Recommendation? New folder for edc/self defense

[mt666tm]

I vote an Emerson of some sort, because I love them. Can't go wrong with a CQC-7

That said, I just gifted a good friend of mine a ZT-0630 for his first knife. Out of the box it has more hand presence than a typical Emerson due to the full Ti frame lock, and it's very well made to boot. He LOVES it and is looking into buying more knives now (mission accomplished ). I recommended a PM2 for his second.

 

[McFeeli]

A Yojimbo sounds to me like your best bet. It's one of the few(only?) knives mentioned here that was built specifically for self defense. A lot of the attributes it has are there for user control in a sketchy situation.

If you want an EDC type knife, PM2 all the way, self defense = Yojimbo.

 

[unwisefool]

So my birthday is coming up and I'm getting a few bucks plus I've been saving up and I've been looking for a new folder. Im stuck between a paramilitary 2 or emerson. I ignored spyderco for a while till i bought a manix 2 a few months ago and fell in love with them again. And I've never had an emerson before and have been wanting one. I own a zt 0620 and 0630 and i love them but i want the real thing now. I've had my eye on a gentleman jim or bulldog. Maybe a cqc-7 but i have to check it out in person first. My new folder will be mainly for edc but also self defense. I know an emerson commander is popular but not really my taste. Any suggestions ? And i feel like if i dont pull the trigger on an emerson now when i have a little more to spend i won't buy one for awhile. But i also want a pm2 soon too so I'm in a dilemma

I'd stick with the ZT over the regular Emerson, but that's mostly because I like framelocks and the overall heft of the knife compared to an Emerson. Also don't like chisel grinds

 

[BladeScout]

I own a PM2 and also own 7 or 8 Emersons, and I'd choose the PM2. Better all-around user *for me*.

Also, SD with a knife does not necessarily equate with 'knife fighting' or dueling. I mention this because some who reply to these types of threads tend to associate SD with a knife as knife vs. knife dueling.

Jim

Ohh, the lawyers are going to have a field day with you.

I can hear the prosecutor in the court room;

"The police detained Mr James Y, as he during the outbreak of fisticuffs in front of the bar suddenly produced a knife and stabbed, cut and sliced another patron.

The knife is a model called Para Military and is clearly an offensive weapon aimed at customers with military fighting aspirations.

James Y clearly brought an offensive weapon to town anticipating trouble ..., nay, dare I say he even went looking for it and eacalated the relatively harmless exchange of blows by producing a knife hitherto concealed on his body."

People can scoff at the above but be prepared for any twist in a court room and for the other side to use any and all tools in the inventory - that includes shining a light on the 'tactical/offensive' name of the knife used etc etc.

Multiply the scrutiny times a 100 with a dedicated fighting knife a la Yo2 etc

 

[James Y]

Ohh, the lawyers are going to have a field day with you.

I can hear the prosecutor in the court room;

"The police detained Mr James Y, as he during the outbreak of fisticuffs in front of the bar suddenly produced a knife and stabbed, cut and sliced another patron.

The knife is a model called Para Military and is clearly an offensive weapon aimed at customers with military fighting aspirations.

James Y clearly brought an offensive weapon to town anticipating trouble ..., nay, dare I say he even went looking for it and eacalated the relatively harmless exchange of blows by producing a knife hitherto concealed on his body."

People can scoff at the above but be prepared for any twist in a court room and for the other side to use any and all tools in the inventory - that includes shining a light on the 'tactical/offensive' name of the knife used etc etc.

Multiply the scrutiny times a 100 with a dedicated fighting knife a la Yo2 etc

Let me clarify:
I am NOT in any way condoning carrying a knife for SD. I am saying that people have used knives in legitimate SD that had NOTHING AT ALL to do with knife dueling...i.e,,disparity of force between attacker and defender.

Ironically, I actually agree with your post, but am a bit surprised you chose to attack me with it.

Jim

 

[Dr Heelhook]

It's funny, just before the Para2 came out I was planning on getting an Emerson. I had my sights on a CQC13 (the Bowie blade) then the Para2 came out and I just realized that I need this knife because it's the ultimate folding knife, so that became the priority. And in a way it is, it's an extremely versatile folder. The compression lock is a little more right handed friendly IMO, so if you're right handed, I'd probably recommend the Para2. Emersons are excellent also. Some people think they're expensive for what you get in terms of materials and so on, but come on, it's an Emerson. Just think about that the CQC7 is a full chisel grind, with all that that means.

 

[BladeScout]

Let me clarify:
I am NOT in any way condoning carrying a knife for SD. I am saying that people have used knives in legitimate SD that had NOTHING AT ALL to do with knife dueling...i.e,,disparity of force between attacker and defender.

