I Spy

OK, OK, a slight exageration on the $200 custom. But if you want to get technical, I could go to the Phillipines and get a 'truley custom' balisong for less than $10.

I also want you all to understand, I'm not just whining. This isn't just a kid saying "Why can't I have a really really good balisong cheap? I waaaant one." I'm serious about this. If I thought that I could make a difference, or if I'd even be taken seriously, I'd draw up some plans, spend a month in my shop and make a prototype. Then I'd visit different companies that could legally produce them and see if they would consider it. Or at least I'd try to convince a company that already does make a nearly decent bali (Bear or Jag come to mind) to get their act together and start making a much needed addition to the world of balis. But as I'm not known in the knife world, and very young as well, I'd probably just be laughed at if I wasn't ignored all together.

I also appologize Chuck, for turning the thread with your exciting news into a discussion about economics and my old argument for a better mid-priced bali.
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Disco Stu:
OK, OK, a slight exageration on the $200 custom. But if you want to get technical, I could go to the Phillipines and get a 'truley custom' balisong for less than $10.</font>
Click to expand...

And the plane ticket?

Jeeeeezus...I would love to have a mid range Bali too. But my God, this is way too much convoluted reasoning for me.


------------------
"You are no more armed because you are wearing a pistol than you are a musician because you own a guitar." ~Jeff Cooper
And the same goes for a knife...
And, I'm a Usual Suspect.

Offer me solutions, offer me alternatives and I decline. It's the end of the world as we know it...and I feel fine. ~Stipe
 
Considering what I've paid for various knives, including some pretty sweet balisongs, IMHO $150 or so for a nice, solid folding knife is a steal!!! You get what you pay for.......... I'd rather go without than end up with some POS that came apart after a day or two.
 
Quote:

All I have to say is, where can I get a truly Custom BaliSong for $200.00?

The MT promises to be that quality for that price, but as of right now, I know of no one
who is offering a Custom BaliSong starting at $200.00
-----------------------------------------------
Well, that's exactly what I'm talking about!!
I'll post more as info comes in.

 
If you would like, send me an email and I'll give you the email addy for a guy who said he would build me a custom balisong for <$200. At the time we discussed this, I think I was talking weehawk blade, skeletonized SS handles of his design, standard latch, and torx construction. Might have had the weehawk tanto discussed under this price but I'm not sure.

Anyways, I know a guy who says he can do it. I have never seen one of his knives in person, and therefore cannot personally guarantee satisfaction, but I can give you the option.
 
Chuck,
Are the stainless handled production ones the guys from ----- against the wall? I got the impression they'd be ready in less than a month. If yes, I think they said they would make the latch movable. They were simply but soundly made folks, and as Chuck says, worth it in todays market. Thanks for your help with the BM 30.

------------------
Please take your seats gentlemen; oh, and flip 'em if you've got 'em.
 
I don't know if his prices have changed, but Mr. Dabruski had quoted me prices in this area. Everyone seemed pretty impressed with his work.
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Chuck, are you saying that the BM44, 45 or 48 are of low quality.</font>
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Sacrilege!

Wash your mouth out with soap for even suggesting it! And not that girly soap with peaches, honey, and oatmeal. I'm talking about real, manly soap -- soap with pumice and coal tar oil in it!

IMO, the BM45 is the best production balisong ever made bar none! When I heard of the upcoming discontinuation, I went out and bought a lifetime supply.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Are the stainless handled production ones the guys from ----- against the wall?</font>
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He made the prototypes, yes. However, I have it on authority that production is still a few months off. Oh well, what's a few months? It's a very sturdy, well-made balisong and very attractive. It's going to be a very good alternative to the BM42 since it is a heavier knife and has the thicker handles. If you don't like the weight or the thickness of the 42, and I know that some of you don't, then this will be a great alternative for you at a competitive price point.

