Issue with member “Archer59”

[jux t]

Some collectors do prefer new sealed-in-the-box items. If I bought some very old wine that had never been open, I'd expect it to actually have never been opened. Regardless of the quality or lack of quality of the contents.

If I bought a pack of baseball cards, sealed in the package- it would not be the sellers fault if there are miss printed cards inside.

Some people do care that an item has never been opened. Yes, it is risky to not see the contents before buying. That is a chance some collectors are willing to take. I see no problem with this private sellers point of view.

 

[PirateSeulb]

I will repeat that in this niche market sealed will 99% of the time mean nothing to any collectors so I would advise against selling items still sealed. I haven't experienced BM boxes or seals to know how easily it can be removed and replaced w/o notice but that would be dishonest practice to sell an item as Sealed NIB yet having unsealed inspected and resealed even if this was done to ensure product was free from defects.

 

[Insipid Moniker]

You can't sell an item as sealed and know the conditions of the contents he disclosed all he know and the conditional of the item as best he was able in the state the item was in. I don't disagree that in this case and probably in general in this niche market selling a sealed item serves no one and only invites potential issues.

And 'all you know' isn't enough in a case like this.

 

[jux t]

And 'all you know' isn't enough in a case like this.

I think, like some posters before, that your posts are usually sound and on point. In this case I disagree. The item advertised was a knife that was sealed in the box. The buyer received a factory new knife as it was, sealed in the box. The seller was specific and honest.

 

[PirateSeulb]

I could rant on but really I am just repeating myself that I personally do not believe that the seller had any obligation to do more than post what he could know about the item being sold. In this case all he could know is that it was a BM box labeled as containing the knife the buyer happened to be interested and that the box was factory sealed. I also believe that in a private sale unless the seller lies or omits any detail that impacts the function or value then the seller has no obligations to the buyer and the deal is done. I know that flies in the face of the common accepted belief here that no deal is done until both parties are satisfied. That is the ideal method but when a buyer forgoes the sellers rules and/or buys an item with risks that can not be confirmed or cleared they assume those risk themselves and any results of those risk as the buyers to deal with. I would also liken opening a sealed box to taking apart a knife once you do that it is yours.

I think in this scenario seller could have offered a perhaps 90% refund or something, to cover shipping he is out, and buyer paid return shipping but buyer get most of his money back and doesn't have to deal with the return to manufacturer. Seller could then deal with BM or where he bought it to get it replaced and sell the replacement. That to me that seems a fair solution the seller isn't getting stuck with cost he incurred over a buyers mistake and the buyer isn't stuck with a defective knife with costly repair and timely repair/replacement options and receives the majority of his money back.

 

[-Corey-]

I will repeat that in this niche market sealed will 99% of the time mean nothing to any collectors so I would advise against selling items still sealed. I haven't experienced BM boxes or seals to know how easily it can be removed and replaced w/o notice but that would be dishonest practice to sell an item as Sealed NIB yet having unsealed inspected and resealed even if this was done to ensure product was free from defects.

I agree, that would be deceptive, but not out of the realm of possibility. I've had lots of Benchmades and have personally removed the piece of tape and stuck it back on without any evidence of it ever being done.

I've sold off most of mine (none as sealed boxes), and none of the ones I've still got have the tape on there for me to demonstrate, but here's a random picture I found online that shows where the tape would be, then some pictures of a box I have that doesn't have any trace of where the tape was removed from.

 

[jp9mm]

Some collectors do prefer new sealed-in-the-box items. If I bought some very old wine that had never been open, I'd expect it to actually have never been opened. Regardless of the quality or lack of quality of the contents.

If I bought a pack of baseball cards, sealed in the package- it would not be the sellers fault if there are miss printed cards inside.
Some people do care that an item has never been opened. Yes, it is risky to not see the contents before buying. That is a chance some collectors are willing to take. I see no problem with this private sellers point of view.

The factory packaging method and materials probably has a lot to do with it
Items like 'missprints' cards sealed in box would likely carry more value, im sure the seller would gladly take them back.
Someone mentioned guns but pretty sure most if not all are handled a few times some way or another with easily opened cases and still considered 'premium new value' for being 'unfired' apart from factory testing.

 

[jux t]

The factory packaging method and materials probably has a lot to do with it
Items like 'missprints' cards sealed in box would likely carry more value, im sure the seller would gladly take them back.
Someone mentioned guns but pretty sure most if not all are handled a few times some way or another with easily opened cases and still considered 'premium new value' for being 'unfired' apart from factory testing.