Ironically, I actually agree with your post, but am a bit surprised you chose to attack me with it.

Jim

It was not meant as an attack but to stress the potential implications.

I should have written 'the defendant' instead of your forum name in the example used to illustrate my point of the dangers of bringing a knife to a fist fight.

How ever my point still stands

 

[DocJD]

The "SD" part of this farce needs to be in Practical / Tactical .

The particular selection of a specific knife (or any weapon ) for SD / fighting is trivial and meaningless without significant knowledge , training , and practice in it's use for that purpose . Otherwise , it's ridiculous and dangerous to equip with no ability to FIGHT !

 

[BubbaGump]

Ohh, the lawyers are going to have a field day with you.

I can hear the prosecutor in the court room;

"The police detained Mr James Y, as he during the outbreak of fisticuffs in front of the bar suddenly produced a knife and stabbed, cut and sliced another patron.

The knife is a model called Para Military and is clearly an offensive weapon aimed at customers with military fighting aspirations.

James Y clearly brought an offensive weapon to town anticipating trouble ..., nay, dare I say he even went looking for it and eacalated the relatively harmless exchange of blows by producing a knife hitherto concealed on his body."

People can scoff at the above but be prepared for any twist in a court room and for the other side to use any and all tools in the inventory - that includes shining a light on the 'tactical/offensive' name of the knife used etc etc.

Multiply the scrutiny times a 100 with a dedicated fighting knife a la Yo2 etc

Yes. It is best to not to state you carry a knife as a defensive weapon if that is what you actually carry a blade for. In most states and jurisdictions it is illegal to carry a blade of any kind as a weapon, regardless of size, shape, type, or intent. Even CCW holders in most states are not legally allowed to carry a blade as a weapon. Doesn't matter if it is intended as a 'defensive' weapon. If questioned by ANYBODY and asked why you are carrying it and you say you carry it for self defense, you just implicated yourself. "Officer, that guy over there said he carries a weapon around in his pocket." It's worse if the knife is fully concealed and it is a larger blade. Difference then is you are looking at a felony instead of at best a misdemeanor citation. Intent is 9/10 of the law. Never ever say anything like 'weapon' or 'self defense' when it comes to edged tools. The stock answer should always be, "It's just a regular tool that I carry with me every day."

And most people who carry a knife primarily as a weapon are more likely to be arrested for brandishing if they did pull it out in an altercation. Good way to easily find yourself in lots of hot water. Unless your life is in immediate danger and you have no means of escape, the deployment or use of a knife would be considered deadly use of force.

 

[lieferung]

Yes. It is best to not to state you carry a knife as a defensive weapon if that is what you actually carry a blade for. In most states and jurisdictions it is illegal to carry a blade of any kind as a weapon, regardless of size, shape, type, or intent. Even CCW holders in most states are not legally allowed to carry a blade as a weapon. Doesn't matter if it is intended as a 'defensive' weapon. If questioned by ANYBODY and asked why you are carrying it and you say you carry it for self defense, you just implicated yourself. "Officer, that guy over there said he carries a weapon around in his pocket." It's worse if the knife is fully concealed and it is a larger blade. Difference then is you are looking at a felony instead of at best a misdemeanor citation. Intent is 9/10 of the law. Never ever say anything like 'weapon' or 'self defense' when it comes to edged tools. The stock answer should always be, "It's just a regular tool that I carry with me every day."

2008 People v. Richards established, in that NY jurisdiction at least, that merely carrying a knife for the purpose of self defense is reasonable. I agree though that it is best not to actually say that in most everywhere else.

 

[BladeScout]

This is rapidly moving into PracTac territory but as touched upon above; if anybody has read the writings of Massad Ayoob, he has described how a knife or gun can land you in hot water in a court room by its very name/brand alone.

Dont be in court after having pulled a 'Kut Throat Murder Knife Company Tactical Ninja Belly Slicer' on somebody or there will be a price to pay.

 

[stabman]

You ask whether the Yo2 is an SD knife. It most certainly is and one of the better ones.

It's great for defending yourself from boxes.
It very much looks like a utility knife, and indeed, it works great for utility tasks.

I defended my way into more than one box with mine.
Some of those boxes contained other knives.

 

[BubbaGump]

2008 People v. Richards established, in that NY jurisdiction at least, that merely carrying a knife for the purpose of self defense is reasonable. I agree though that it is best not to actually say that in most everywhere else.

