Knife Making Startup Costs....Need Input/Help

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PEU said:
If I got everything straight after reading all you posts:

Part time job
Outsource the blade profile to be cut by wire EDM
you do most of the afterwork in your yet to be made knife shop (as part of your wood shop)
you have to make 50 units of the same quality and finish
by September/15
you never did a single finished knife.
you almost dismissed pure gold advise by Brian Evans & many others

I see a 100% chance of failure, but I also sincerely wish you to prove me wrong.

I hope you can document with pictures and comments the whole endeavor.


Pablo
Click to expand...

You would think acquiring the skill first would be a priority.
 
I recently purchased an Esteem grinder so my teenage son and I could get a bit more serious about learning to make knives and have some fun. We already had a drill press, metal band saw and other tools. I can see now that we've been going about it all wrong. We are obviously way behind and should have made a big sale prior to getting the grinder. I have built countless award winning homes and commercial projects and knives obviously can't be much different than that or furniture. I am confident our first drop point hunter will rival those made by the late, great Bob Loveless and folks will be lining up to buy them. Though others have obviously spent years honing knife crafting skills I am confident we can greatly compress that to a week or two. With some jigs they will practically build themselves. I may learn to scrimshaw too, so I can do a nice grape scene and sell 1,000 to a friend that owns a winery. I will tell him that they will be done before crush time next fall to sell to folks at their tasting room. It will have to be evenings and weekends for my son and I but we will pull it off.

Removing tongue from cheek now.
 
I can't believe you guys are still trying to convince this guy of anything. Ten pages in a couple days and ....nothing changed???
He has all the answers and really didn't want any input from us.
I have my popcorn and beer ready to watch it as it develops...or doesn't :)
 
Hi,

Here are some things you missed and a few words of advice:

Missing- bandsaw, taps, polishing wheels, grinding jig, mister, respirator, and a lot more.

I'm a mechanical engineer and thought it would be easy to start making my own knives as a hobby. I designed a bunch of really cool looking cad models that were feasible and had correct tolerances.

I could easily have the parts waterjet or edm, not the problem. The grinding and fitting is the issue. Even with a grinding jig things just did not go right. You could go through 15 blanks and not get one right if you have never ground a blade. Even harder is the finishing and polishing, that is not an easy task and takes tremendous time. Finally when all the parts are done, fine tuning and assembly can be a nightmare.

I am lucky to be very close friends with one of if not the best custom flipper maker in the world. I also know a bunch of other very great makers that have given me a lot of help. Even with all that it is a mess.

Doing this as a hobby only, I couldn't imagine actuly taking an order. That sounds like a really bad idea bro.
I'm not trying to discourage you, you just need to have a realistic idea of how hard it is and the damage you could do to your reputation as a business.

I would suggest on focusing to learn how to make a knife first. You can worry about taking orders after you have made a knife at an acceptable level.

That is why most aspiring makers start by pimping & modding knives, it gives them exposure to different Designs and problems. Like I said, even being an engineer with 15 years experience, my knife designers at a basic level till about the 7-8 design I came up with and had a real maker review.

Best of luck bro, just looking out for you.
 
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Let me just add. I would not feel comfortable charging $50 much less $190 for a knife that I hadn't made yet. I see that you are making a fixed so that is easier, but to think you can make a $190 fixed blade is a stretch.

I thought you were doing this because of passion to learn how to make a knife. I was wrong. If you just want to make money, there are much better options like selling drugs...
 
drysideshooter said:
I recently purchased an Esteem grinder so my teenage son and I could get a bit more serious about learning to make knives and have some fun. We already had a drill press, metal band saw and other tools. I can see now that we've been going about it all wrong. We are obviously way behind and should have made a big sale prior to getting the grinder. I have built countless award winning homes and commercial projects and knives obviously can't be much different than that or furniture. I am confident our first drop point hunter will rival those made by the late, great Bob Loveless and folks will be lining up to buy them. Though others have obviously spent years honing knife crafting skills I am confident we can greatly compress that to a week or two. With some jigs they will practically build themselves. I may learn to scrimshaw too, so I can do a nice grape scene and sell 1,000 to a friend that owns a winery. I will tell him that they will be done before crush time next fall to sell to folks at their tasting room. It will have to be evenings and weekends for my son and I but we will pull it off.

Removing tongue from cheek now.
Click to expand...
Dryside,
Before you let that tongue loose our pal is also going to make 50 leather sheaths without ever making one to date.

Mad, I would just like to add that just watching the Utube vids isn't going to grind the blades for you just like watching Porn won't make you a Porn star!:roll eyes:

The Tomcat pilots at Miramar Navy Air Station, have/had a saying that will apply here. You can learn in the class room, hear all of the lectures, spend time in the simulator and watch all of the films and still.

Nothing replaces air under your butt!

Stay safe and have fun!
 
Rhinoknives1 said:
Dryside,
Before you let that tongue loose our pal is also going to make 50 leather sheaths without ever making one to date.

