Mini History of Cold Steel SRK and Recon Tanto

I believe it is possible that Cold Steel did send USA made Carbon V steel to Japan back then

They did, but the only knife I'm aware of that was made of Carbon V and was also made in Japan were some Trail Masters, back in the late 80's, or maybe very early 90's, like 90 or 91. Not sure if they were made in parallel with US production at the time, or they switched production to Japan for some reason. According to the 1992 catalog, TM production was stopped for a period due to a shortage of "key craftsman"...then it is back in the 1993 catalog. Maybe going to Japan was an attempt to keep production going? Regardless, they are pretty rare, so not many were made.
 
I don't think it's possible for us to prove or disprove Cold Steel arranging to have "Carbon V" delivered to Japan to have knives produced without a direct statement from someone involved. If I was a betting man I know which way I'd bet but we are talking about proprietary information not released by Cold Steel in the past. I have several knives in Carbon V and they involve two manufacturers but both did the same high quality finish and the way the steel reacts on my stones and while cutting makes them indistinguishable to me. With added nickel or without I can't tell. I like them and have enjoyed Cold Steel products since the late 80's so don't get the idea I'm complaining. I have only heard of one manufacturer successfully getting American knife steel used for knife production in Japan and that was pretty recently. To say they resist the concept is putting it pretty mildly. :) They do produce some of the highest quality steel made already though they like everyone else have had steel made and rolled to spec in China though most of their high end cutlery steel remains produced in Japan. Joe
 
So are you thinking that the Carbon V TMs that were made in Japan were made with Japanese steel? I mean, there is no question that some Carbon V TMs were made in Japan...if you look at the TM history i did you can see the markings...so then the only question would be whether they sent Carbon V steel to Japan, or Japan created their own CV steel.
 
Whether CS actually shipped steel from the US to Japan, or they used a locally sourced carbon steel and simply called it Carbon V, we will probably never know for sure. Unless some evidence or testimony arises.
Another US Knife company, SOG sold knives made in Seki (by the same factory that made the SRK/Recon Tanto/MH BTW) that they sold as 440A. It wasn't until over a decade later after SOG ended Japan fixed blade production that they admitted it was Aus6, but called it 440A as it was more familiar to American buyers. IF CS had done something similar, and I'm not saying they did, cost wise my bet would be on SK5 marked as Carbon V. Or, CS may have actually shipped Carbon V to the Seki factory. While I obviously can't discount that possibility, I can not think of any other such example in the 1980s/90s. Hence those Made in Japan Carbon V TM's are a real mystery to me.
That countries can and export knife steels to other counties is obviously true. However that Taiwan imports both US and Japanese steels may not be a good example because Taiwan has no domestic production of such types of steel so there isn't much choice. I suppose they could import from China but that might cause complications.
 
SK5 was my guess. The SOG carbon steel knives were SK5 also, weren't they? The Steel manufacturers have a catalog that contains steels for whatever needs a buyer can come up with to JIS and even ASI standards. SK5 is just one of many but too my thinking the most logical choice. Having used and owned a bunch of Cold Steel knives but not the Japan made model admittedly, SK5 is closer to Carbon V than any of the Blue or White steels and other Carbon tungsten steels commonly used in knives. Still, there is every possibility Cold Steel arranged shipment of the American steel. IMO, the odds are against that.

Joe
 
"so then the only question would be whether they sent Carbon V steel to Japan, or Japan created their own CV steel."

They actually don't have to create anything. Carbon V is whatever they say it is.
 
Yes, Hattori made the SOG S1 with SK5, and Kinryu made the early Tiger Shark, Tech, Recon Bowie with SK5. In fact I can't think of any other Japanese carbon steel used for export models by any company in the 1980s/90s.
Fully agree with your view. Possible but unlikely.
 
I wonder if Lynn remembers things like this or has has a journal/file history. Or maybe has doesn't care. Fat chance finding out probably. Always thought it would be nice to do an interview with him using questions from here.
 
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The Whip -

Can you confirm that this blade (the "western" blade from post #10) - has No black / coated text ?

As the knife I mentioned in post #10 (which it seems you purchased) looked like the text was black / coated ?

I have a feeling that, at least some of these knives, seen on the internet Don't have Black text. It is just the angle of the camera.

Sorry, sir, but that knife does not belong to me. Far too many problems over the years, so I don't do eBay any longer.

Based on the original photos, however, I can assure you that there is no black coating in the text of that knife. I saw what you meant by the angle causing it to appear like black text in this photo.


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But it's clear in this photo that there is no black in the lettering.


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Contrast that with the lettering in the first knife pictured in my post #5.


