Lets talk GEC!

Leslie Tomville said:
Well Chris at GEC says they will not attempt to repair the spinner burned stag 78 in the top photo. I asked for a discount but have not heard back from her yet. I did manage to get the backup in the lower photos in case we cannot come to an agreement
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Wow, that’s kind of a shocking way to treat a customer, especially one that’s being so awesome about an obvious flaw in a collectible knife purchase.
 
Yes Coyja Coyja , I was surprised at their response. GEC must be doing well. I would think that this would be the time to increase customer service, thereby increasing customer loyalty, not diminish it. Sure, it is easier to just have the dealer make a refund on a faulty knife, but why not offer repair services? Especially on a knife like the 78 Stag which cannot be replaced through an exchange.

It is also disappointing that they are inconsistent with their repair policy. Sometimes they seem to be amenable to making repairs and sometimes not. I just read a post about someone who complained about a 78 with separation between the liner and scales. They are repairing that knife but will not even look at mine.

Finally, I would have settled for a discount. They agree that the knife should not have been sold as first
quality. But, in order to receive the discount, they would require me to mail the knife from my home in the Deep South to the dealer in the Pacific Northwest who would them send the knife to GEC in the Northeast where they would scrape an “S” into the blade before they would presumably be willing to send it back to me in the Deep South. What a waste of time and money. All to prevent me from selling the knife as a first quality which I could do anyway right now because the knife is still in my possession! (Which I would never do anyway. And no one would think the knife is first quality anyway with a spinner burn circle.)

Anyway, I am still a fan and will continue to buy and enjoy their knives. I hope that my experience is a rare exception. But customers should not be taken for granted. Brand loyalty requires good customer service which could help GEC one day in the future when times are not so good.
 
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I think their customer service has been pretty good, even in this case. I think you are asking for a bit much. How do you expect them to repair that burn circle?

What exactly have they offered you? Did the dealer or GEC offer to give you your money back if you send them the knife? Offer an exchange for another of the same model?
 
Wow. Got to say that gives me some pause w GEC for future purchases.
I just started buying Buck and I did run into a few warranty issues right away. All were dealt w quickly and the knives are on their way back to me w a fast turnaround and no BS. Am I happy I immediately found some issues? No, but the response has been admirable.

I understand we’re talking about different scales of operation, but GEC is riding on a reputation of quality that they let slip in this case.
Their response is inexcusable for an issue that is so clearly their problem. I’m dumbfounded that they treated you like that...
 
Leslie Tomville Leslie Tomville I don't get it. Their decision doesn't make sense to me, either.

It wouldn't be hard for them to verify the flaw in the knife and offer a discount refund without you ever sending the knife away (a couple of pictures of the knife and receipt emailed to them seems sufficient, if your word isn't enough). People oversell GEC knives that are marked as "S" on Ebay as it is, and it is their mistake that this one got by their inspection. They shouldn't penalize you as the buyer since you couldn't have inspected it, nor should they try to police what price he sets on it if it does to the secondary market (did they really say that was their reasoning???).

Seems like a bad decision on their part.
 
Norcaldude Norcaldude , To answer your question, all I expected them to do was take a look at the knife and see what they could do. I would have mailed the knife in at my expense. To me, that is the basic minimum of what I would call decent customer service.

The dealer has been great and is willing to do whatever he can. Of course I can get a refund, but an exchange is not possible with this knife. They are each unique and are all sold out anyway. The knife I am referring to is simply a very nice example that I believe is worth some effort.

I do believe the process I described for a discount is absurd. I understand the reason for marking a flawed knife as a second. But, in this situation, they were the ones who patched over the flaw then shipped it out of the factory as first quality. I did not wish to receive a flawed knife. Requiring me to send it around the country, to be further marred, because they do not trust me does not inspire brand loyalty in me. I have no intention of selling the knife, and I would certainly not mislead anyone if I did. If I decide I do not want the knife, I will simply return it to the dealer.

I am not asking anyone to take sides. I am simply conveying my experience. Certainly there are valid business reasons to support GEC’s current level of customer service, and they are obviously doing quite well. I just wish they had handled this situation differently.
 
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Coyja said:
Their response is inexcusable for an issue that is so clearly their problem. I’m dumbfounded that they treated you like that...
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OK, a little devil's advocate here. The issue left the factory without them catching it; that is done. Personally, a factory that doesn't want to dig around on stag then send it to someone who could (wouldn't, but could) sell it as a first - sounds ethical to me. And GEC discounts "S" models because they no longer have an implied warranty. So, if the current owner took a $20 discount and then sold the knife with no designation on it, GEC would be full circle on the warranty.