Mad, I would just like to add that just watching the Utube vids isn't going to grind the blades for you just like watching Porn won't make you a Porn star!:roll eyes:

The Tomcat pilots at Miramar Navy Air Station, have/had a saying that will apply here. You can learn in the class room, hear all of the lectures, spend time in the simulator and watch all of the films and still.

Nothing replaces air under your butt!

Stay safe and have fun!
Click to expand...

My sheaths are going to be kydex not leather, I wasn't even going to go down the road of trying to make a leather sheath just yet. Notice the kydex press and Rivet Press in my list......
 
Pittknife said:
Let me just add. I would not feel comfortable charging $50 much less $190 for a knife that I hadn't made yet. I see that you are making a fixed so that is easier, but to think you can make a $190 fixed blade is a stretch.

I thought you were doing this because of passion to learn how to make a knife. I was wrong. If you just want to make money, there are much better options like selling drugs...
Click to expand...

You saying that price is too high? Because he was fine paying that amount for the knives
 
Pittknife said:
Hi,

Here are some things you missed and a few words of advice:

Missing- bandsaw, taps, polishing wheels, grinding jig, mister, respirator, and a lot more.

I'm a mechanical engineer and thought it would be easy to start making my own knives as a hobby. I designed a bunch of really cool looking cad models that were feasible and had correct tolerances.

I could easily have the parts waterjet or edm, not the problem. The grinding and fitting is the issue. Even with a grinding jig things just did not go right. You could go through 15 blanks and not get one right if you have never ground a blade. Even harder is the finishing and polishing, that is not an easy task and takes tremendous time. Finally when all the parts are done, fine tuning and assembly can be a nightmare.

I am lucky to be very close friends with one of if not the best custom flipper maker in the world. I also know a bunch of other very great makers that have given me a lot of help. Even with all that it is a mess.

Doing this as a hobby only, I couldn't imagine actuly taking an order. That sounds like a really bad idea bro.
I'm not trying to discourage you, you just need to have a realistic idea of how hard it is and the damage you could do to your reputation as a business.

I would suggest on focusing to learn how to make a knife first. You can worry about taking orders after you have made a knife at an acceptable level.

That is why most aspiring makers start by pimping & modding knives, it gives them exposure to different Designs and problems. Like I said, even being an engineer with 15 years experience, my knife designers at a basic level till about the 7-8 design I came up with and had a real maker review.

Best of luck bro, just looking out for you.
Click to expand...

If I'm having a company take care of all the steel cutting, why do I need a bandsaw? I have designed a grinding jig specifically for this design. I've already revised my last to account for more PPE. A mister for what? The grinder? If so I have seem some people use one and some don't, the ones that do have a major mess, much more I think than without one, I think I'll stick with a water bucket and maybe a dust collection at most.
 
drysideshooter said:
I recently purchased an Esteem grinder so my teenage son and I could get a bit more serious about learning to make knives and have some fun. We already had a drill press, metal band saw and other tools. I can see now that we've been going about it all wrong. We are obviously way behind and should have made a big sale prior to getting the grinder. I have built countless award winning homes and commercial projects and knives obviously can't be much different than that or furniture. I am confident our first drop point hunter will rival those made by the late, great Bob Loveless and folks will be lining up to buy them. Though others have obviously spent years honing knife crafting skills I am confident we can greatly compress that to a week or two. With some jigs they will practically build themselves. I may learn to scrimshaw too, so I can do a nice grape scene and sell 1,000 to a friend that owns a winery. I will tell him that they will be done before crush time next fall to sell to folks at their tasting room. It will have to be evenings and weekends for my son and I but we will pull it off.

Removing tongue from cheek now.
Click to expand...

Go for it, the sky is the limit
 
Bro, there are experienced makers making fixed for around that price. You can get a very nice production fixed for way under that. Hell you can get a high quality flipper for that price.

Here is what I learned about business (btw I have a mba along with my bsme) no one is willing to pay anything until they actually pay you. Until you get payment or have a solid contract it's not a done deal. If it is a Fortune 500, whoever is issuing the PO will have to get a couple levels of approval. There is also a very serious issue of legality and liability for a Fortune 500 company to buy a knife to give out to anyone.

I work for a top 50 company and assure you there is no way my sbu could ever purchase a knife as a marketing tool. The liability is too great. Do I agree with it? Hell no, but that is reality.

Business is littered with broken promises.
 
madupree said:
If I'm having a company take care of all the steel cutting, why do I need a bandsaw? I have designed a grinding jig specifically for this design. I've already revised my last to account for more PPE. A mister for what? The grinder? If so I have seem some people use one and some don't, the ones that do have a major mess, much more I think than without one, I think I'll stick with a water bucket and maybe a dust collection at most.
Click to expand...

Is this serious? What maker you know doesn't have a bandsaw.

You realize that parts don't always come magically in tolerance from vendors right? You will need to make adjustments. Bandsaw is pretty big deal, if you want to make prototype and don't have a CNC bandsaw is it.

