Natural Outlaw died! I shocked...

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I'm sorry but I'm disappointed, it's a Busse not a made in China piece of s**t!!
surface hardening really sounds poor for buffing, perhaps the crinkled coating is the secret to infi I don't know but if Busse has sold that many blades what of is to replace a hand full in 30 years!
is it really worth and x on the outstanding Busse reputation and outstanding warranty?
I don't know about all of you but the reason I don't hesitate to pay sometimes up to 3 times more for a Busse blade is because of 2 things superior steel and superior warranty!!!
 
tao_m said:
I'm sorry but I'm disappointed, it's a Busse not a made in China piece of s**t!!
surface hardening really sounds poor for buffing, perhaps the crinkled coating is the secret to infi I don't know but if Busse has sold that many blades what of is to replace a hand full in 30 years!
is it really worth and x on the outstanding Busse reputation and outstanding warranty?
I don't know about all of you but the reason I don't hesitate to pay sometimes up to 3 times more for a Busse blade is because of 2 things superior steel and superior warranty!!!
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How is this an "x" on Busse's rep? Jerry offered to cover the entire cost of the knife at its original price ....he shouldn't have to cover inflation prices.
 
He ain't asking for a MOAB ! He is asking for a comparable replacement , that sounds fair to me but we all know Busse blades appreciate after going of the market how is this guys fault that Busse can't reproduce one of their own blade models?

you can try to hang me by the balls for expressing my disappointment but the truth is that he did absolutely nothing wrong besides buying a faulty knife!
As far as I know I have the same right to expressed my reasons for disappointment than all of you to express your satisfaction!
 
DanBo82 said:
Jerry hasn't been back, he said he was going to explain a little more.

I'm interested too, if you have to sustain temperatures over 900F to alter the heat treat... My guess is it's just a "Monday" knife (I think I've gotten a couple, might have been my poor striking form, though) and I think dude got off pretty good, considering he didn't think it was still under warranty. Not being able to get the same knife sucks if that's what you had your heart set on, but I highly doubt they're just being stubborn, if they could make you the same knife I'd hope they would after honoring the warranty (regardless if they should have or not).

I'm with Andy, a good warranty don't mean jack when you have to rely on something right then, right there.

I buy Busse knives for the proprietary materials, mostly, but the warranty too. They're not always fast, but they're not a mass production, fast food restaurant either. Just bug'em if they're taking too long for your liking, they won't yell at you.

I think the real problem is the guy only has one knife to play with. That's why you always need a backup. Hell, I'll have two similar knives just in case I wear one dull before I have time to sharpen...

Jerry is right, pretty cool you hardly ever see something like this and I think that's the important testament, regardless of why it happened.

I only got one question for the OP, why chop with such a small knife???
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I do not see the NOE as a small knife. I have chopped with a BAE with no trouble.
 
I am allowed Jaxx, I am russki as well.. :)

Valerii - elsi hochesh pogovorit', napishi mne..

Jaxx said:
Uncalled for. Stick to the topic, please.

No need to crack a joke at the expense of a Russian who, BTW, is doing a better job at trying to communicate with us in English than some of us Americans are able to do with English as a primary language...let alone trying to communicate in Russian.
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Jaxx said:
Uncalled for. Stick to the topic, please.

No need to crack a joke at the expense of a Russian who, BTW, is doing a better job at trying to communicate with us in English than some of us Americans are able to do with English as a primary language...let alone trying to communicate in Russian.
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You are obviously not hip to the whole "in soviet russia" internet meme thang. It's not an insult. Just a popular joke. Kinda like Chuck Norris jokes. I do some work for a company that is only Russians. Super funny people there. They have "….in soviet Russia" posters all over the walls.
 
