Knife Making Startup Costs....Need Input/Help

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C_Claycomb said:
"If you "REALLY" want to be a knife maker, you will need a Metal cutting bandsaw period!"
Why?
Loveless suggests it isn't needed in his book, and I know a full time maker who has been supporting himself and his family for 20 years without one. I can't remember his name, but there was a video of a maker in Brooklyn of kitchen knives who was cutting hem out with an angle grinder, and he was doing pretty well. In this case, if all the blades are coming in profiled, and there are not going to be any bolsters or guards fitted, what is the bandsaw for? Bandsaws are not fine tuning tools, they are rougher-outers, so I am not clear on how one would help if parts do not come in from the suppliers exactly right.

It is hard not to feel somewhat insulted by someone being casually self assured about the ease with which they will succeed in a field in which one has spent many hours honing ones skills, and found it a challenge. It comes across as belittling, but Madupree's plan and goal seems pretty far away from what most of us are doing, or would want to do; I am not sure its right to try to compare it to what we do. Whatever most of us would think a "knife maker" is, I reckon that a "single model for single customer designer, out-sourcer and handle fitter" would be pretty far from the median.

I am sure that whoever Madupree has talked to has sorted out the liability issues. Where I work, we couldn't get as far talking to a vendor without having already jumped that hoop. Mind you, I work for a US owned corporation which has such strict Health and Safety rules that the only knives allowed are automatic self retracting box cutters with no points!
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What happens when he goes through all his extra blanks & then most of his "stock blades" for productions trying to figure this out. Make another EDM run for 1 or 2 parts? He can trace the blank and cutout using a bandsaw a lot easier.

He doesn't have an angle grinder from his comments.

There are a lot of real knife makers in commenting very sound advice in this thread. My suggestion is listen to them. It has become very apparent that the OP is not interested in becoming a legitimate knife maker and establishing his reputation. This is a business venture (even if it is not sound) for him. I can spend 6 months to make a business plan and write down on an excel sheet that I'm going to make 500% net profit on a $3 million dollar deal. I can also create a gantt chart showing perfect timelines as well. Writing it down and having it work out are completely different things.

Yeah it is insulting for a guy to come on here and talk out their ass about how easy it is to make a knife. It's easy watching youtube videos, its also easy watching a maker with years of experience grinding in person. Its not easy when you have to do it yourself. *it is not many hours, try hundreds or thousands to get to a good level.

No one has a problem with the OP wanting to make knives. They have a problem with him thinking its easy peasy and taking 50 orders @ $190 a knife and thinking its going to work out.
 
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rustyrazor said:
C_Claycomb said:
"If you "REALLY" want to be a knife maker, you will need a Metal cutting bandsaw period!"
Why?
Why indeed... Devil's advocate here, but people really get wrapped up on here sometimes telling each other what you "need" and I have to disagree with this or any other statement of what someone needs in order to be a knife maker. there are soooo many ways to do almost everything that I don't think any one tool is a "need" for everyone and to say otherwise is rather narrow minded in my opinion. I have been making knives as a hobby for over 20 years and still don't have a huge bi-metal band saw... get along just fine so far. I'm not saying it wouldn't be great, but to say you need one is an overstatement.
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yea my thoughts exactly, if it comes down to it that i absolutely need one, then i'll go get one...
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Pittknife said:
What happens when he goes through all his extra blanks & then most of his "stock blades" for productions trying to figure this out. Make another EDM run for 1 or 2 parts? He can trace the blank and cutout using a bandsaw a lot easier.

He doesn't have an angle grinder from his comments.

There are a lot of real knife makers in commenting very sound advice in this thread. My suggestion is listen to them. It has become very apparent that the OP is not interested in becoming a legitimate knife maker and establishing his reputation. This is a business venture (even if it is not sound) for him. I can spend 6 months to make a business plan and write down on an excel sheet that I'm going to make 500% net profit on a $3 million dollar deal. I can also create a gantt chart showing perfect timelines as well. Writing it down and having it work out are completely different things.

Yeah it is insulting for a guy to come on here and talk out their ass about how easy it is to make a knife. It's easy watching youtube videos, its also easy watching a maker with years of experience grinding in person. Its not easy when you have to do it yourself. *it is not many hours, try hundreds or thousands to get to a good level.

No one has a problem with the OP wanting to make knives. They have a problem with him thinking its easy peasy and taking 50 orders @ $190 a knife and thinking its going to work out.
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i do have a 4" angle grinder sittin on the shelf, if i go through all the trial steel and still don't have it down then i will gladly go get another 15-20 pieces.
 
When do we start getting pictures? I too once thought about making knives. Motivate me!

Eric
 
I am interested to see how this turns out. I think there are several things that could go wrong, but we'll have to see what actually does go wrong.

I think a few things. You guys know I love lists so here one is.