I have not, despite some appearances to the contrary, seen every custom balisong being offered. The good, desirable ones I've seen seem to start at about $350. Making a balisong is really a lot of work. You pretty much need a milling machine which is a very expensive piece of gear, and a good drill press too. Running a milling machine is skilled work and people who can do it well can make top dollar. So, while again I haven't seen everything out there and am always open to a pleasant surprise, I'd be initially skeptical of any custom selling significantly below the market average. When something is selling well below the market average for similar things, you've either found a bargain or something cheap.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">I am looking around in amazement at some folks, talking about knives over $100.00 like they are talking about a dirty toilet seat or something...

Folks, whatever you do, don't go to a major Knife Show... </font>
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Exactly! While there are notable exceptions (the BM AFCK streets a little below $100), most decent folders these days are above $100.

There are brand new automobiles you can buy for about $6000. But, good quality new cars, new cars that don't need separate runs for their zero-to-sixty and their quarter-mile tests, new cars that might protect you in an accident, start about about $20,000 these days with a few decent, even nice, exceptions a bit lower.

Knives are much the same. Yes, there are folding knives you can buy for well under $100, but good folding knives, a knife that can take and hold a good edge, a knife with a lock that isn't likely to fail, a knife that might protect you in an "accident", start at about $100 these days with a few decent, even nice, exceptions a bit lower.

$125 for the BM42 (and you can find 'em cheaper if you shop around, $125 is just an average price) is a great buy if you want an great balisong and a great buy if you want a great folding knife.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">If the Sebenza is the best prod folder, then the LCC/MA is certainly the second best.</font>
Click to expand...

Both have reported lock failures.




------------------
Chuck
Balisongs -- because it don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing!
http://www.balisongcollector.com
 
Chuck--could you point me in the direction of a thread with the reported failure of the Sebenza? I'm not being skeptical, just curious as I have not seen this(these) report(s) before and currently have a Sebbie riding in my pocket at work every day. I would certainly like to know if this is a somewhat possible happening, or if it was just an isolated event that occured in a rather extreme circumstance.

I may have to switch over to that new axis lock yet.
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">IMO, the BM45 is the best production balisong ever made bar none! When I heard of the upcoming discontinuation, I went out and bought a lifetime supply.
</font>
Click to expand...

Straight from the mouth of one of the most respected men in the bali world. I don't want to hear then, from anyone, that a good balisong can't be produced at a reasonable price since it seems that the best production balisong ever, and since Mr. Gollnick has said that the bali is one of the strongest folding designs, the best production folder ever was indeed that.

And what the HELL are you people calling decent folders? I don't know about you guys who clearly have the money to buy the best of the best and then throw them away, but I have only ever bought a few knives over $100 and I haven't experienced any knives falling apart on me spontaniously. I don't often use my knives hard. I use them for cutting the occasional potato chip bag open and as fingernail clippers half the time. As of today, I have yet to find one potato chip bag that any of my detestable sub-$100 folders wouldn't cut. I've have several Spydies, a couple from CRKT, a few from Buck and Cold Steel among others. All cost me under $100. In some cases quite a bit less. And not one of them has failed to cut through that plastic bag. You know, people who take care of their knives don't need $200 folders to take severe abuse. Although I'd put my $50 Spyderco Rookie up against many of your higher-priced folders any day.

I'm not even going to argue the point that some of us don't have much money at the moment as those of you who are taking up the contrary possition clearly don't remember what it's like to have no money and very little way to get some. But I will say that in my experience, to many people there is also a mental barrier at $100. Anything above that is considerd a semi-major purchase. Since it seems that no companies want to make a good sub-$100 bali, does that mean that they are consiously trying to create an elitism among users? I should hope that's not it.

BTW Don, I know a few guys in the Phillipines that would mail me a couple balis if I asked nicely enough. And it was only an example anyway. Besides, I believe others have made my point. There are in fact a few makers out there with starting prices at very little over $200.
 
Hey Man,

Look, I want to buy a house, I can't afford it. I'm not going to bitch that they should make cheaper houses. They're already so cheaply constructed in Maryland that you have to pay $500,000.00 to get a decent, new home.

I believe what Chuck says is correct, I would expand on that further and say that the 44, 45 and 48 were the finest. They were in the same series with different blades of course.

Stu,

I think you are misunderstanding what I am saying Man.

I really mean this. If I could make one Man in this whole Industry do one thing, it would be for Les DeAsis to bring back that particular line of BaliSongs. If I could some how, some way, convince him to do that, I think that would be great, don't you?