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I gotta say I agree with both sides. Busse doesn't exactly shy away from the fact that there is a huge secondary market. They almost encourage it. That being said they also tout the best warranty in the business. I get that it would be a HUGE pain to shut down production to make this one blade for some guy that bought his knife used after it was altered. In every other market on earth this wouldn't be an issue. But Busse and crew know these knives go up in value partially because of their business model. They go out of their way to encourage hype by only releasing blades in limited batches for short periods of time. It help grow that cult following. I personally am a victim to the hype and I don't care who knows it. Now if the guy had been intentionally trying to break the blade (like someone on youtube that I think I read somewhere even got his blade credited) I would understand voiding or limiting the warranty. I don't know anything about heat treating. I don't know how easy it would be to buff a blade to the point that it would ruin it's abilities to perform basic tasks. Then again who among us was there to see if the blade was abused? I think it's absolutely great that Busse is willing to offer any credit at all. I have loads of faith in them and I trust they would take care of me if something were to happen to any of my knives. I don't know any other company that would do anything in this situation. BUT……… If I owned Busse (I own 2 small businesses so I know a lot about keeping people happy) I would do a little more to make sure the public sees them going way out of their way. This guy want's a comparable blade. It's that simple. The money isn't the main issue. He isn't asking for the exact knife. Maybe they could offer him first shot at a similar style prototype knife or maybe a change at an anniversary BM without being in on a Ganza. And he can use his credit for it. Maybe the custom shop has a steel heart blank laying around and he can pay the difference? Just a few options that I think he would go for. Yes it's above and beyond the already above and beyond that Busse has offered. But those little things keep people believing in the company and it would keep Busses record of 100% satisfaction. Great to hear this is such a rare issue but why not keep the feedback at 100% positive while you can? Just my opinion as a business owner.
 
Just my .02 cents. If it were me and I spent what we can only assume was a decent amount of hard earned money on a perceived good condition second hand Busse and it broke under what is being described as moderate use I would certainly appreciate it if Busse offered to replace it with a comparable current model. A lot of what if's and assumptions thrown in there but playing devil's advocate I can see where the OP is coming from. At the end of the day if Busse offered the TGLB as a replacement and it resolved the situation I'd consider it a win from both sides. Hope it works out for all involved.
 
For anyone to expect/request/even bring up the idea for busse to cover more then the original cost on anything they have ever offered, esp considering the circumstances in this instance, seems a bit ludicrous to me.
 
dericdesmond said:
For anyone to expect/request/even bring up the idea for busse to cover more then the original cost on anything they have ever offered, esp considering the circumstances in this instance, seems a bit ludicrous to me.
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I expect you to warrant all of your crap too, Eric!! ;) (see you at blade)

It's too bad this customer isn't impressed by Busse's solution, it seems way more than fair to me. I may start beating up more of my safe queens just because of this thread!!
 
Without reading up on the wording of Busse Combat's warranty, because I'm too lazy, I am very familiar with shop credit being the resolution for the original purchase price if the knife is no longer available. It's the only reasonable way that Busse Combat could offer such a warranty.

That is what is being offered, so Busse Combat is following its warranty procedure.

There is no doubt that the knife blade has been modified by grinding, more than just stripping the coating. This voids the warranty on the blade as far as I am aware of the warranty and from comments made in the forum over the years, and rightly so. It has been modified outside of Busse Combat's control.

The issue of whether the modification has caused the damage or not is of interest to us of course, but given that Busse Combat has offered to honour the warranty anyway, it's a moot point as far as what happens with regards to the owner getting a replacement knife.

Busse Combat has done exactly what it says on the tin, even if in this case it might not have to. That is excellent customer service and standing behind one's product if I've ever seen it.

As has been repeatedly stated, the coolest thing here is how much interest has been caused by an actual failure of a Busse blade (and not necessarily a faulty one initially), because it is such a rare event.

I'll still buy Busse knives, still beat on them, and still know that I have one of the best hard-use knives on the planet with the best customer support should it ever be needed. I very much doubt that I will ever need that backup, otherwise I wouldn't be here. I want a knife I can rely on, not a warranty I can rely on to replace it. Here though I have the best of both worlds, and that is a rare thing!

Thank you Jerry and the crew!
 
I like Jerry and the Busse Crew. They have always done the right thing. And, their warranty is one of the best.
Maybe we can lock this thread soon.
 
Lycosa said:
I like Jerry and the Busse Crew. They have always done the right thing. And, their warranty is one of the best.
Maybe we can lock this thread soon.
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No need to lock a thread until a suitable resolution has been provided for OP.
 
Thank you Cobalt.
I was under the impression that this matter was resolved.
Carry on!
 
