Issue with member “Archer59”

[HappyDaddy]

I agree this buyer is a jerk, but this wasn't a mystery box, nor was it described as such. This was described and sold as a knife, new in box. He wasn't selling the box with the chance to get something inside he was selling the product.

You cannot absolve yourself of responsibility by failing to inspect a product. That's clearly the seller dropping the ball. The buyer still has every reason and right to expect a new in box knife without defects.

The argument you're making is that it would be the buyer's fault if he opened the box and it turned out to be a potato peeler.

I understand, and perhaps my metaphor was a tad strained. The point for me is that both parties were fully aware that the contents (both could reasonably assume it was a perfectly acceptable example of the knife represented on the label) were uninspected by the seller. In that case, I think risk is on the buyer.

 

[bonky]

How is the fact that it's a private sale any different?

Private sellers pay retail for knives. Retailers don't, they get them at a discount and sell them for a profit. That markup pays for inspection and returns to the manufacturer.

If an individual has questions about a knife in a private sale, they ask them and request pictures before money changes hands. If the item is not as described once received, then a refund is in order.

 

[JD Mandrell]

Selling a knife without ever seeing it out of the box...stupid.
Buying a knife just on pictures of the box.................stupid.

Pretty much a tie here on how to create a bad deal situation, but, ultimately, don't we live by "a deal isn't a deal, until both parties are happy"???

It's a pain, but have him send it back, refund ONLY after you have it, and have Benchmade repair/exchange it.

 

[kreole]

I agree BNIB means flawless and unused, not "as-is, in the box". That is what it has always meant.

Regardless of anything else, deals aren't done until both parties are satisfied, so the option to exchange has to be accepted.

That said, the onus is on the buyer to get it back in the same condition to reverse the deal, box conditon included (because the whole thing will drop in price if the box is bent, torn, etc.), so it should be packaged well and insured.

 

[DigDeeporDie]

• It really sucks this happened
  
• What's up with the defective Benchmade Fact? Nothing but tears can come of this
  
• Both parties in the sale have great reputations
  
• Every reason to believe both parties entered the deal in good faith
• Those stickers sure look look authentic to me
  
• Those stickers aren't tamper evident - everybody's on their honor
• Sale thread said "US Only" - many simple methods of resolution are out the window because they're too much trouble
• Sale thread said "Sealed Box" - that's a stated feature in the description of the item & opening the box without the buyer asking would be inappropriate
• Buyer's first message where the problem gets brought up includes a direct accusation of dishonesty against the seller - ouch
  
• Seller's first message was extremely unhelpful and did not come close to resolving the matter - ouch
  
• Buyer's 2nd message has rude language, accusations of a scam, threats - ouch
• Seller can probably get away with outright refusal of a refund here, and buyer's recourse is a dispute through their payment processor
  
• (edited to remove this item as unnecessary - I apologize)
  
• Seller should probably just refund the item and take it back
• Buyer should probably pay for international shipping and not threaten people

 

[Archer59]

In my experience this market is based on trust, that's all you got to go on when purchasing through a forum, online and from a private seller.

Theoretically fake representations (pics) can be posted, so can descriptions of the knife, ran across a few of those over the years, so yeah, trust and accountability, suspicion does'nt work here very well or there will be little to zero trade.

Third party sales or tenth party it's irrelevant, you’re the seller I'm the payer, I paid top dollar and expect a top (flawless) product, that's on the seller, period.

Did I ruffle a few feathers?

You decide to go public while I was more than willing to keep it and resolve it privately.

I am still willing to resolve this matter privately and quietly.

 

[Insipid Moniker]

I understand, and perhaps my metaphor was a tad strained. The point for me is that both parties were fully aware that the contents (both could reasonably assume it was a perfectly acceptable example of the knife represented on the label) were uninspected by the seller. In that case, I think risk is on the buyer.

The seller is the only one that can possibly assure that the product is without defect. The buyer can request pictures, request they take a look, etc. but they are ultimately at the mercy of the seller. The vast majority of knives we, as enthusiasts buy, we are trusting the seller to send us the right product in good condition and the seller is, rightly, where we turn to correct it if that isn't the case. If the seller hasn't bothered to make sure the product is in proper order, I simply don't see how the buyer should be held responsible.

 

[Insipid Moniker]

Private sellers pay retail for knives. Retailers don't, they get them at a discount and sell them for a profit. That markup pays for inspection and returns to the manufacturer.

If an individual has questions about a knife in a private sale, they ask them and request pictures before money changes hands. If the item is not as described once received, then a refund is in order.

The price has nothing to do with responsibility. Retailers don't have a markup to cover returns and inspections, they have a markup to make a profit. If you're selling for a loss, that's on you. The reason they can buy at a discount is because they have agreements to buy large quantities. But none of that changes where responsibility lies in the deal.

 

[HappyDaddy]

The seller is the only one that can possibly assure that the product is without defect. The buyer can request pictures, request they take a look, etc. but they are ultimately at the mercy of the seller. The vast majority of knives we, as enthusiasts buy, we are trusting the seller to send us the right product in good condition and the seller is, rightly, where we turn to correct it if that isn't the case. If the seller hasn't bothered to make sure the product is in proper order, I simply don't see how the buyer should be held responsible.

