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My LC200N Mule Rusted. How is that possible??

Discussion in 'Spyderco' started by neffarious, Feb 19, 2018.

  1. Rebel Nimrod

    Rebel Nimrod

    737
    Jan 23, 2014
    Ok, thanks for the update, I’m sure you will let us know if anything conclusive turns up!
     
  2. neffarious

    neffarious Basic Member Basic Member

    Jun 23, 2012
    @Sal Glesser I received the scales back yesterday, thank you. I sent a message to Halpern Titanium asking if they used sulfur in the production of their scales or hardware. I will follow up. Kate's letter asked what bodies of water this knife was exposed to. She didn't include a reply email or the like so i thought this would be the best place to answer the question as there is no PII or the like in the answers :). The knife was my primary fixed blade fishing knife. It's backed up by a SE Salt 2 and a SE Ladybug salt. It has been in the following bodies of water (the order is not indicated, It has been in Lake Howell more than the others:

    1. Sebastian Inlet - this is where it tea stained the first time, never fully submurged, just cut bait and had some splash.
    Lake Howell - freshwater lake submerged as it rides in my kayak. Other knives that have gone there include an s30v swick, did not rust, and a few folders including the Salt 2.
    Indian River - saltwater river -inter-coastal between the Atlantic and Florida mainland this is where I noticed the rust the second time after I got home. I rinsed it after use this time, which i only did because of the previous t stain experience, where i did not rinse it. The water was potable and did not smell like sulfur at all. It was pretty much standard city water.
    Atlantic ocean Fishing on the beach, used for cutting bait and was submerged as it was surf fishing
    Tampa Bay fishing on boat, not submerged, not sure where this fits in the timeline as i fish a lot and they sometimes start to blend. I think before both the first two
    Ponce Inlet - multiple trips on boat and on the jetty. never fully submerged, just splash and bait cutting.
    Sheath is Kydex

    Hope this helps.
     
  3. Sal Glesser

    Sal Glesser Moderator Moderator

    Dec 27, 1998
    Thanx much. It all helps. We're getting all of the info we can. We're working with a number of metallurgists. There is still much that is not known about these steels.

    sal
     
  4. neffarious

    neffarious Basic Member Basic Member

    Jun 23, 2012
    Are the scales safe to use or do I need to set them aside for now?
     
  5. Sal Glesser

    Sal Glesser Moderator Moderator

    Dec 27, 1998
    I would try using the knife without the scales and see what happens. Maybe a wrap?

    sal
     
    uxo2 likes this.
  6. neffarious

    neffarious Basic Member Basic Member

    Jun 23, 2012
    I have the set you guys sent me, I'll go with those for now :) I don't have a sheath for just a wrap unfortunately.
     
  7. koenigsegg

    koenigsegg

    147
    Dec 9, 2013
    The discoloration under the scales did seem to be centered around the titanium hardware. What's the potential voltage between titanium and LC200N? Chart is showing titanium at .055 volts and mild steel is -.440. Are you thinking this is part of the reason? So we need some LC200N mule hardware lol
     
    Ten_Mile_Knives likes this.
  8. Surfingringo

    Surfingringo Gold Member Gold Member

    May 25, 2013
    Hi nefarious. I would really like to see you test the knife for a month with no handle. I know it’s not very functional but it would be good for science. :D I feel fairly certain that you would see no corrosive effects (as I never have) which would confirm that what you saw was the result of exposure to the hardware. Another interesting test would be to purchase titanium hardware for the handle. That is something I am planning to test but I haven’t gotten around to it yet. It would be interesting to see if it would react to ti...I suspect not but I need to see for myself. I also plan to have some hardware dlc coated and test that on one of my folder prototypes in Lc200n.
     
  9. neffarious

    neffarious Basic Member Basic Member

    Jun 23, 2012
    I can splash it at best but I have a sit on top kayak and a decent amount of gear on it. I clip it to my PFD via kydex sheath. I have no other way to secure it. I know it's s a good test and all, but if it winds up at the bottom of the lake or inter-coastal, we have no measurable results. As a side note, it's the same hardware Spyderco ships with their scales. if anyone else is using the hardware they'd see the same results, no?
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2018
    uxo2 likes this.
  10. uxo2

    uxo2 Gold Member Gold Member

    Oct 3, 2013
    My LC200N Mule came in a few weeks ago and my Halpern scales and hardware arrived yesterday.

    I will let them soak in Pacific ocean water
    just for grins. I'm pretty sure what happened to OP was a fluke.

    My scales and hardware are from Spyderco.
    So we will see.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2018
  11. neffarious

    neffarious Basic Member Basic Member

    Jun 23, 2012
    How do you know the hardware is Ti? I couldn't find what it was made of anywhere. I just assumed it was 316L because it's pretty heavy and non reactive to salt.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2018
    uxo2 likes this.
  12. uxo2

    uxo2 Gold Member Gold Member

    Oct 3, 2013
    I will be contacting Halpern to verify.
    Unless someone already knows.
     
  13. neffarious

    neffarious Basic Member Basic Member

    Jun 23, 2012
    I hope they respond to you better than me :( If you hear from them ask if they use sulfur in their scale production.
     
  14. Surfingringo

    Surfingringo Gold Member Gold Member

    May 25, 2013
    The halpern hardware will definitely rust over time. I have found that when using the halpern scales and hardware I start developing rust under the handle within a week or two of mounting the knife on my kayak. Doesn’t matter if the steel is H1 or Lc200n. The hardware is stainless steel and will eventually show corrosion given enough exposure.
     
    Fattires and uxo2 like this.
  15. neffarious

    neffarious Basic Member Basic Member

    Jun 23, 2012
    So it's probably not 316l either then. hmmm, maybe a layer of some petroleum jelly or the like as a buffer?
     
  16. gadgetgeek

    gadgetgeek

    May 19, 2007
    I'd go for something that is a bit more high temp than PJ as the scales will warm in the sun, I'd want a lacquer, or something else that wouldn't run out and add to the knife becoming slick.
    I would have thought that even 316l hardware would show some staining over time, especially near a dissimilar metal, non of the hardware on the touring kayaks I maintain for work stay shiny. Not sure if its true corrosion, or just some form of staining.
     
  17. lieferung

    lieferung Basic Member Basic Member

    May 24, 2016
    What was the end result of this?
     
    Mo2 likes this.
  18. Sal Glesser

    Sal Glesser Moderator Moderator

    Dec 27, 1998
    We have sent a new knife to the OP and we're hoping he can get back to us with results. We have some theories, but nothing nailed down.

    sal
     
    MoDie likes this.
  19. neffarious

    neffarious Basic Member Basic Member

    Jun 23, 2012
    I haven't been out in the salt in a while. I had spinal surgery and was forbidden from doing anything until I was cleared which just happened Friday. Salt adventures began yesterday, but with the Chef not the Mule. Two weeks and the Mule will go off shore deep sea fishing. I'm going to treat it like I hate it when it comes to salt water. I also have a Caribbean on the way.
     
    mattmanyam likes this.
  20. lieferung

    lieferung Basic Member Basic Member

    May 24, 2016
    Thank you Sal, but I was actually asking about uxo2's results. But perhaps he was just being hyperbolical.
     
    uxo2 likes this.

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