Leslie is a stand-up person. But there are some that once they heard you could call GEC with a cosmetic problem and they would send you a cash discount - would light the phones up. I am near certain if Leslie talks to the person the knife was bought from - they would give him a full refund if he sent the knife back or a discount and let him keep it. Seems like I saw he bought a replacement. Prior to that I offered assistance if it was needed. Dealers would rather lose a little money on one sale than have an unhappy owner of any brand they carry.
 
I guess, in terms of a customer service response, and because this is a factory not dealer issue that is a rare occasion, if I was GEC here is how I would handle it:
Email Les a mailing label to ship back to the factory.
Credit the dealer for the difference in what would be a second sale.
Receive knife at factory, inform dealer, dealer refunds Les the difference.
GEC stamps the knife S and ships back to Les.
Done.
This isn’t rocket surgery...

EDIT: this is all predicated on the previous info that they have already refused to fix the issue, which would have been the simplest and most obvious response to the flaw.
 
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knifeswapper knifeswapper , Mike, I want to be clear that the dealer has offered a refund, and he has done everything he could do. I have absolutely no complaints there.

With reference to GEC, I asked them if I could mail the knife in, and I stated that I did not want a discount if they could repair the knife. I would only ask for a discount if they could not repair it. You see, it is not about the $20. I still believe they could have easily taken care of this issue. I also did not expect them to rely on a phone call, or even photographs, because they would have had the knife in their possession. Chris responded that I should not send it in, because they would not attempt to fix the stag. That leaves us where we are.

It seems clear to me that they simply find repairs more trouble than they are worth, and it is easier to just give a refund. I believe that is shortsighted, but it is their choice. However, it is my choice to not be satisfied with that kind of treatment. It is not smart to take your customers for granted.

Mike, thanks for showing an interest in this. I always appreciate your insight and candor. I did not realize that you were offering assistance regarding a new knife. That is truly much appreciated, but thankfully not necessary.
 
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Leslie Tomville said:
It seems clear to me that they simply find repairs more trouble than they are worth, and it is easier to just give a refund.
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I don't think that is the case at all. I have heard of them repairing knives many times and they have repaired at least two that I have sent in.

It is clear that they don't want to deal with trying to 'repair' a flaw in a natural material like stag.

When you say you want it repaired, are you expecting them to A: remove that slab of stag and replace it with another or B: somehow 'fix' the stag that is already on it?
 
Leslie Tomville said:
knifeswapper knifeswapper , Mike, I want to be clear that the dealer has offered a refund, and he has done everything he could do. I have absolutely no complaints there.

With reference to GEC, I asked them if I could mail the knife in, and I stated that I did not want a discount if they could repair the knife. I would only ask for a discount if they could not repair it. You see, it is not about the $20. I still believe they could have easily taken care of this issue. I also did not expect them to rely on a phone call, or even photographs, because they would have had the knife in their possession. Chris responded that I should not send it in, because they would not attempt to fix the stag. That leaves us where we are.

It seems clear to me that they simply find repairs more trouble than they are worth, and it is easier to just give a refund. I believe that is shortsighted, but it is their choice. However, it is my choice to not be satisfied with that kind of treatment. It is not smart to take your customers for granted.

Mike, thanks for showing an interest in this. I always appreciate your insight and candor. I did not realize that you were offering assistance regarding a new knife. That is truly much appreciated, but thankfully not necessary.
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I have to pipe in with my customer service experience from GEC. I had to send in a knife to have blade centering fixed. I received a knife with a blade that was touching a liner. They took the knife back, fixed the blade, no questions asked. I have also called and asked Chris to check for knives in their store for me, and she's obliged! Those knives are supposed to be privilege for people who come in to the store... Pretty good customer service if you ask me.

I'm not going to speculate about why GEC made this call; as I can easily see both sides of the argument, and I'm not sure that it's worth stirring the pot about. But Bill, so far, has not demonstrated himself to be a man of unsound business mind. GEC has not demonstrated to me that they find repairs more trouble than they are worth, and I would consider it pretty brash on my behalf to make a claim that they do without having heard that disposition directly from GEC.

I bought a stag knife from another GEC dealer from the Churchill run. I asked for a couple things to be checked, and during the checking, the dealer found a different issue that lead them to mark the knife as 2nd, refund me my money, and then offer me to buy the knife at the 2nd price if I still wanted it on a different product page.

