In that case they must to use spring at top . . .
Must be that my English is terrible if you still not understand how this work and how was made and why it is good with ratchet .........
KMG has a new grinder!
- Thread starter NickBoyle
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Must be that my English is terrible if you still not understand how this work and how was made and why it is good with ratchet .........
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Traditional tracking mechanisms put the pivot to the side of the tracking wheel, such that the entire tracking wheel has to travel in an arc to change its angle. While watching the video, if you plant your finger on the screen, just under the older style tracking wheel, you can see it raises and lowers quite a bit.
With the "axis neutral" set up, the pivot point is actually in the center of the tracking wheel. Plant your finger under the wheel while it moves, and you can see it doesn't raise or lower in the traditional arc at all, but just pivots left to right.
Make sense?
In that case they must to use spring at top . . .
Natlek, your English is just fine - it's me being focused a different direction that kept me so confused. That last video helped me understand - once I added audio to video so I could hear what they were saying.
I can see why the did have to change the tracking system with the ratchet system. With the old system the wheel moves up and down a good bit as well as tilting. With the new system the wheel only tilts, thus not changing the tension on the belt any. Now it makes sense. Natlek, you've mentioned this before but it never took in my mind until now.
That's why the spring is needed. "IF" they had put the adjusting screw at bottom, the belt the spring would still be needed because the belt tension is pulling down on wheel which works with old system, but wouldn't work so good on new system.
When I read "axis neutral" system I was thinking of the "twisting" rather than "tilting" type tracking adjustment. The new tracking system is still the "tilting" type, but I can now see why it's axis neutral.
Drew, you verbal explanation the best I've read.
Thanks to all ya'll, now I've got a decent understanding how the new tracking system works, and why it's required with the ratchet tension system. That's why Travis had to use the "twisting" motor for his tracking system.
Ken H>
Excellent explanation , thanks
And that it raises and lowers can make problem with ratchet . . . Depends on teeth size and distance from pivot point ,travel of tracking wheel can be to short or too long between two teeth , most likely the TW 90 owners know this better . When you put new belt you don t tight belt on maximum ...You tight it little loose , make tracking adjustment and then you tight belt that one teeth more If you tighten it first and you need to adjust tracking /say to raise tracking wheel / that long travel of tracking wheel will produce additional tension...and probably will end up with over tighten belt ..there is no spring to compensate that movement of tracking wheel . In this case movement of tracking wheel is very short and will not produce much more tension on belt ....As I say , I like it BUT I like little more my new tension CAM system ...allows me to tight belt in any fraction of mm....I want PS. Guys , don t forget , if belt grinder is made properly . . . .tracking wheel serve only to solve problem with imperfect belts..........
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Just realized there was audio. That makes a difference.
Well, I got my grinder on Monday, but wasn't able to set it up immediately. Services was great through the process. I've only used it a bit, but its very smooth and very nicely put together. The new tracking mechanism is pretty cool. I'm coming up from a Grizzly... so every bit of this is an improvement. I also went ahead and got a DD work rest for it. This is so much nicer than what I'm used to. Here are a few pics.
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Josh Rider
Stuff maker
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Ahhh, I see what neutral axis tracking means now. Clever.
Anyone with a modified kmg should be able to see how this fixes some things.
Anyone with a modified kmg should be able to see how this fixes some things.
Alex, thanks for the video - now I "finally" see how that tracking system works. A lot of thinking went into that system.
Barnett - thanks for the photos - the photos along with the video clears NOTS of stuff up. Seems like a pretty complex tracking system.
Ken H>
Barnett - thanks for the photos - the photos along with the video clears NOTS of stuff up. Seems like a pretty complex tracking system.
Ken H>
Ken my friend , nothing is complex in that tracking system .... . I can make it for fifteen minutes . . . . .IF B Barnett_K or @Alex Dron take out
tracking wheel you will see how simple is made
Two of this is all I need
here ..................it is that simple.Of course you will need wheel which will be like this one on KMG...
last try ...........or I will make one tonight
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I have strong doubts about that mechanism being as stable as the original KMG style. It's relying on that tiny spring to be able to correct belt wobble. Also, the pivot point has to be dead center in the crown of the wheel. Which means there is very little, if ANY, space between the bearings. This is why they went with a steel tracking wheel. If/when the crown gets worn just a tiny amount off center that spring will no longer be strong enough to overcome belt tension. I'm scratching my head as to why they didn't put the spring on top and the adjust on the bottom.
Natlek, you're right as it soaks in I can see it's not that difficult to make. The spring doesn't even have to be as strong as I was first thinking because the pivot is in the center the load on the wheel is balanced so the spring doesn't really have all that much pressure on it. Where the old style KMG tracking has the belt providing pressure to hold the wheel tilted down, this the belt pressure doesn't hold the wheel tilted in any direction because the pressure is balanced on both sides of the pivot point in middle of wheel.
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I agree. Even though the pivot is in the center, and as Ken just noted, it shouldn't require as much strength in the spring as the original tracking system would, putting the spring on the top just seems like too easy of a design tweak/fix to not do, especially with the ratcheting tension system not allowing for any compensation in the height of the tracking wheel so to ease any pressure on the tracking wheel spring, as also noted by Natlek. At least this is how it seems in my mind, although could be different in reality/practicality. Seems like a good idea that would possibly be made a bit better with a few minor changes.
~Paul
My Youtube Channel
... (It's been a few years since my last upload)
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I finally got it running and had a chance to try today. First, the spring is not tiny, it's quite strong. I can hardly move the wheel by bare hands (not using screw). Tracking is very, very well done, I like it so much. I tried multiple belt types and all could be adjusted to 0.25" horizontally on flat platen by only turning the control screw like 10-20 degrees. Though the direction of adjustment is a bit awkward to me - its opposite to my old style KMG-like grinder.
My only concern so far is the ratcheting system. I really hope it is made of hardened steel, otherwise I'm afraid teeth can be worn pretty soon. Time will show.
Another issue for me - the elevation of control arm over the workbench. It is about 7" higher than I got used to. I understand its because of flipping system, but still have to deal with it - either by building some step up platform or by lowering my workbench, both options very inconvenient to me. But I knew it would be an issue even before I bought it
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Until you run the belt off one side or the other for grinding, right? But still, the pressure added may not be that great. They must have tested that spring thoroughly one would hope.
Seems like a pretty good improvement. Not epic, but maybe worthwhile.
Mark, I don't think it matters if the spring is located, top or bottom. Either place the spring should have the same amount of pressure on it. If the belt is tracking to the inside, then the spring on top would have most pressure, if tracking to outside then spring on bottom would have most pressure. I think the amount of pressure would still be fairly small. As Alex say it's a strong spring.
Alex - it sure sounds like it's a sensitive adjustment if moving the tracking screw only 10 to 20 degrees will move belt 1/4". BUT - maybe that's not so bad. It does sound from your post it tracks nice and straight. I'd think they would use a hardened notches so they shouldn't be wearing over the years.
Alex - it sure sounds like it's a sensitive adjustment if moving the tracking screw only 10 to 20 degrees will move belt 1/4". BUT - maybe that's not so bad. It does sound from your post it tracks nice and straight. I'd think they would use a hardened notches so they shouldn't be wearing over the years.
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how tall is the new grinder to the tooling arm hole i have my KMG 1 on a 6 inch riser to get the hight i want off the bench
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Alex.. I didn't know if you have seen this yet but it looks like Beaumont is coming out with a new work rest for their new tilting grinder. I will be purchasing one of these in the near future when I order my new tilting grinder for sure.