, I will concede your point.

 

[kamagong]

You said you thought knives are eminently cool. If you think your socks are eminently cool, I will concede your point.

I said knives were "also eminently cool." I first said they were useful.

I do have some eminently cool socks though.

 

[LastRodeo]

I said knives were "also eminently cool." I first said they were useful.

I do have some eminently cool socks though.

Okay, my grandpa collected socks also.
Thank you for conceeding you are a collector.

 

[knifeswapper]

I think there are many solutions to any given problem - it is the folks that will concur that shifts dramatically.

For example, I did not announce ahead of time that the reservation would be only a "I'm In" reservation and selection would occur in turn. Because there are indications that since this reserve those folks that I know / suspect are flippers (and even some good customers); are setting up multiple accounts in order to skirt the next drop. Folks even go as far as to submit their reservation - log out and log back in as their friend who is inaccessible at the moment - and submit another reservation for them. In rather quick fashion I might add.

The cheapest thing for me to do, is to line up my 100 top customers and privately give them an opportunity to reserve whatever they want and then open the rest to the public - allowing as many multiple knife orders as possible. I may start saving the hate emails I get and just show how the same people will change their recommendations and condemnations with every drop

(I don't take anything said here as negative, it is a good conversation. But I have not had an SFO drop in 3 years where someone swore they would never buy another knife from me.)

 

[r8shell]

I think there are many solutions to any given problem - it is the folks that will concur that shifts dramatically.

For example, I did not announce ahead of time that the reservation would be only a "I'm In" reservation and selection would occur in turn. Because there are indications that since this reserve those folks that I know / suspect are flippers (and even some good customers); are setting up multiple accounts in order to skirt the next drop. Folks even go as far as to submit their reservation - log out and log back in as their friend who is inaccessible at the moment - and submit another reservation for them. In rather quick fashion I might add.

The cheapest thing for me to do, is to line up my 100 top customers and privately give them an opportunity to reserve whatever they want and then open the rest to the public - allowing as many multiple knife orders as possible. I may start saving the hate emails I get and just show how the same people will change their recommendations and condemnations with every drop

(I don't take anything said here as negative, it is a good conversation. But I have not had an SFO drop in 3 years where someone swore they would never buy another knife from me.)

You should do whatever works best for you. Sadly, I'll never be one of your top 100, as I can only afford to buy a couple GECs per year. For what it's worth, I like your early reserve system. I've been anxiously awaiting the #29 Humpback, and I can relax and enjoy the anticipation knowing I have one reserved.

 

[Mayonardo]

I think there are many solutions to any given problem - it is the folks that will concur that shifts dramatically.

For example, I did not announce ahead of time that the reservation would be only a "I'm In" reservation and selection would occur in turn. Because there are indications that since this reserve those folks that I know / suspect are flippers (and even some good customers); are setting up multiple accounts in order to skirt the next drop. Folks even go as far as to submit their reservation - log out and log back in as their friend who is inaccessible at the moment - and submit another reservation for them. In rather quick fashion I might add.

The cheapest thing for me to do, is to line up my 100 top customers and privately give them an opportunity to reserve whatever they want and then open the rest to the public - allowing as many multiple knife orders as possible. I may start saving the hate emails I get and just show how the same people will change their recommendations and condemnations with every drop

(I don't take anything said here as negative, it is a good conversation. But I have not had an SFO drop in 3 years where someone swore they would never buy another knife from me.)

As someone said, and I believe, there is no simple solution to complex problems. I think from your perspective, and that is the one that counts, treating your best customers like they are your best customers and giving them first choice is an excellent way to deal with this issue. There is no realistic way to prevent so-called “flippers” from operating. Best to deal fairly with your good, repeat customers (I can’t include myself in that group being relatively new to Great Eastern Cutlery) and not try to solve the entire, complex problem.

 

[LastRodeo]

You should do whatever works best for you. Sadly, I'll never be one of your top 100, as I can only afford to buy a couple GECs per year. For what it's worth, I like your early reserve system. I've been anxiously awaiting the #29 Humpback, and I can relax and enjoy the anticipation knowing I have one reserved.

Mike said his top customers, not those who bought the most. I don’t want to speak for him, but I would guess he values a long time loyal customer who he knows doesn’t flip, over someone that buys a ton of knives and then puts them all on eBay.

 

[GE Jr]

I'm feeling grateful to have gotten in on time for a 77 Barlow reserve. Fingers crossed for a choice!
Hopefully someday in the not-too-distant future, GEC will raise the 500pc cap on SFO's. Thinking that would make things better for everyone.

 

[gaj999]

I'm feeling grateful to have gotten in on time for a 77 Barlow reserve. Fingers crossed for a choice!
Hopefully someday in the not-too-distant future, GEC will raise the 500pc cap on SFO's. Thinking that would make things better for everyone.

I think if Charlie had done his run of 500 with only one cover, there would have been a lot more people who could have gotten one. A run of 500 split into 300 and 200 is essentially a run of 300, since so many people want every knife model in every cover. Add on that the lolly scramble is uncertain so folks sign up early at multiple vendors, some ending up with six knives, and it only makes the problem worse. So if GEC raises the limit to 1000 and Charlie does 4 covers, the knives will actually be harder to get. Not what you might expect. I personally would rather see GEC stop doing SFOs altogether. If they also cut back on the number of cover materials, I predict that the shortages would end. And yes, I do understand why it wouldn't be in GEC's best interest to do either.

 

[brownshoe]

Greed and envy is what this 16 page thread is about.

The dealers and GEC are as happy as clams, laughing at y'all on their way to the bank. Maybe next time they'll up the price on those 1095 blades and keep some of the aftermarket gravy for themselves. Y'all bitch about aftermarket prices, ever think about the markup behind the dealer price...

 

[r8shell]

Greed and envy is what this 16 page thread is about.

The dealers and GEC are as happy as clams, laughing at y'all on their way to the bank. Maybe next time they'll up the price on those 1095 blades and keep some of the aftermarket gravy for themselves. Y'all bitch about aftermarket prices, ever think about the markup behind the dealer price...

No. I don't ever think about the markup behind the dealer price. Not any more than I think about the wholesale price of any goods that I purchase through a retail outlet. I mean, if the grocery store sold eggs for the same price they bought them for, how would they pay their employees?

I learned about capitalism in elementary school.