I would love to see that happen. I think Benchmade made a big mistake getting rid of that line of knives and I think not producing them again is an equally big mistake because I think they are going to see the #42 stall in mid-air if in fact MT starts producing Butterfly Knives and at least two other Manufacturers do as well.

All I can say is, I hope that does happen. The BM #42 will possibly drop in price then too.

I don't know.



------------------
"You are no more armed because you are wearing a pistol than you are a musician because you own a guitar." ~Jeff Cooper
And the same goes for a knife...
And, I'm a Usual Suspect.

Offer me solutions, offer me alternatives and I decline. It's the end of the world as we know it...and I feel fine. ~Stipe
 
I agree that would be dynamite, but you're telling me to stop complaining because either it ain't gonna happen or it will. That's not the way I work. I'd rather raise Hell 'till I see action or bleeding ears. And in the mean time I wouldn't buy that $500,000 house I move to the Phillipines and buy one for $1000.
smile.gif
 
Chuck, I apologise for my part in continuing the economic slant this thread has taken, both in my previous post and in what will follow here. I imagine you've been dismayed (or at least disappointed) that not everyone here has been as excited by the news that started this whole mess as they ought to be. The potential here is good for everyone, it's unfortunate that not everyone can see it.

---
Bottom line: Healthy competition in business is a good thing. It keeps businesses more honest, and prices lower. How? When a company has to worry about what their competition is doing, there's incentive to do a number of things, like: provide a product of equal quality at a lower price; provide a slightly better or slightly lower quality product at a nearly equal price; provide a much higher quality product at a higher price (like happens in the sports/luxury car worlds); or provide a significantly lower quality product at a much lower price. It all depends on the strategy a company adopts, and whether they feel that high quality/high price, and selling fewer units, is a better (or worse) idea than selling a higher volume of lower-priced units - what brings in the greatest returns, and whether the company is thinking in the long- or the short-term.

At the moment, BM has virtually no competition in the balisong market. Jaguar & Bear/MGC, the next closest thing, don't count - it would be like comparing the price & quality of a VW Westfalia camper van with a Porsche 911 - they've focussed on a different end of the market. The problem in the balisong market right now is that there are no Audi's, so to speak. With the MT bali on the way, and other un-named companies showing interest in this weird corner of the knife market, it means that soon BM will have competition. Ultimately, this will mean a general improvement in the quality and price of what's available. And that's a good thing.

As far as "elitism" goes ... According to government studies, what I get paid should be just enough to live on, just enough to cover housing, food, transportation, clothing. And, taking into consideration the occasional financial emergency, which bites into the tiny bit of "play" coinage left over, it did take me a while to save up enough to be able to afford a 42. Two years ago, I was in dire financial straits, and after paying rent, found myself with a mere $50 to live on for the month. It wasn't fun. I also wasn't considering spending any money I didn't absolutely have to, because to have done so would have been irresponsible and stupid. I do know what's it's like.

Still on the "elitism" train ... Over the last year, I've picked up a half dozen balisongs. Some CC's and a Jag (back in August), a PC 259 a short while ago, and a BM 42 (arrived just last week). The CC's & Jag were beaten into irrepairable uselessness by Xmas, and together, cost near the same amount as the 42. There is no doubt in my mind that the 42 will last more than 8 months. On that basis alone, it makes the 42 well worth the price paid.

Also take into account that $70 fifteen, ten, even five years ago held a different value than $70 now. $70 in, say, 1987, held about the same value as approximately $100-$110 today.

One final word ... Who is John Galt?
-----
Again, thanks Chuck for sharing this news. It's GREAT!

Flying over your house ...
Jon (not Galt, but I think we're related)

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'Scuse me while I flip this out ...
 
Stu,

Man, you can go on all you want because Les deAsis does what he wants to.

On a brighter note, anyone that wants a 42, I can get them for $100.00 even, plus what it would cost me to ship it to you. Don't ask me to ship you one to a State where they are illegal, I won't do that.