I'll take dibs on dudes credit if he doesn't want it. The Busse combat knives are a bit outside of my budget but i would love to own one. All joking aside - OP has been treated more than fair. The resolutions posted in this thread make me proud to be a buckeye.
 
Well you got your original retail price and your secondary market price and your company price.
 
tao_m said:
He ain't asking for a MOAB ! He is asking for a comparable replacement , that sounds fair to me but we all know Busse blades appreciate after going of the market how is this guys fault that Busse can't reproduce one of their own blade models?

you can try to hang me by the balls for expressing my disappointment but the truth is that he did absolutely nothing wrong besides buying a faulty knife!
As far as I know I have the same right to expressed my reasons for disappointment than all of you to express your satisfaction!
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I can certainly see, and to some extent sympathize, with this user's predicament. The thing is though that he paid an after-market price for a no-longer-in-production blade which had been modified. If he didn't know it was modified, or it was sold as unmodified, that issue is between him and the seller. As a company, even Busse, you can't assume liability for anything anyone will do to a blade. The lack of "outrage" at whoever did modify the knife baffles me a bit, because ultimately it would seem they're the one to blame no?

Proof of purchase is only relevant when dealing with a retailer or distributor which sells multiple products. If you're the source of a product, and you sell exclusively direct, there is no need to "prove" you or someone else purchased the product because you know where it came from regardless. Target on the other hand very much does need a proof of purchase for that ugly digital camera your wife bought you, because its sold at multiple different stores so they need to know they're not refunding/offering store credit for something you bought elsewhere.

The difficulty with asking for a "comparable replacement" is defining "comparable." Who defines what is comparable? Thats why its necessary to simply offer a shop credit for the original purchase price. Comparable is defined as any knife the customer so chooses equal to the original blade's purchase price. It is the only definitively comparable measure in this instance. That said, had this been a used but unmodified Egro Natural Outlaw, I think it would be more reasonable to request the current gen natural outlaw be considered a satisfactory replacement. In this case though I think Busse's offer has been sufficient.

Again I don't think anyone is trying to hang you by the balls, but I do believe you're assigning fault, producing an over-hardened knife, to Busse where it is not deserved. Where does the knife modifier come into play here? If the buyer feels he was slighted, and that the shop credit good on any production or Busse Custom Shop product, is insufficient if I were him I might turn to whoever I bought it from to make up the difference. Just my 2c.
 
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.... I would say this is NOT correct, most pay the money because of the PRODUCT not the warranty.
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Obviously great product was an implicit part of my reasoning. The rest of your points are sound and I agree with them. I don't want anyone to take my comment as a slur on Busse. Quite the opposite. My point was that great companies are held to a higher standard. This is particularly valid in this case where toughness, great materials and heat treatment are a key selling point, AND I think it's fair to say that 300-500 dollars is a large (not the same as saying too large) sum of money for a knife.

I also think it's fair to point out that this whole case is an interesting one, and the eight pages of comments suggest that I'm not the only one. This is partly as has been pointed out because a Busse failure of any kind is extremely rare. But it's also partly because I think many of us are keen to see how the warranty situation plays out.

I had always imagined that if a Busse knife broke on me that either the shop would try to fix it, or replace it with the closest model from their range. For example if I broke an old SHBM, then I don't think it would be unreasonable that it be replaced with a more modern BM. This is not the same as Busse having to adjust for ninflationas some have suggested, because in this scenario I would still be about 500 dollars short of my outlay on the SHBM, and yet I still think this would be a 'fair' outcome.
 
This thread was an eye opener (for me at least). Busse products are top notch and their customer service has gone above and beyond for this customer. What I found interesting is the whole "shop credit" thing. I agree Jerry should not be held responsible for the appreciation of the knife's value do to limited supply. I did erroneously think they would crank out a replacement of my exact model knife if it failed. I feel I will probably NEVER need the Busse warranty and will continue to grow my collection but I will NEVER buy on the secondary market again unless it is being sold for the original shop price or less. I will also never sell a knife for more than it's original cost and have locked my thread and withdrawn any knives I had for sale. With that said, I cant wait for the mini Team Gemini to come out.

Frank
 
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