Cosmetic issues get marked as 2nds or "S"; they don't get remade. Seems like knives get marked 2nds by dealers and "S" when they're caught at GEC. I'll bet dealers don't send knives back to GEC to get marked "S", though I could be wrong, and maybe a dealer will remark about that. So, it seems natural that the dealer would take the knife back to make it right with the customer, and then the knife in question would become a 2nd. knifeswapper knifeswapper is right about the warranty issue, too - having a knife discounted as a 2nd with no markings isn't fair to GEC.

These are limited quantity production knives. They're high demand. Not everyone gets one. I don't think that I am entitled to a knife just because I want it, or even entitled to a perfect knife just because I'm willing to pay for it. There are plenty of people willing to pay for it, as demonstrated by the fact that there are plenty of knives that seem to spend much of their time being bought and sold again and bought again on this forum.

I'll also say that if I were required to never make a mistake at work, I'd be out of a job, and I bet so would everyone else on this forum. To all of the people who are now questioning whether or not they want to remain GEC customers, why is GEC held to a different standard just because we like pocket knives?
 
traumkommode said:
I'll also say that if I were required to never make a mistake at work, I'd be out of a job, and I bet so would everyone else on this forum. To all of the people who are now questioning whether or not they want to remain GEC customers, why is GEC held to a different standard just because we like pocket knives?
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Dunno about your work but in mine, if I make a mistake, I'm supposed to make it right. Even to my disadvantage. I'm personally not impressed with how GEC have handled this issue. Lowering standards for manufacturing (the guy who made that hole didn't suddenly forget about it when he continued working with the piece), QC and CS are all signs of an unhealthy rather than healthy business. Especially when all three are combined. Yeah it's only one example, but it's a clear example of a business philosophy which is new to a loyal customer base.
 
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traumkommode traumkommode , I do not blame them for making a mistake, and I do not feel entitled to any particular knives. I also do not think they are making a conscious decision to treat me or any other customer poorly. I believe that they have a great product but an inconsistent method of customer service, that’s all. Pomsbz Pomsbz said it best, they have a very loyal customer base and need to make their business decisions in light of that.

This is not really a big deal at all, and, as I have said before, I hope my experience was just an aberration. I want them to be successful and keep making great knives.
 
I've send in two knives in for repair . First was a white owl that I informed GEC that I had dropped and cracked the bone handle. No charge .Second was a tc Barlow that I gave to a friend. I informed GEC that he was using the blade to pry a shotgun shell out of his gun and it snapped.They said send it in. No charge
I'm no knife maker but I can imagine why they wouldn't want to "fix" it . What if customers doesn't like the repair? What if the slab breaks ? Is the customer going to be happy with the replacement?
Really don't see how a full refund isn't good enough. Then another dealer offers to help out with a knife issue he didn't sell . I've always thought that dealer networks represent the company , there for, a part of . Pretty good customer service in my opinion
 
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Txjohn Txjohn , If more people have experiences like yours, they are in good shape. I guess you do feel different than me, because you did get good customer service. Remember, I did not break my knife. It was sent to me this way as a first quality. All I expected was for them to look at it to see what could or could not be done. Good customer service is protection for that day when the knife craze dies down or new competition comes along. Our individual stories will not matter then, it will be the cumulative affect. I am glad you were treated well Txjohn Txjohn . Let me say it again, I am pulling for them. I want them to succeed. I want to buy lots of good knives in the future. We probably ought to move on now. I think we worked this topic over well enough. I only brought it up because I thought the spinner burn damage was interesting and something I had not seen before. Most people suggested I send it in to be fixed. I tried that, and it was a no go. I actually thought I would have a positive story to tell.
 
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A mixed bag is my experience.

Firstly, I think it would be easy for GEC to take back Leslie's knife, polish/grind off the spinner ring and blacken or smooth the Stag, very quick job. Mistakes do happen, fair enough but when Stag is the premium handle material you'd think they'd take just a little extra care with it? they supposedly select Stag and try and match it, plus now they no longer elect/dare to inlet shields, this ought to give them even more time to check Stag or fix it when wrong. This is no minor nit picking flaw either, personally I find the response rather nonchalant.

Others have had good experience with GEC fixing knives, we need to hear this, but my experience did not match it. I dropped a 73 on a doorstep the day I bought it, the pile side scale got cracked. I got in touch with them and asked if they would replace the slab at my cost as it was my fault, I could've lied and said it arrived like that. It took a few times to get a response and then that they would 'only' fix it when a slab became available as they didn't keep stock of parts. Now the bone slab was Smooth Ivory Bone, the simplest slab you can get, no jigging, no colouring and it's the pile side so no shield cut-out. The 73 is a very common run not a rarer pattern either so I certainly WAS disappointed by their apparent indifference and when I was prepared to foot the bill entirely.