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I realize that I may be in the minority on this, but I still don't believe that this knife has been stripped. Any solvent stripping would have removed at least some of the coating from the lettering. I believe buffing sufficient to remove the epoxy also would have done the same, as well as damaged the edges of the Kraton where they meet the blade.

As I said earlier, I've also seen at least one other example of this type of polished Carbon V SRK elsewhere on the Internet (can't relocate the photos, however). Until someone confirms that these are modified originals, I'm sticking with my supposition that they're a rare variant.

-Steve
 
The Whip - thank you for the info and the pics.

I looked at the photos you just posted and now can see the difference much easier. Stripped, not stripped, variant - could be any of these. I did have a new thought, maybe the letters are filled in with some substance after the knife is stripped (would take some patience and care) ?

Again, thanks for the update.
 
The Whip - thank you for the info and the pics.

I looked at the photos you just posted and now can see the difference much easier. Stripped, not stripped, variant - could be any of these. I did have a new thought, maybe the letters are filled in with some substance after the knife is stripped (would take some patience and care) ?

Again, thanks for the update.

My pleasure! I'm confident that someday we'll get the entire chronology sorted out. This thread and the people who have contributed to it have already shed a lot of light on a history that was unknown a couple of months ago.

Looking at the photos again closely, I noticed that the Western SRK and the polished SRK actually possess different tang stamps (note letter spacing). Conclusion: Western changed its stamp or else Western didn't make the second knife. The mystery deepens....

-Steve
 
For everyone trying to follow company names to trace Carbon V knife production, you are barking up the wrong tree. The thing to trace is the MAN, Dan Maragni, who developed the heat treat of the two varieties of Sharon Steel 1095CV/0170-6 cutlery steel for Cold Steel. Look up a comparative graph of those steels at Z-knives. When Sharon went under, original Carbon V did, too, not helped by Camillus and their second version going under, too.

Currently, Maragni is at Ontario, and has done heat treat of old Sharon-type metals stocks bought by AGRussell from the Camillus bankruptcy and called DM-1 steel. Apparently the exact steel patent is still closely held by someone, so no exact dupes on market, to this day.

Follow this below cut and paste of his career, and you can follow who was doing what, where, and when...

EMPLOYMENT
1988-2006 Head of Domestic Production for Cold Steel, Inc. Brought Cold Steel production to Alcas Cutlery Corp., Ontario Knife Co, Western Cutlery and Camillus Cutlery Co. Duties included overseeing every step and operation used in the production of Cold Steel knives from metallurgical examination of the incoming material to final inspection and packing. Developed Carbon V material/heat treatment, modified and improved the heat treatment to Cold Steel standards, established procedures and trained sharpeners. My position ended with the collapse of Camillus Cutlery Co. in June 2006.
1982-2006 Technical consultant to Cold Steel Inc.
1979-1988 Custom bladesmith specializing in high carbon, performance oriented knives. American Bladesmith Society Mastersmith rating and Voting Member of the Knifemakers Guild 1983-2003.

TEACHING
2005, 2000 and 1995-Founded, organized, directed, demonstrated and
lectured at the NEBG Ashokan Sword Seminars. Lectures included “Introduction to Swords”, “European Sword Technology”, “Physical Characteristics of European Cutting Swords 250 BC to 1200 AD”, “Medieval Sword Reconstruction” and “Violent, Bloody Death” a look at forensic archeology associated with edged weapons.
2003 Lectured on “Development of Blade Patterns from Laminated and Twisted Structures” and demonstrated pattern development using Fimo clay at the annual Timonium Ethnographic Seminar.
2003 Lecture/Slide Show “From the Celts to the Normans: Early Sword Development in Europe” and demonstrated European swordsmithing at the Association for Renaissance Martial Arts 2003 International Gathering in Sandy Creek, NY.
2003 Lecture/Slide Show on “Celtic Art” at Mohawk Valley Community College as part of the visiting lecturers series.
2002 Lectured and demonstrated at the ARMA Princeton Seminar on “What is a Real Sword”.
1976-1996 Taught Bladesmithing classes at Naples Mill School of Arts and Crafts, Peter’s Valley Crafts, Brookfield Craft Center and Penland School of Crafts.
1991-1994 Lectured on “Fighting Knife Design Concepts” and “Beating the Edged Weapon Paradox: Blade Construction Techniques Throughout Time and the World” at the Northeast Martial Arts Conference.
1983-1994 Organized, directed, demonstrated and lectured at the New England Bladesmiths Guild Ashokan Seminar.
1990, 1993 Demonstrated “Blade Forging and Heat Treatment” and lectured on “Basic Metallurgy” and “How Every Sword was Ever Made in Any Time and Any Place” at the Artist Blacksmith Association of North America Conferences.
1990-1992 Lectured on “Evolution of the Japanese Sword from the Kofun/Nara to the Edo Period”, “Evolution of Japanese Weapons and Warfare from the Kofun/Nara to the Edo Period” and “Functional Fighting Knife Design Concepts” at the annual Zen Do Kai Seminars in Cazenovia, NY.
1980-1982 Demonstrated blade forging and lectured on heat treatment at the NEBG Ashokan Seminar. Founding member of the NEBG.

