Manix 2 in Maxamet !

NJBillK said:
I am Very surprised to see the Cruwear down so far on that list. I have knives in s35vn, s30v, and a multitude of others, and it seems to out perform them quite handedly, aside from my M4...

Regardless, I will be in the market for one of these.
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a major contributing factor is the heat treat.
a good cruwear heat treat
Cru-Wear - 700 - Phil Wilson Custom Bow River - 63 RC - .005" behind the edge.
a so so heat treat
Cru-Wear - 260 - Military - ? RC

see the difference? same goes for the rest of the steel on the list. getting blades from Phil Wilson and other well known heat treaters, have some of the best in the industry. but those are custom knives, not production knives. production knives get sent to heat treaters good or bad, but they dont guarantee everyone is going to be perfect, in fact they probably send knives by the 100,000's to get heat treated. no way that a huge amount of blades will all be uniform in the same heat treatment. if its a production knife they have to pay more to guarantee exact ranges. i would guess most heat treaters will do a 4-5point range, so from 50-55RC for example (and btw, you can still get a bad heat treat with the desired hardness rating, just tossing that in there). if the knife company wants a 3 point range 50-53 it will cost more and so on. this may differ hugely between different heat treating companies and custom heat treaters.

there are so many variables in heat treat in production knives alone that its hard to really say exactly for sure (not to mention blade shape/design/geometry, how it was sharpened etc).

look at this sample data... clearly each is at a different RC and they vary pretty differently. all spyderco's, but all S110V, i assume the mule is the earliest example (since the mule is a test for consumers to test for the company).
S110V - 600 - Mule - 60 RC - .015" -.018" behind the edge.
CPM S110V - 1080 - Spyderco Military - 63-64 RC - .020" Behind the edge
S110V - 1120 - Manix 2 - 62 RC - Regrind to .005" behind the edge.

just trying to explain that with thousands of different brands and models each steel type will be different, heck even the same model could differ based on weather a knife was in the middle or the end of the lot while in heat treat.

if you need a tool/knife for a specific task and need it to last, get a custom knife made for that task with a guaranteed heat treat. iirc Phil Wilson will target within 1 Rockwell of your target but it costs bookoo bucks. otherwise you probably wont notice in day to day use.

i would fathom a guess that knives made in china will probably have poor heat treat most of the time, being that they send them to china to save costs. thats not always the case what so ever. i believe some manufactures have excellent heat treating, and other brands will ship out to heat treat elsewhere and then ship the blades to get assembled in china. again how many manufactures and product lines in the knife market? not everyone does it the same. afterall were talking about mass produced production knives.

The other aspect is...
Geometry is really what does the cutting, and you select the steel that can support the thinnest geometry possible at a given hardness. Generally, the harder the steel, the stronger the knife, and the better it can support a thin edge.
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i kinda wonder what a Phil Wilson heat treated MAXAMET blade would would yield? iirc i remember a post somewhere, where Phil was talking with Sal G the idea hardness for the maxamet mule.
 
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I'm pretty excited for this one. I pre-ordered from KW. Will it replace my Big Chris reground .005" S110V Manix 2? We shall see, but either way, should be a good one.
I'm thinking about sending this new one off to Chris for that same regrind and maybe a wharncliffe conversion.
 
Here's some he's done before:

IMG_2558.jpg

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Mo2 said:
a major contributing factor is the heat treat.
a good cruwear heat treat
Cru-Wear - 700 - Phil Wilson Custom Bow River - 63 RC - .005" behind the edge.
a so so heat treat
Cru-Wear - 260 - Military - ? RC
Click to expand...

I understand that. That was my main reason for stating thealloys used that, on paper (or screen as it were) seem to far outperform my Cruwear regardless of what I personally have experienced.

I understand that most manufacturers will not HT to optimal edge holding and risk having the uneducated masses mistreat it, cause it to chip out (or worse) and blame the manu...

That being said, my S35vn sebenza (60-61, new protocol), ZT770cfM4 (currently unknown hardness, but I will dig it up if you want), manix 2 s30v, Benchmade s30v and a few others have ranked higher (in this one particular test).

My personal findings show that my Cruwear will hold an edge longer than my other (production) alloys aside from my M4. That has been noticed when left at 220 grit and toothy and 5K polished.
It is entirely possible that my personal Manix (Cruwear) is on the higher end of the spectrum and Jim's test Military was 2-4 points lower.
 
NJBillK said:
I understand that. That was my main reason for stating thealloys used that, on paper (or screen as it were) seem to far outperform my Cruwear regardless of what I personally have experienced.