Ordinarily, I'd agree. What makes this transaction different, IMO, is that the fact that the box was unopened (and the knife necessarily uninspected) was a feature, not a bug. Done, and done! Cheers.

 

[BM-EDC]

When buying a collectible item many people value being the very first person to open the item. Apparently Insipid Moniker is not one of these people, and that’s fine.

Obviously Archer59 is one of those people due to the fact he never asked anything about the knife outside of my description. He happily purchased the item at my asking price. He happily (presumably) paid a third party to forward the item to him at additional cost. This seems to be a clear case of buyers remorse in my opinion and him trying to pass the buck back to me because it is too inconvenient for him to deal with BKC regarding the defect.

His attempts to threaten and intimidate me make me feel as though I’m being bullied into submission. I have zero inclination to conduct any further business with an individual who conducts themself in such a way. It is preposterous.

 

[Archer59]

Relax everyone the only threat that was implied was to go public, Robert took care of that all by himself.
Regardless of the insult to both of us the blowback is getting bigger and bigger.
And this is why I prefer to resolve matters like this in a private matter.

 

[JJHollowman]

Considering that obviously the main fault here lies with @Benchmade , they should send Archer a new knife, period. Do they want to be known for sending junk out? I'd think not, and therefore the reasonable thing to do is to send out a replacement to Archer, whether they want the old one back or not is another issue but I would think considering the trouble this one defect caused they'd likely let him keep it and write it off.
In the future, it's probably a good idea for sellers to at least know the knife is perfect prior to a sale and for the buyer to see pics of the actual knife prior to buying.

 

[Archer59]

For the record , I never paid any third party a red cent for anything, it was a favor done to me for me by a respected memeber of the BM forums.
Anyone that wants a reference to corroberate that is invited by PM only.
Friends do things like that for one another, the only thing I paid was the international shipping and even if he wanted to cover that and he has in the past I absolutely insist on paying my way.

 

[bonky]

The price has nothing to do with responsibility. Retailers don't have a markup to cover returns and inspections, they have a markup to make a profit. If you're selling for a loss, that's on you. The reason they can buy at a discount is because they have agreements to buy large quantities. But none of that changes where responsibility lies in the deal.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. There's a big difference between a retailer and a private seller; hence the difference in membership levels here on Blade Forums.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion, and I respect that.

 

[Archer59]

I don't give a shit if any seal is broken, it's like paying a premium for some kind of virginity?, it's actually the first BM I recieved with seal, if it's BM that seales it in the first place, I care that my hard earned money is respected and I recieved what I paid for.
No buyers remorse either, I love the model and wanted one but not a defective one.

 

[Insipid Moniker]

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. There's a big difference between a retailer and a private seller; hence the difference in membership levels here on Blade Forums.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion, and I respect that.

There is absolutely a quantitative difference, hence the difference in membership cost. Folks have yet to sufficiently explain what the qualitative difference is.

 

[ArchVV]

Seems like neither the OP or buyer really considered the possible results of their actions, resulting in this unnecessary quagmire (giggity).

 

[kreole]

I don't give a shit if any seal is broken, it's like paying a premium for some kind of virginity?, it's actually the first BM I recieved with seal, if it's BM that seales it in the first place, I care that my hard earned money is respected and I recieved what I paid for.
No buyers remorse either, I love the model and wanted one but not a defective one.

I already said the deal should be reversed, as you can read above, but you might also consider this a lesson to yourself to verify all the details of a knife before you buy it, if only to prevent the hassle for yourself later if/when there is an issue. I think this thread has been good for thr community because we've all learned here that even a "BNIB" knife needs pictures because not every knife comes perfect. As a buyer, one shouldn't jump on a sale without verifying completely, or some day there might be trouble.

On every side of this, the issue was trust/belief with lack of verification. The seller trusted Benchmade to deliver a perfect knife. The buyer trusted the seller to have described it accurately (which s/he did, but not to the extent necessary). A little extra work on anyone's part (manufacturer included) would have prevented this whole thing.

Issues come up on sales. I've had to undo a few sales myself. I didn't agree with the buyers' reasons, but BF sales rules are clear, and it's just easier to take the hit on shipping and list it again.

 

[JohnWE]

I don't give a shit if any seal is broken, it's like paying a premium for some kind of virginity?, it's actually the first BM I recieved with seal, if it's BM that seales it in the first place, I care that my hard earned money is respected and I recieved what I paid for.
No buyers remorse either, I love the model and wanted one but not a defective one.

One question, ok maybe two...

What caliber was the gun that was apparently put to your head forcing you to pay more than you claim the knife was worth sight unseen ?

If you wanted to see the knife before you committed to purchasing it did it occur to you to simply ask the seller to inspect it before shipping it to your friend?

 

[Peter Hartwig]

I don't give a shit if any seal is broken, it's like paying a premium for some kind of virginity?, it's actually the first BM I recieved with seal, if it's BM that seales it in the first place, I care that my hard earned money is respected and I recieved what I paid for.
No buyers remorse either, I love the model and wanted one but not a defective one.

In that case why not send it to BM to get it right? Your going to have to send it there or to the seller. Seems like sending it to BM is the more direct route to a solution. If you send it to the seller, he still has to send it out to get fixed.
You may have a reason not to, but if you still want the knife this is a way to go.
While not a rule here-deal isn't done until both parties are happy, I do adhere to it myself and would give you your money back if another solution couldn't be reached.