Its usually city by city statues. But most do not allow it as it is considered a deadly weapon. And most of the time, it is concealed on your person so the charges are aggravated. Certain jurisdictions are obvious---Chicago, New York City, LA, etc..you get caught with a blade, especially one over 3 inches, and say you carry it as a weapon, you're likely doing some jail time and a felony following you around for the rest of your life. Some knives are automatically designated weapons--karambits, stilettos, etc...you wont be able to argue daily user..you will be calling a bail bondsman.

 

[lieferung]

Its usually city by city statues. But most do not allow it as it is considered a deadly weapon. And most of the time, it is concealed on your person so the charges are aggravated. Certain jurisdictions are obvious---Chicago, New York City, LA, etc..you get caught with a blade, especially one over 3 inches, and say you carry it as a weapon, you're likely doing some jail time and a felony following you around for the rest of your life. Some knives are automatically designated weapons--karambits, stilettos, etc...you wont be able to argue daily user..you will be calling a bail bondsman.

Does Chicago have a karambit statute? Lol way back in my early knife days I actually took one with me, I was in Chinatown late at night by myself.

 

[jill jackson]

At least my state allows the carry of any knife with a CDW permit. Hard to believe so many don't. They trust you with a loaded concealed handgun, but not a knife?

 

[marcinek]

Ultimately, unless you are trained in some specific knife SD and have a knife specifically designed for that, like a Spydero PKal, then in the incredibly rare event that you are forced to use your knife for SD, pretty much all folders are going to be equally (in)effective.

So get one that works well the 99.999999999% of the time, when you are not in a knife fight.

Like, here's a pro tip: you can stab somebody with a Delica. Can you believe that?!?



(Or just use a grocery store steak knife as a dedicated SD knife. Sometimes grocery store knives fall in the sewer or river, and if they do, no big loss.)

 

[BladeScout]

It's great for defending yourself from boxes.
It very much looks like a utility knife, and indeed, it works great for utility tasks.

I defended my way into more than one box with mine.
Some of those boxes contained other knives.

Yep.

I got a couple of Yo2s and even though I thought it looked ungainly and odd prior to buying a Yo2, it instantly moved up the list of knives to almost rival my modded Opi #12 as a number one carboard box killer.

It also excel at opening mail, boxes et al.

I dont plan on getting into a knife fight but modestly admit to having succesfully vanquished everal largeish cardboard boxes in my time.

 

[James Y]

It was not meant as an attack but to stress the potential implications.

I should have written 'the defendant' instead of your forum name in the example used to illustrate my point of the dangers of bringing a knife to a fist fight.

How ever my point still stands

Not a problem.
I probably should have clarified in my first post that I do not condone carrying a knife specifically for SD, and that the PM2 suits my purposes better than the Emerson knives for the everyday uses I put my knives to. If I need a knife for possible light prying duty, I'll use something like the large screwdriver on my SAK, or my mini-prybar, which are also always with me.

In terms of SD, I'm picturing the instance of the woman whose house was broken into while she was home, and the home invader tried to rape her (or was raping her). She ended up defending herself with a knife, which resulted in his death and reportedly no charges for her. BTW, the knife in question was shown in a photo on the news; it was a cheap Gerber linerlock.

Jim

 

[BladeScout]

Not a problem.
I probably should have clarified in my first post that I do not condone carrying a knife specifically for SD, and that the PM2 suits my purposes better than the Emerson knives for the everyday uses I put my knives to. If I need a knife for possible light prying duty, I'll use something like the large screwdriver on my SAK, or my mini-prybar, which are also always with me.

Squared away and further more we agree on the points you state re carrying a knife for SD ... or rather not carrying a knife for SD

In terms of SD, I'm picturing the instance of the woman whose house was broken into while she was home, and the home invader tried to rape her. She ended up defending herself with a knife, which resulted in his death and reportedly no charges for her. BTW, the knife in question was shown in a photo on the news; it was a cheap Gerber linerlock.

Jim

Yes, in a pinch one is not bound to be picky nor contemplate where one did put down that dedicated fighting knife.

We have the luxury of sitting here and debating various hypothetical SD scenarios and dedicated quality SD knives like PPT, P'Kal, Yo2 etc - but when the chips are down, anything will do.

For all our posts about the quality SD knives, the reality is, that kitchen knives have killed a bunch of people and there is hardly a more effective knife than a large kitchen/butchers knife, a big pointy knife which most have in their kitchen knife inventory.

Ironically, we are full circle, for that is basically the knife Jim Bowie killed several men with in the Sandbar Fight and which laid the groundwork for countless fighting knives and a knife industry.

 

[Alberta Ed]

Emerson's chisel grind simply does not cut as efficiently as Spyderco's flat grind, and the steel (CM-154) is a step below the steels that Spyderco offers in the PM2.