I understand that most manufacturers will not HT to optimal edge holding and risk having the uneducated masses mistreat it, cause it to chip out (or worse) and blame the manu...

That being said, my S35vn sebenza (60-61, new protocol), ZT770cfM4 (currently unknown hardness, but I will dig it up if you want), manix 2 s30v, Benchmade s30v and a few others have ranked higher (in this one particular test).

My personal findings show that my Cruwear will hold an edge longer than my other (production) alloys aside from my M4. That has been noticed when left at 220 grit and toothy and 5K polished.
It is entirely possible that my personal Manix (Cruwear) is on the higher end of the spectrum and Jim's test Military was 2-4 points lower.
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I think possibly like you, the level of sharpness I deem "sharp" is shaving sharp, not "working edge" sharp. That is where CRUWEAR shines IMO. It could also be that you dull your knives more from the edge becoming compromised from harder use and not by pure controlled abrasion cutting. CRUWEAR is very tough and has great edge stability. Look at S30V wrong after you get it shaving sharp and it loses that keen edge. Not CRUWEAR or XHP if you're interested in a SS that behaves similarly. Those hold their keen edge for a longer time. HAP40, M4, and good VG10 are that way in my experiences as well. Also, those are all easy to get stupid sharp, and at least two of them have Cobalt which is supposed to help with red hot properties and shouldn't matter for a knife, but I like to think it does☺

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk
 
Well, September is coming to an end, and I wonder if they will make it this month. Anyone hear anything?
 
I am super excited. I feel the the manix LW is a crazy value and almost ideal EDC. There a a ton of situations that my 110v LW is my go to.

I would never prefer maxamet to S110 for EDC but it will be a cool platform to try maxamet out.
 
Has anyone got an update on this version? :confused: :D Maxamet is where its at! :thumbup::thumbup:
I can't wait to hear.
 
It's a wharncliffe conversion / regrind done by Big Chris.
I'm seriously considering sending this Maxamet version (and some others) off to him for a similar conversion.
 
Question for Sal -
When do you think that these beauties will hit the retailers?
Thanks,
Dave
 
The sites all say ETA is September, but Sept is passed, October is almost over. any updates Sal? i dont mind waiting, would just like a new Estimated time of arrival - of course ETA means estimate and not actual.

can we also get another spyderco in 10v? K2 is way too big, id rather have a milltary2 or manix in 10v to go with a maxamet blade.
 
My beef with the K2 is same as my beef with the Military. Just add the option for tip up carry. I don't mind, and sometimes really dig, the larger blade sizes, but tip down only is a deal breaker for me.
 
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The Manix 2 LW Black is my favorite folding knife ever...but I have an order in for a Maxamet.

John Shirley
 
Mo2 said:
a major contributing factor is the heat treat.
a good cruwear heat treat
Cru-Wear - 700 - Phil Wilson Custom Bow River - 63 RC - .005" behind the edge.
a so so heat treat
Cru-Wear - 260 - Military - ? RC
.
Click to expand...


Much of the difference there will be the blade geometry, not all of it would be in the heat treat. if the phil wilson is half the thickness behind the edge, its going to cut much longer before it appears to dull (or dulls to the same perceivable level) as a blade that's twice the thickness behind the edge.

your other data in relation to the 110v only shows that a harder blade stays sharp for longer than a lower RC when the thickness is similar (to be expected), but better geometry (even with the lower RC) blade trumps both. again to be expected.
so unless we know the thickness behind the edge of the cru wear military vs phil wilson cru wear then it means nothing, and its all in the geo.

When you get into the steels like maxamet etc its all going to be heat treated via computer/ temperature controlled furnaces & professional equipment. There is no guy dipping the maxamet blade into oil or watching for its change in colour before quenching. I would be willing to bet the heat treatment is done by companies who specialise in heat treatments and perform heat treatments on all kinds of steels for the tool making & industrial manufacturing applications. They will have furnaces where they set the temp scale / ramp & time in a computer and walk away. (for example we have a company down here called heat treatments who have a massive premises with dozens of high tech computer controlled vacuum furnaces, precisely controlled cryo chambers and everything in between.)

I guess what I’m getting at, is unless something went very wrong along the process somewhere, the heat treating will be done by a company who is more than capable of heat treating it however anyone wants its heat treated. The steel has heat treat info & specs developed by, and provided by the company who invented it, which can be precisely followed by any heat treatment company worth their salt to get the desired outcome.

granted there will be an "ideal" and it may take some R&D to find the ideal mix of hardness/toughness for knife blades, but once it was known it could be duplicated by any good company with the right equipment.
 
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