One swallow doesn't make a summer of course and I have strong experience of GEC's QC, their knives are very consistent and reliable in build-quality but this attitude to fixing faults is not very convincing in my book, that's all. CASE and Buck have fixed knives of mine at their cost, it's to be hoped that GEC could make a better gesture too given their real committment to quality.

Thanks, Will
 
Leslie Tomville Leslie Tomville

Hopefully things work out to your satisfaction. All the prior posts cover most of my thoughts already. I just wanted to add my personal experience on a couple things.

I had a minor QA concern so I called GEC and Bill answered the phone. I summed up my concern in about 15 seconds and he requested I email him pictures. I sent pictures as soon as I got off the phone and he told me to send it in. I received the knife back under 2 weeks and it was perfect.

Also wanted to add that oddly enough several of my most used favorite knives to carry are the one's that caused me the most grief initially. Your outcome might be completely different, but keep your hopes up. I'm sure you're looking at it as a defect, which it is, but that defect makes it unique and screams hand made to me. Anybody else ever see a GEC knife with a spinner burn in the stag?
 
I have always gotten good service whether it is in person (actually I've never not gotten absolutely fantastic service in person) or remotely (through phone or email, easier to reach them through phone) on non "S" knives.

knifeswapper said:
OK, a little devil's advocate here. The issue left the factory without them catching it; that is done. Personally, a factory that doesn't want to dig around on stag then send it to someone who could (wouldn't, but could) sell it as a first - sounds ethical to me. And GEC discounts "S" models because they no longer have an implied warranty. So, if the current owner took a $20 discount and then sold the knife with no designation on it, GEC would be full circle on the warranty.

Leslie is a stand-up person. But there are some that once they heard you could call GEC with a cosmetic problem and they would send you a cash discount - would light the phones up. I am near certain if Leslie talks to the person the knife was bought from - they would give him a full refund if he sent the knife back or a discount and let him keep it. Seems like I saw he bought a replacement. Prior to that I offered assistance if it was needed. Dealers would rather lose a little money on one sale than have an unhappy owner of any brand they carry.
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I think the important thing here to note is that "S" sometimes called "store models" are NOT warrantied and should be viewed how one views "seconds" from most other companies. I have an "S" model that came with a slightly over ground handle scale, but within a day the liner started to pull away from the spring and ended up causing blade play and a big burr to dig into the other side liner at the pivot. This was not covered and they couldn't work on it, being that it was an "S" model. I don't plan to buy "S" models in the future.

Leslie Tomville said:
traumkommode traumkommode , I do not blame them for making a mistake, and I do not feel entitled to any particular knives. I also do not think they are making a conscious decision to treat me or any other customer poorly. I believe that they have a great product but an inconsistent method of customer service, that’s all. Pomsbz Pomsbz said it best, they have a very loyal customer base and need to make their business decisions in light of that.

This is not really a big deal at all, and, as I have said before, I hope my experience was just an aberration. I want them to be successful and keep making great knives.
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I think you're right that their WARRANTY application is inconsistent.

Txjohn said:
I've send in two knives in for repair . First was a white owl that I informed GEC that I had dropped and cracked the bone handle. No charge .Second was a tc Barlow that I gave to a friend. I informed GEC that he was using the blade to pry a shotgun shell out of his gun and it snapped.They said send it in. No charge
I'm no knife maker but I can imagine why they wouldn't want to "fix" it . What if customers doesn't like the repair? What if the slab breaks ? Is the customer going to be happy with the replacement?
Really don't see how a full refund isn't good enough. Then another dealer offers to help out with a knife issue he didn't sell . I've always thought that dealer networks represent the company , there for, a part of . Pretty good customer service in my opinion
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This ^ is a perfect example. According to the wording of their warranty, they should not have repaired your knife:

"We warrant all Great Eastern Cutlery (GEC) knives to be free of defects in material and workmanship. GEC does not warrant its products against normal wear or misuse. GEC does not warrant natural handle materials after the use of the knife."

But they should warrant against the obvious machining defect in Leslie Tomville Leslie Tomville knife.

I'm not making a judgement on whether it's right or wrong, or good or bad business practice. I know the people (Chris, Bill Howard SR, William Howard JR) seem to genuinely care about the quality of their products and provide good service. I like the knives and will keep buying them (first quality models) if they stay the way they operate currently.

I would love to see more stainless though.
 
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