PROFESSIONAL DEVELOPMENT
1996-2007 Built a prototype commercial heat treatment set up using digitally controlled furnaces and an agitated oil quench. I have been running experiments with a variety of carbon and alloy steels and making and testing blades of these materials. All these experiments and processes are documented and metallurgically examined by Metallurgical Consulting, Marcellus, NY.
1998 Research trip to Europe (Italy, Switzerland, Germany and England) with Dr. Lee Jones. Examined swords from the Celtic period through the Renaissance in museums and private collections.
1996 Research trip to England with noted arms collector and co-author of “Swords of the Viking Age” Dr. Lee Jones. Examined swords in museums and private collections and met with international arms authority and author Mr. Ewart Oakshotte.
1993 Research trip to Japan. Met with Mr. Takuo Onoue, prefectual metallurgist and Japanese swordexpert and swordsmith Mr. Kanemasa Oono.
1993 Completed Level One of the ASM Heat Treating Certificate of Achievement Program.
1992 ASM Course at Materials Park, Ohio “Heat Treating and Quenchant Techology” with Dr. George Totten and Dr. Charles Bates.
1991 Completed ASM Local Chapter Course “Stainless Steels”.
1988 Completed ASM Local Chapter Course “Metallurgy for the Non-Metallurgist”.
1985-1992 Studied Kali, Muay Thai and Jun Fun Kung Fu with Sifu Kevin Seaman.
1969-1971 Studied Three Weapon Classical Fencing with Maestro Oscar Kolombatovitch.

PROFESSIONAL MEMBERSHIPS
American Bladesmiths Society- Mastersmith Rating- 1983-2003
Artist-Blacksmith’s Association of North America
American Society of Materials International
Japanese Sword Society of the United States
Knifemakers Guild- Voting Member- 1983-2003
The Historical Metallurgical Society
 
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It was introduced as a new product for 1990, with parkerized finish. Not sure when it changed to epoxy, hence the "1990 to ???" on the first line above. By 93/94 it was epoxy, but the change could have happened before that.

Camillus bought Western in either 1991 or 1992...have seen both years mentioned online, but 1991 seems to appear more often.

It changed to AUS 8A and made in Japan in 2007.

I know at least some of them had epoxied blades prior to 1993. I have pictures of me with mine taken in early 92. I just can't remember exactly when I purchased it.
 
I have two SRK knives, one made in Japan and the other in Taiwan. (I lost a VG1 version hiking) The Taiwan version is a current production I purchased new recently. The Japanese version has “Cold Steel” “Japan” stamped on the base of the blade and came with a slightly different scabbard belt attachment. I bought it used. Anyone know what steel in the Japan version? Aus8 or CarbonV? I couldn’t figure out how to post pics.
 
When did you buy it? I bought my first SRK five years ago and it's made in Japan and AUS-8.

Ah,ok....you bought it used....that makes it a little more difficult but maybe you can find it out by comparing it to the pics of the different SRK models
 
I acquired it last week. The Taiwanese one is etched both Taiwan and SK-5 and my VG1 version had VG1 stamped on it. The Japanese one does not.
 
When did you buy it? I bought my first SRK five years ago and it's made in Japan and AUS-8.

Ah,ok....you bought it used....that makes it a little more difficult but maybe you can find it out by comparing it to the pics of the different SRK models
I have two SRK knives, one made in Japan and the other in Taiwan. (I lost a VG1 version hiking) The Taiwan version is a current production I purchased new recently. The Japanese version has “Cold Steel” “Japan” stamped on the base of the blade and came with a slightly different scabbard belt attachment. I bought it used. Anyone know what steel in the Japan version? Aus8 or CarbonV? I couldn’t figure out how to post pics.

Coated blade, Cordura Sheath?
 
Anyone know what steel in the Japan version? Aus8 or CarbonV?

Definitely not Carbon V, as those were all marked as Carbon V, and made in USA. I am not as familiar with the newer versions, but I'm guessing it has the black coating, since the only un-coated (satin) SRK was the San Mai III version. As far as I can tell, the only black-coated versions produced in Japan were AUS 8A and VG-1, but the VG-1 version calls it out on the blade, while the AUS 8A version does not. So yours should be AUS 8A.
 
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