When I buy new sealed in the box headphones, I expect an unopened set that has never been worn, never been tested outside of the factory. Never had the headband stretched over someone's cranium. No fingerprints. As factory sealed as possible, which means never inspected by any of the temporary owners.

I'm sure there are plenty of examples of items that may be desirable to purchasers when they are factory sealed.

 

[AVigil]

It seems strange for an individual to sell a box having faith there is a good knife inside and even stranger a buyer would buy a box without ever seeing what is inside until it arrives.

 

[Gastonknife]

I agree, that would be deceptive, but not out of the realm of possibility. I've had lots of Benchmades and have personally removed the piece of tape and stuck it back on without any evidence of it ever being done.

I've sold off most of mine (none as sealed boxes), and none of the ones I've still got have the tape on there for me to demonstrate, but here's a random picture I found online that shows where the tape would be, then some pictures of a box I have that doesn't have any trace of where the tape was removed from.

Dude, you have a serious problem. Lol . I thought I had a lot of knives .

 

[Vaporstang]

So did the buyer agree to the terms? Is this resolved?

 

[Dogdrawz]

Dude, you have a serious problem. Lol . I thought I had a lot of knives .

Problem or a little "slice" of heaven?

 

[dsutton24]

It's interesting. Anyone else notice that the grammar that Archer59 used in the email that the OP posted is poor, while the grammar in the posts that Archer59 himself posted is fairly good? I don't know if that means anything at all, but it's enough to make me wonder what the real story is.

 

[10 Gauge]

I agree, that would be deceptive, but not out of the realm of possibility. I've had lots of Benchmades and have personally removed the piece of tape and stuck it back on without any evidence of it ever being done.

I've sold off most of mine (none as sealed boxes), and none of the ones I've still got have the tape on there for me to demonstrate, but here's a random picture I found online that shows where the tape would be, then some pictures of a box I have that doesn't have any trace of where the tape was removed from.

While the tape may not leave any trace of being on the box, the tape itself once removed shows clear signs of having been removed, they curl and bend (particularly around the edge where the peeling started), leave fingerprints on the sticky side, etc. To me, from the picture given by the seller it's fairly evident that piece of tape has never been removed. With that said, I'm not siding one way or another or saying that's the case that's just my personal opinion on the matter, I do agree that it's not outside the realm of possibility that it was opened and resealed. Usually people don't take such great care removing the tape that it goes completely unscathed in any way during the removal process to be in such condition that if it were replaced you wouldn't be able to see some tell-tale signs of its removal.

 

[Peter Hartwig]

Hopefully this has been resolved between the 2 parties at this point.
When problems come up in a deal, it is best not to start by jumping to conclusions and with a lot of emotion. Try to be calm & reasonable and find the best solution to the problem 1st-there may not be a perfect solution. If you can't then get angry if you want, but starting that way just hinders the process IMO
Mistakes happen and in this case many from the manufacturer on, but I don't think there was any attempt to de-fraud, just mistakes. again IMO

 

[KELAMA]

I could state that it could be as easily and more likely argued that the seller was aware of the defect. Awful convenient that the only knife "never opened" was the one w/ a defect..

Is it reasonable to believe this knife was never at least peeked at by the seller? A Limited, higher end knife..at least out of curiosity?

No it's not.

Is it unreasonable to believe that buyer might have felt taken advantage of, regardless of what the facts might be..?


Those sticker seals are easily removed/replaced. As to the why? Perhaps the seller didn't want to deal w/ the time and aggrivation of a return for service..wanted an expedited sale..figured a state side sale and would just tell the buyer, on discovery.."oh well, send it in to BM..that's would I would do anyway, so good luck" Or, pound sand..as another member suggested.

I could state all that..but I wont, because it would be irresponsible and a non productive speculation. [/QUOTE]

^^^ I would NEVER, deal with this seller. Period!

 

[stonesell]

Whatever the truth may be, it’s still ridiculous and irresponsible to sell a knife to another trusting member, without even verifying it’s condition.

 

[jux t]

Whatever the truth may be, it’s still ridiculous and irresponsible to sell a knife to another trusting member, without even verifying it’s condition.

The condition was not mentioned because it was an unopened benchmade.

 

[katanas]

And the carousel goes round and round.

 

[jlauffer]

Whatever the truth may be, it’s still ridiculous and irresponsible to sell a knife to another trusting member, without even verifying it’s condition.

Agreed, but just as ridiculous and irresponsible to buy a knife without verifying it's condition, and assuming that "sealed" means the same as "perfect condition".

And the carousel goes round and round.

Yep