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Issue with member “Archer59”

Discussion in 'FEEDBACK: The Good, The Bad, The Ugly!' started by BM-EDC, Apr 25, 2019.

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  1. jux t

    jux t Gold Member Gold Member

    Jan 10, 2018
    Some collectors do prefer new sealed-in-the-box items. If I bought some very old wine that had never been open, I'd expect it to actually have never been opened. Regardless of the quality or lack of quality of the contents.

    If I bought a pack of baseball cards, sealed in the package- it would not be the sellers fault if there are miss printed cards inside.

    Some people do care that an item has never been opened. Yes, it is risky to not see the contents before buying. That is a chance some collectors are willing to take. I see no problem with this private sellers point of view.
  2. PirateSeulb

    PirateSeulb Gold Member Gold Member

    Jun 6, 2017
    I will repeat that in this niche market sealed will 99% of the time mean nothing to any collectors so I would advise against selling items still sealed. I haven't experienced BM boxes or seals to know how easily it can be removed and replaced w/o notice but that would be dishonest practice to sell an item as Sealed NIB yet having unsealed inspected and resealed even if this was done to ensure product was free from defects.
  3. Insipid Moniker

    Insipid Moniker Gold Member Gold Member

    Feb 28, 2011
    And 'all you know' isn't enough in a case like this.
  4. jux t

    jux t Gold Member Gold Member

    Jan 10, 2018
    I think, like some posters before, that your posts are usually sound and on point. In this case I disagree. The item advertised was a knife that was sealed in the box. The buyer received a factory new knife as it was, sealed in the box. The seller was specific and honest.
    bonky likes this.
  5. PirateSeulb

    PirateSeulb Gold Member Gold Member

    Jun 6, 2017
    I could rant on but really I am just repeating myself that I personally do not believe that the seller had any obligation to do more than post what he could know about the item being sold. In this case all he could know is that it was a BM box labeled as containing the knife the buyer happened to be interested and that the box was factory sealed. I also believe that in a private sale unless the seller lies or omits any detail that impacts the function or value then the seller has no obligations to the buyer and the deal is done. I know that flies in the face of the common accepted belief here that no deal is done until both parties are satisfied. That is the ideal method but when a buyer forgoes the sellers rules and/or buys an item with risks that can not be confirmed or cleared they assume those risk themselves and any results of those risk as the buyers to deal with. I would also liken opening a sealed box to taking apart a knife once you do that it is yours.

    I think in this scenario seller could have offered a perhaps 90% refund or something, to cover shipping he is out, and buyer paid return shipping but buyer get most of his money back and doesn't have to deal with the return to manufacturer. Seller could then deal with BM or where he bought it to get it replaced and sell the replacement. That to me that seems a fair solution the seller isn't getting stuck with cost he incurred over a buyers mistake and the buyer isn't stuck with a defective knife with costly repair and timely repair/replacement options and receives the majority of his money back.
    Ramrodmb, jux t, bonky and 1 other person like this.
  6. -Corey-

    -Corey- Gold Member Gold Member

    May 29, 2015
    I agree, that would be deceptive, but not out of the realm of possibility. I've had lots of Benchmades and have personally removed the piece of tape and stuck it back on without any evidence of it ever being done.

    I've sold off most of mine (none as sealed boxes), and none of the ones I've still got have the tape on there for me to demonstrate, but here's a random picture I found online that shows where the tape would be, then some pictures of a box I have that doesn't have any trace of where the tape was removed from.




  7. jp9mm

    jp9mm Basic Member Basic Member

    Apr 1, 2019
    The factory packaging method and materials probably has a lot to do with it
    Items like 'missprints' cards sealed in box would likely carry more value, im sure the seller would gladly take them back.
    Someone mentioned guns but pretty sure most if not all are handled a few times some way or another with easily opened cases and still considered 'premium new value' for being 'unfired' apart from factory testing.
  8. jux t

    jux t Gold Member Gold Member

    Jan 10, 2018
    When I buy new sealed in the box headphones, I expect an unopened set that has never been worn, never been tested outside of the factory. Never had the headband stretched over someone's cranium. No fingerprints. As factory sealed as possible, which means never inspected by any of the temporary owners.