------------------
"You are no more armed because you are wearing a pistol than you are a musician because you own a guitar." ~Jeff Cooper
And the same goes for a knife...
And, I'm a Usual Suspect.

Offer me solutions, offer me alternatives and I decline. It's the end of the world as we know it...and I feel fine. ~Stipe
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Gollnick:
Here are photos of prototypes of what will probably be the next production balisong to hit the market. The handles are solid Stainless Steel though Damascus and Ti are in the works.

If you like heavy, you're gonna love these. If you like wider handles (a la the older Jags), you're gonna love these. And, if you just want a tough-as-nails, heavy-duty balisong, you're really gonna love these.

Target price is about $150 retail. Availability in about three or four months. I can say nothing more.

spy1.JPG


spy2.JPG


</font>
Click to expand...

I fully intend on getting two of these when I can afford it!



------------------
"You are no more armed because you are wearing a pistol than you are a musician because you own a guitar." ~Jeff Cooper
And the same goes for a knife...
And, I'm a Usual Suspect.

Offer me solutions, offer me alternatives and I decline. It's the end of the world as we know it...and I feel fine. ~Stipe
 
$150 sounds like a good deal to me. I want a wee hawk tanto though
smile.gif

Stu, remember that the BM42 retails for around $160. What it is actually selling for via internet shops is $120-$150. You can find them for less on the secondary market if you look and are fast into action. I know because both of mine were purchased for around $100 (BM42A and 42 Pre Production!)
Once these become more available, the price will drop a little as the supply increases.
And thanks to the forum you will be able to buy them in the for sale section for a good price.
 
Chuck is, of course, right about some lock failures on both the Sebenza and the LCC, something one will not experience with a bali.

I have no idea what the return rate for lock failure is for either knife. Presumably less for the Sebenza. This can and does happen with custom liner locks also. Nevertheless, I like good strong liner locks, and test them to my satisfaction before using. If it fails it is returned. A liner lock which is designed and fitted correctly will work to my satisfaction.

In an earlier post above I referred to some problems witm BM custom bali's before they were discontinued. Just to clarify, I was referring to the '96-'97 period when they stopped taking open orders and prior to the inception of the 25 per year limited series. Oh yeah I have a note here, the info came from Roberta at x102.

As for prices for custom bali's from makers, the only maker I talked to was Erickson about the same time, and I think his starting price then was above the 200-400 range which has been mentioned in some posts above.

Just for fun, and to put custom bali prices in some perspective, I have my 96-97 BM catalog and custom bali price list in front of me.

The pricing then was as follows:

4" blade, skeletonized satin finish handles
275 - 300 depending on blade shape
kriss blades 375
Ti handles an additional 100

4" blade, mirror polished handles with inserts
375 - 400 depending on blade shape
kriss blades 475

Specs:
blade material ATS-34 59-61 RC
blade thickness .175
overall 9.25"
closed 5.25"
weight 7.8 oz. drilled, 8.0 oz. with inserts
handle material 303 stainless

What do you think they would be now?

Anyway, I like the idea of someone filling the void left by BM by producing a heavier wider stainless handle bali. I would prefer a blade material other than Sandvick. And distancing themselves from BM with a different hole pattern is wise. I would also like to see a blade shape other than a weehawk.

Later

Ron
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Don Rearic:
Stu,

Man, you can go on all you want because Les deAsis does what he wants to.
</font>
Click to expand...

Oh, I wasn't planning on BM listening to me. I don't think they do much listening to anyone. I'd like to see new players come into the game. The Microtech news for instance excited me even if I'm not a big fan of Mircotech. Maybe once we get some more info and better pictures of this new secret bali I'll be excited about that. But I've never thought for a second that BM would start making their old models again just to suit me.
 
In this thread and countless others the $70 bali has been requested over and over.

In the past I skipped over those posts.

But it now occurs to me that there may be a sizable market for such a knife. So I wonder if something better than the breakable cheapos, without new high tech innovations or adornments can be done.

For example, a flat ground Sandvick blade, flat strong undrilled handles, good strong pins, and a non-reversable non-removable latch.

Come to think of it, how important is the latch anyway? Many highly experienced bali users either remove it or order a custom without it.

Any opinions?
 
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