You have a surface grinder? What happens when you get all nuts and forget to cool the blade and it warps? Mister helps like crazy if you are doing a lot of grinding, but what do I know. I'm just some guy that got advice from some of the best makers in the world.
 
As Pittknife has mentioned a bandsaw with Bi-Metal blades is a must for every maker.

I;m getting the impression that you think that every part is going to show up perfect from all to the suppliers and you will only have to spend a few hours in the shop each night assembling parts after your jigs make short work of your grinding needs?

If you "REALLY" want to be a knife maker, you will need a Metal cutting bandsaw period!
 
"If you "REALLY" want to be a knife maker, you will need a Metal cutting bandsaw period!"
Why?
Loveless suggests it isn't needed in his book, and I know a full time maker who has been supporting himself and his family for 20 years without one. I can't remember his name, but there was a video of a maker in Brooklyn of kitchen knives who was cutting hem out with an angle grinder, and he was doing pretty well. In this case, if all the blades are coming in profiled, and there are not going to be any bolsters or guards fitted, what is the bandsaw for? Bandsaws are not fine tuning tools, they are rougher-outers, so I am not clear on how one would help if parts do not come in from the suppliers exactly right.

It is hard not to feel somewhat insulted by someone being casually self assured about the ease with which they will succeed in a field in which one has spent many hours honing ones skills, and found it a challenge. It comes across as belittling, but Madupree's plan and goal seems pretty far away from what most of us are doing, or would want to do; I am not sure its right to try to compare it to what we do. Whatever most of us would think a "knife maker" is, I reckon that a "single model for single customer designer, out-sourcer and handle fitter" would be pretty far from the median.

I am sure that whoever Madupree has talked to has sorted out the liability issues. Where I work, we couldn't get as far talking to a vendor without having already jumped that hoop. Mind you, I work for a US owned corporation which has such strict Health and Safety rules that the only knives allowed are automatic self retracting box cutters with no points!
 
Pittknife said:
Bro, there are experienced makers making fixed for around that price. You can get a very nice production fixed for way under that. Hell you can get a high quality flipper for that price.

Here is what I learned about business (btw I have a mba along with my bsme) no one is willing to pay anything until they actually pay you. Until you get payment or have a solid contract it's not a done deal. If it is a Fortune 500, whoever is issuing the PO will have to get a couple levels of approval. There is also a very serious issue of legality and liability for a Fortune 500 company to buy a knife to give out to anyone.

I work for a top 50 company and assure you there is no way my sbu could ever purchase a knife as a marketing tool. The liability is too great. Do I agree with it? Hell no, but that is reality.

Business is littered with broken promises.
Click to expand...

Rhinoknives1 said:
So your knives will be in the $395.00 retail price range, or are these a giveaway promo?
Click to expand...

They're giving them away
 
C_Claycomb said:
"If you "REALLY" want to be a knife maker, you will need a Metal cutting bandsaw period!"
Why?
Loveless suggests it isn't needed in his book, and I know a full time maker who has been supporting himself and his family for 20 years without one. I can't remember his name, but there was a video of a maker in Brooklyn of kitchen knives who was cutting hem out with an angle grinder, and he was doing pretty well. In this case, if all the blades are coming in profiled, and there are not going to be any bolsters or guards fitted, what is the bandsaw for? Bandsaws are not fine tuning tools, they are rougher-outers, so I am not clear on how one would help if parts do not come in from the suppliers exactly right.

It is hard not to feel somewhat insulted by someone being casually self assured about the ease with which they will succeed in a field in which one has spent many hours honing ones skills, and found it a challenge. It comes across as belittling, but Madupree's plan and goal seems pretty far away from what most of us are doing, or would want to do; I am not sure its right to try to compare it to what we do. Whatever most of us would think a "knife maker" is, I reckon that a "single model for single customer designer, out-sourcer and handle fitter" would be pretty far from the median.

I am sure that whoever Madupree has talked to has sorted out the liability issues. Where I work, we couldn't get as far talking to a vendor without having already jumped that hoop. Mind you, I work for a US owned corporation which has such strict Health and Safety rules that the only knives allowed are automatic self retracting box cutters with no points!
Click to expand...

Being that he wants them before hunting season he might be giving them out to his customers while on the hunting trips he brings them on
 
C_Claycomb said:
"If you "REALLY" want to be a knife maker, you will need a Metal cutting bandsaw period!"
Why?
Why indeed... Devil's advocate here, but people really get wrapped up on here sometimes telling each other what you "need" and I have to disagree with this or any other statement of what someone needs in order to be a knife maker. there are soooo many ways to do almost everything that I don't think any one tool is a "need" for everyone and to say otherwise is rather narrow minded in my opinion. I have been making knives as a hobby for over 20 years and still don't have a huge bi-metal band saw... get along just fine so far. I'm not saying it wouldn't be great, but to say you need one is an overstatement.
Click to expand...
 
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