1. Even if everything else goes right, Marshall's handles are likely to be blocky. This will especially be true if he uses a round over bit in a router. (HORRIBLE idea, by the way.)

2. This is my main point. If he can pull off a decently ground knife, he might pull off the whole thing, blocky handles and all. Marshall, tell us if I'm not understanding you correctly. He isn't making custom knives. He is making one design for a corporate giveaway. Most people in the outside world have no clue what an actual custom knife feels like or works like. They carry and use knock off SAKs, jarbenzas, gas station knives, etc. the people that will receive these knives most likely won't know an ok knife from a great knife. How many people in your real worlds do we know that pick up a knife, flip it over to check the plunges and edge, etc. My brother is a mechanic. There is a guy in his shop who "makes knives." Lawnmower blades and a bunch of other junk like that. The other guys go gaga over them. Allan showed them a picture of my Dart EDC. The others said something like, "oh, that's neat." Most people don't give a shit one way or the other about real steel, real customs, real anything. Another example. I had a discussion with a former classmate about my knife business. He was of the opinion that I ought to paint several of my customs neon green and sell them as zombie knives. Also told me that if I could make a knife to rival the SOG seal pup to let him know. I said, "the seal pup is AUS8 steel. My CPM20CV knives would blow it out of the water." He said, "yeah but it's not all about the steel; it's about balance and how the knife feels and stuff." No shit? Man, I have been doing it all wrong! Seriously, most guys wouldn't know a great knife if you stabbed them with it.
 
Guys like this are great. They are the source of "lightly used" equipment for sale in the exchange thread. I would recommend you also get a Rockwell tester, a TW90 and a Tippmann Boss.
 
I would suggest abandoning the Kydex and give them a nice leather sheath. Can't be that tough, right? Go really old school and get raw leather, or better yet, kill an animal yourself with the prototype of your knife design for extra "cool factor". Don't go for the common modern tanning methods though. You want to stabilize your own wood, so you should tan your own hides too, right? Do the urine tanning method used for many years by various Native American tribes. Unless you are a beer drinker, or willing to down a bunch of iced tea or water you may want to consider outsourcing the urine production too though.
 
madupree said:
If I'm having a company take care of all the steel cutting, why do I need a bandsaw? I have designed a grinding jig specifically for this design. I've already revised my last to account for more PPE. A mister for what? The grinder? If so I have seem some people use one and some don't, the ones that do have a major mess, much more I think than without one, I think I'll stick with a water bucket and maybe a dust collection at most.
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OK, If not a Bandsaw you will need at least need a chop saw with a fiber disc for cutting stew or a Die grinder. I used a chop saw for bar stock cross cuts for about two years in before I got a proper metal 4 x 6 bandsaw. You may just need to make a few more blanks for practice and a hacksaw is very time consuming and laborious.
 
You, sir, must be a marketing/sales genius to convince a Fortune 500 company to buy 50 knives on spec at nearly $200 a pop from someone who has never made a single blade. PT Barnum would be proud.
 
I can pretty much guarantee that things may not be as they have been stated.

I am the owner and CEO of a fair sized company. I get pitched stuff all of the time. When someone has a new piece of earth moving equipment they don't bring me pictures or drawings and expect us to buy. They set up a demo on one of our jobsites. When a new material or product comes out they will often give us some to try. Even though I may express interest if something is as good as claims, everyone knows there isn't a deal until there is a signature on the line that is dotted. If someone tried to pitch me a promotional item that they had never even made, without anything to show me but a drawing and a promise to produce it, I wouldn't give them the time of day, let alone waste a lunch with them, or any type of meeting until they had something to show me. When we buy company coats, hats, etc. we don't even think about ordering until we've seen physical samples and evaluated them.

I have been a member of industry focus groups where we will be asked about what we like about current products, and what our feelings would be about a product that came out that did "x" different/better, and then we are typically asked what type of price point we would be comfortable with for such a product if it was brought to market. Typically they pay us for that time, or at least we get a few nice meals and a good room for participating. I would think that if someone pitched an idea to someone about incorporating their material into a promotional product, and they liked it, but found out they had no experience with such a product, they would be likely to hire someone with experience for the project and maybe pay the guy for the idea. Even though I currently own a knife grinder and other tools, and actually made a few knives prior to owning the grinder, if I wanted a knife to give away as a promotional item I would find someone right here in this forum with experience with the type of knife I was wanting and talk with them about it.

Did someone leave a mackerel on the heater?
 
Using Jeff at TruGrit is a good call.

He can grind them and HT them for you and you can concentrate on the finish work.
 
madupree said:
Well for S&G I called Jeff Mutz and was surprised at the coSt for him to getting the bevels and heat treat my blades. It's actually about the same price for him to do both steps than for Texas Knife supply to just do the heat treating, looks like I'll be sending the blanks to him and when I get them back 'they'll be ready for handles' as he said.......
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What do you mean by getting the bevels?
 
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