    I'm sure there are plenty of examples of items that may be desirable to purchasers when they are factory sealed.
  9. AVigil

    AVigil Adam Vigil knifemaker working the grind Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Platinum Member

    Feb 17, 2009
    It seems strange for an individual to sell a box having faith there is a good knife inside and even stranger a buyer would buy a box without ever seeing what is inside until it arrives.
  10. Gastonknife

    Gastonknife Gold Member Gold Member

    Dec 15, 2008
    Dude, you have a serious problem. Lol . I thought I had a lot of knives .:eek:
  11. Vaporstang

    Vaporstang Gold Member Gold Member

    Apr 8, 2014
    So did the buyer agree to the terms? Is this resolved?
    SeppukuSamurai likes this.
  12. Dogdrawz

    Dogdrawz Gold Member Gold Member

    Aug 15, 2016
    Problem or a little "slice" of heaven? :cool:
  13. dsutton24

    dsutton24 Gold Member Gold Member

    Apr 9, 2018
    It's interesting. Anyone else notice that the grammar that Archer59 used in the email that the OP posted is poor, while the grammar in the posts that Archer59 himself posted is fairly good? I don't know if that means anything at all, but it's enough to make me wonder what the real story is.
  14. 10 Gauge

    10 Gauge Gold Member Gold Member Basic Member

    Jan 10, 2019
    While the tape may not leave any trace of being on the box, the tape itself once removed shows clear signs of having been removed, they curl and bend (particularly around the edge where the peeling started), leave fingerprints on the sticky side, etc. To me, from the picture given by the seller it's fairly evident that piece of tape has never been removed. With that said, I'm not siding one way or another or saying that's the case that's just my personal opinion on the matter, I do agree that it's not outside the realm of possibility that it was opened and resealed. Usually people don't take such great care removing the tape that it goes completely unscathed in any way during the removal process to be in such condition that if it were replaced you wouldn't be able to see some tell-tale signs of its removal.
  15. Peter Hartwig

    Peter Hartwig Gold Member Gold Member

    Feb 29, 2008
    Hopefully this has been resolved between the 2 parties at this point.
    When problems come up in a deal, it is best not to start by jumping to conclusions and with a lot of emotion. Try to be calm & reasonable and find the best solution to the problem 1st-there may not be a perfect solution. If you can't then get angry if you want, but starting that way just hinders the process IMO
    Mistakes happen and in this case many from the manufacturer on, but I don't think there was any attempt to de-fraud, just mistakes. again IMO
    Last edited: May 3, 2019
  16. KELAMA


    Jun 28, 2013

    No it's not. :thumbsup::thumbsup:

    Is it unreasonable to believe that buyer might have felt taken advantage of, regardless of what the facts might be..?

    Those sticker seals are easily removed/replaced. As to the why? Perhaps the seller didn't want to deal w/ the time and aggrivation of a return for service..wanted an expedited sale..figured a state side sale and would just tell the buyer, on discovery.."oh well, send it in to BM..that's would I would do anyway, so good luck" Or, pound sand..as another member suggested.

    I could state all that..but I wont, because it would be irresponsible and a non productive speculation. [/QUOTE]

    ^^^ I would NEVER, deal with this seller. Period! :thumbsdown::thumbsdown:
    Icky Thump and orangejoe35 like this.
  17. stonesell

    stonesell Gold Member Gold Member

    Feb 20, 2009
    Whatever the truth may be, it’s still ridiculous and irresponsible to sell a knife to another trusting member, without even verifying it’s condition.
  18. jux t

    jux t Gold Member Gold Member

    Jan 10, 2018
    The condition was not mentioned because it was an unopened benchmade.
  19. katanas


    Jan 6, 2012
    And the carousel goes round and round. :rolleyes:
  20. jlauffer

    jlauffer Gold Member Gold Member

    Apr 11, 2016
    Agreed, but just as ridiculous and irresponsible to buy a knife without verifying it's condition, and assuming that "sealed" means the same as "perfect condition".

    OilMan, katanas and benchwarmer380 like this.
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